Posted: Tue 15 Mar 2005 01:06 Post subject: White Supremacy in Latin America
(at least Argentina - the groups as not necessarily Argentinean in origin though )
ARGENTINA HAVEN FOR RACIST WEBSITES: Because of strict censorship laws in their countries, many European and Latin American ultranationalist and neo-nazi groups are finding a haven for website hosting in Argentina. Currently, there are approximately 3,000 websites hosted on servers based in the South American country. One reason for the proliferation of nazi sites is the perpetual slump the peso is in which makes the country a cheap place for out of country organizations to set up hosting facilities. Another reason, and probably more important, is the fact that Internet sites are guaranteed not to be censured. This stems from a 1997 decree by the Argentine president that forbid, explicitly, the government from getting involved in any aspect of internet information.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Sun 12 Jun 2005 04:42 Post subject: Re: White Supremacy in Latin America
Hi Liana,
Perhaps there is also a more subtle reason for that to happens in Argertina.
I am Chilean, so I am well aware how fascism has acted in the Southern Cone of South America, in countries like Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay and Brazil.
There have been several political movements in here with fascist attitudes, but not only that. In this part of the world the Nazi movement have had a lot of success. There have been small but important Nazi movements in here since the 30s. And there are still people that admire Hitler in here.
Part of the reason for that it is a large migration of German settlers that came to this part of the world at the end of the XIX century and up to the middle of the XX century. There are millions of Germans in the region and some of brough the Nazi ideas with them.
The local population, although not as white as Germans, and with some degree of admixture with Natives, was very much accepted into the Nazi movement thanks to the trick to make them believe they were a superior race, because they descended of the best Natives and the best Gauls, forming a superior race that was called to dominate South America and the Western Hemisphere, with the help of Nazi Germans.
Those Nazi movements even attempted some bloody coups to take power during the time of Nazi Germany, but they failed. Some ideologist exist even today, including chilean philosopher Miguel Serrano, who consider Hitler a messiah.
After the Second World War the Nazi criminals escaped mainly to South America where they were protected by local Nazis and changed identities.
The Nazi presence is still alive once in a while by the beating of a foreign Black person, a Native peruvian, or and Asian that was at the wrong place and at the wrong time. There are also skin heads in here that threat foreigners of immigrants, who they consider inferiors, and that have also killed some gays.
However, they sometimes have made major attacks like the '94 bombing attack to the Jewish community center in Buenos Aires, which left 80 people dead and injuried 300.
Even today one can buy Hitler's works like Main Kampf, which are sold without restriction in the streets.
Fortunately, Nazi movement in the Southern cone has always being minoritary. However, there is a certain simpathy in the people for the idea of a superior mixed race of Europeans and Indians. A dangerous idea indeed, specially when the main allies are Nordish Nazis.
Posted: Sat 18 Jun 2005 02:57 Post subject: Argentina's Missing Black Population
There is irony here:
washingtonpost.com
In Buenos Aires, Researchers Exhume Long-Unclaimed African Roots
By Monte Reel
Washington Post Foreign Service
Thursday, May 5, 2005; A14
BUENOS AIRES -- Their disappearance is one of Argentina's most enduring mysteries. In 1810, black residents accounted for about 30 percent of the population of Buenos Aires. By 1887, however, their numbers had plummeted to 1.8 percent.
So where did they go? The answer, it turns out, is nowhere.
Popular myth has offered two historical hypotheses: a yellow fever epidemic in 1871 that devastated black urban neighborhoods, and a brutal war with Paraguay in the 1860s that put many black Argentines on the front lines.
But two new studies are challenging those old notions, using distinct methods: a door-to-door census to determine how many Argentines consider themselves black, and an analysis of DNA samples to detect traces of African ancestry in those who consider themselves white.
The results are only partially compiled, but they suggest that many of the black Argentines did not vanish; they just faded into the mixed-race populace and became lost to demography. According to some researchers, as many as 10 percent of Buenos Aires residents are partly descended from black Argentines but have no idea.
"People for years have accepted the idea that there are no black people in Argentina," said Miriam Gomes, a professor of literature at the University of Buenos Aires who is part black and considers herself Afro-Argentine. "Even the schoolbooks here accepted this as a fact. But where did that leave me?"
It left her as part of a practically invisible fringe, a group whose very existence had been snubbed by the country's early statesmen. The nation aggressively courted "the reviving spirit of European civilization" -- in the words of 19th-century Argentine social architect Juan Bautista Alberdi -- and promoted an image of a European country transplanted on South American soil.
"Argentina was interested in presenting itself as a white country," said George Reid Andrews, a history professor at the University of Pittsburgh who has specialized in black history in Latin America. "Its ideologues and writers put a great emphasis on the yellow fever epidemic and the war, and it was feasible to pretend that the black population had simply disappeared as immigration exploded."
Estimates of the current population of blacks in Buenos Aires are essentially wild guesses, partly because the Argentine government has not reflected African racial ancestry in its census counts in well over a century.
But Gomes is among the group of scholars and scientists who want to take a closer look at today's black culture in Argentina, which they believe will help them form a clearer picture of what happened in the past.
Funded in part by the World Bank and assisted by Argentina's census bureau, the group launched a limited census of various neighborhoods in the capital last month.
First, they asked whether any people in the house considered themselves Afro-Argentine, then they asked whether anyone in the house had any black ancestors. In neighborhoods with historically high concentrations of black residents, they conducted more detailed surveys of religious practice, diet and social organization -- an attempt to measure the influence of African culture there.
The results won't be analyzed until later this year. Diego Masello, a professor with the National University of the Third of February, said the thorniest challenge of the census has been eliciting honest answers -- or any answers at all.
"In some cases, the census-takers reported that residents who visibly had some African traits, even some who appeared completely black, absolutely refused to participate," said Masello, who is helping direct the census.
Gomes said such responses have been frustrating, but illustrative.
"Without a doubt, racial prejudice is great in this society, and people want to believe that they are white," Gomes said. "Here, if someone has one drop of white blood, they call themselves white."
But personal definitions do not count when analyzing DNA, which is what a group of scientists from the University of Buenos Aires and Oxford University in England did earlier this year. After collecting blood samples at a local hospital, they searched for genetic markers that indicate African ancestry. The results, to be published this year in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, suggested that 10 percent of those who identified themselves as white were, in part, descendants of black Argentines.
"A lot of people were very surprised by this," said Francisco R. Carnese, a geneticist at the University of Buenos Aires and co-author of the study. "When you walk around Buenos Aires, you don't see signs of African ancestry. But you see it in the genes."
Carnese said there was also a growing desire among Argentines to figure out their heritage -- one reason that multiple studies are trying to shed light on the same thing, he said. For most Argentines, that means delving into the cultures of Italy, England and Germany, but Africa also deserves consideration, he said.
The near-invisibility of black culture and roots in Argentina has been a striking contrast with neighboring Brazil, which once imported millions of African slaves and has a large, high-profile Afro-Brazilian community.
Africans had a strong hand in shaping Brazilian culture: samba music, the Lenten festival of carnival and African religions that have melded with Roman Catholicism to form hybrid systems of faith. Even the national dish, a black bean staple called feijoada , is popularly credited to 16th-century slaves.
In Argentina, partly in response to the new research, black interest groups have started promoting what they say is a strong African influence on some of the traditions most closely associated with Argentina. There was little slave trade with Argentina; many Africans who ended up there had originally been imported to Brazil.
"The first paintings of people dancing the tango are of people of African descent," Gomes said.
The asado -- the traditional Argentine barbecue that includes glands, livers and other organs from cows -- also was influenced by blacks who collected the parts that the Argentine cowboys, or gauchos, threw away, according to Masello.
The census-takers hope their work will inspire the government to include African ancestry in its next census in 2011 -- a decision that Gomes said she believed would go a long way in acknowledging the role of Africa in today's Argentina.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Sat 18 Jun 2005 13:25 Post subject: Re: Argentina's Missing Indian Population
triguy wrote:
By 1887, however, their numbers had plummeted to 1.8 percent.
Afrocentric circle insist that Argentina is hidding its Black past. It seems is important for Afrocentrics to show Blacks are present everywhere and have targeted Mexico and Argentina for that goal. However, one should believe in facts, whatever are they.
The truth is the contribution of Blacks to the genetic pool of Argentina is too small. In the past there were some Blacks in the country but today the small minorities of Asians, Jews or Arabs are much imporant in numbers. As far as I know I have never seen a Black or Mulatto of Argentinean descendent. Argentina is a "White" country. Actually, there are less Black people in there than in Italy, France, England of these days or any country of Europe. That happens because large waves of Europeans immigrants arrived to Argentina during all the XIX century and half the XX. In 1930, for example, almost half the population of Argentina was European born.
The irony of Argentina came from another race: Indians. For most of the time the Argentineas have claimmed they have not Indians in his country, but that's not the truth. Genetic analysis has shown that about 50% of the mtDNA of Argentineans is Native American. As a whole Argentineans have about 10% of Native American DNA. Also there are still 500.000 ethnic Native Americans in the country.
The results, to be published this year in the American Journal of Physical Anthropology, suggested that 10 percent of those who identified themselves as white were, in part, descendants of black Argentines.
The way this statement is phrased and the context in which it is presented make it unpersuasive. Worse, it is Afrocentrist. First, the genetic findings are misleading. Second, the implied conclusion makes little sense.
The genetic findings are misleading. I eagerly await the study's publication, but I predict that the actual fraction of Argentinians with any detectable subSaharan markers in their DNA is closer to 50 percent. (After all, for White Americans the number is 30 percent.) I predict that the 10 percent cited above is due to someone's arbitrary cutoff in just how much subSaharan DNA was considered "significant." While 30 percent of White Americans have two percent subSaharan DNA or more, if you ask how many have five percent African DNA or more, that fraction of the White U.S. population falls to 10 percent. And if you ask how many White Americans have ten percent or more African DNA, the answer is perhaps one person in a hundred. And the number of White Americans with 20 percent African DNA or more is one in a thousand, and so forth. Apples-to-apples.
The implied conclusion makes little sense. A professor of literature suggests that her findings mean that many Argentinians who self-identify as White are "really Black" without knowing it. Invisible Blackness in Argentina, as anywhere else in the universe, is an arbitrarily applied socio-political label. The only question is, "Is the label self-applied or is it applied by some authority?" If she is saying that someone can voluntarily self-label himself or herself as Black without realizing what they have done, then she should explain the psychology of such a hallucination. If (as is more likely) she is saying that in her wisdom and authority as a teacher of literature, she decrees them to be Black involuntarily, then she is living in the wrong nation and in the wrong century.
Joined: 04 May 2005 {Posts: 2021 } Location: santiago, chile
Posted: Sun 19 Jun 2005 00:24 Post subject: Nazis in South America
Hi Frank,
Very good reply, indeed.
As a natural of the Southern Cone of South America I have witness how the Nazi movements have affected our peoples. And, like most people that live here, I am against Nazism with all my will.
Nazism is a racist doctrine that try to convince people race is the important thing, above all else. And people in the Northern Hemisphere believe is a illness that affects only Nordish people. That's wrong. Nazism has the power to affect many other people as well. As an example we can mention the racist doctrines of Japanese during the Second World War, and its extermination campain against Chineses and Koreans.
Although Jews and Blacks have been the main targets of the Nazis, it does not mean those groups can't develop similar ideologies by themselves. The attitudes of Sionists against the Arabs, and of the Black Nationalists against Whites and other peoples, show very well that Nazism can affect other peoples as well. Afrocentrism in particular, as a revisionist movement that looks for Black pride, is a movement that have copied many ideas from the Nazi philosophies, and with the same purpose: demostrate the importance of a specific race. They are following the same path of early Nazism.
But Nazism does not only affect so called "pure" races. It is important to notice that mixed people are not free of falling in the fallacies of Nazi doctrines. That's an important point for a group that is trying to stop intollerance in all its forms. Nazi ideas affected the Southern Cone of South America since the beginning of the XX century. In a region that is half White and half Mestizo (mestizo= Indian + European).
The way the Nazis bypassed the problem to capture this "impure" population was the invention of a new creation myth. The "superior" race was not the Nordish race anymore, but the Surdic. A "superior" hybrid of Gaul and the most brave Natives. Once the myth was created, it was not so difficult to ally "Surdics" and "Nordics", and the throubles started.
Those movements that look so stupid at first sight brough a lot of throubles to our lands. German populations in the Southern Cone are numerous, and they were very much influenced by Nazism in most of the XX century, and their alliance with the local "Surdic" allowed them to have a lot of influence in local politics.
If one study these events one will always find the Nazi shadow behind it:
(1) Killing of the "Seguro Obrero" in Chile. An attempt of coup by the Chilean Nazis (1938) ended with 80 Nazi students death.
(2) Juan Domingo Peron and Eva (Evita) protection of Nazi criminals of war.
(3) The influence with several dark figures in the fascist military regimes that existed in Argentina, Chile, Uruguay, Paraguay and Brazil.
(4) The existence of Nazi colonies up in South America, as Dignity Colony in Chile.
I could continue on and on, but that's enough for now. Nazism is a dangerous doctrine that can affect any people.
'
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