Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 12:57 Post subject: Dana Owens
You know who matters in the who someone sees themselves? It's not some man that someone like Mo'Nque OR Rosanne Barr (by the way, both of them have men) but it's the parents of these people. From what I understand Mo'Nque grew up in a 2 family home where they were pushed to be the best and told they were beautiful. Because when they come across guys like you... I won't go there. But you would be suprised (or maybe not) at the number of men who would go to be with them -to get laid, because the ones they considered 'fine' exchanged numbers with the average slightly overweight nice man. Girls who aren't told their self worth nor have high standards of their looks. Will get dupt into laying down with dogs.[/quote]
Come across men like me? You seem to think I would berate her or something. I would not, I have no reason. I just would not date her, ever.
One thing I have learned in life is that if a woman goes to a bar any night of the week and she is willing she will find some desperate man who is desperate enough to sleep with her.
Even an average looking man can not say the same thing if he went to a bar and guarantee he will score. He might need to go to a few, and still won't get lucky in one day.
Point at hand, there are some men who are willing to "brown paperbag it" for whatever reason all day everyday.
I am also not saying that MO'que does not have worth as a human being, talents, a good personality, etc.
That has nothing to do with it.
Anyway I don't really think you understand what I'm saying and I don't really know how else to explain it...that's fine.[/quote]
When some so easily calls someone fat, or 'she can take her fat butt...' they tend be be rude and tactless. You are equating beauty with sexual attraction. Which is where the problem in this discussion lies. They way you so casually use that term (and it seems to be derogatory when you use it) sound like kids who pick on the 'fat' kid in school or in the neighborhood. I wonder how many people on this group that are moderators or members listening to your use of fat... whatever, I'm done with this one.
Why is it even in the forum, it should be in Improving American Society or Womens Issues -Men Welcome
Last edited by gemini072 on Tue 24 Apr 2007 13:29; edited 3 times in total
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 13:08 Post subject:
The fact that models in magazines are a very select group does not mean that certain people do not promote the idea that the fact those models exist and those magazines exist are bad and should not exist because they are hurtful to certain women's self esteem, ete, because those women can't hope to look like those models, etc.
I'm 100% sure if the people who held the beliefs that all people "beautiful" in their way, or whatever had their way, those magazines would not exist or would be fundamentally altered...to make everyone "equally" beautiful. Which is an oxymoron...because I consider beauty something rare not average or common.
Finding value in people as human beings beyond looks was not what I was speaking about. I was specifically talking about valuing looking and how they are perceived and rated in society. Someone could look like the Elephant Man and be “valuable” as a person. Being valuable is not equal to beautiful.
As I said before I have no clue why you brought up reproduction at all, as it was not a topic of discussion previously.
No this thread was not about “big butts” that is what Frank titled it, for whatever reason when he broke it out. This conversation started in discussing “fat women”. Not particularly to butts, breasts, waste, etc. Just overall obese or overweight women as defined by the CDC’s BMI. Ty brought up “butts” I did not. I expanded into hair color as another example of what people rate as attractive.
Sure there is more too attractiveness than “weight” there are many factors, including how people carry themselves, personality. I am speaking specifically about what you think when you look at someone in real life or in a picture. I feel pretty confident if I took a poll of the most attractive women or showed people faces or full body shots, Mo’nque would not be near the top, in this country.
My point about Halle Berry and Tyra Banks was they don’t look “white” but are still considered attractive in this culture by many races of men, so attractive they have professionally model and labeled sex symbols, by predominately white media, but they do not look “traditionally” all American. So I was counter the notion that beauty standards are Eurocentric (still not sure what that is or what it means exactly). Tyra and Halle stand out like sore thumbs in a crowd of Italians or Swedes, obviously not European in appearance.
As far as “my problem” uhm if I have a problem then most people would have it.
The truth is in every society there is a range of what is considered beautiful, it doesn’t matter if it is America, Japan, Iran, etc. Some people are not going to be in that range.
Now does that means that someone out there does not find them beautiful, even in those countries? No. What I’m saying is that on average, or most of the time they will not be considered so, and I don’t see that as a problem per se. As I said, everyone can not be “the best”. If so, the logical result would be there is no “best” because everyone is average. That is hardly the case.
Why is it even in the forum, it should be in Improving American Society or Womens Issues -Men Welcome
I split it off from "Acting White" in this forum, expecting it to fizzle out after a couple of posts. Seeing as how it has taken on a life of its own, feel free to move it to Maya's or to Tracy's forum. If they don't want it, since it uses an athropological term in the title, you could move it to the anthro forum.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 13:17 Post subject:
gemini072 wrote:
You know who matters in the who someone sees themselves? It's not some man that someone like Mo'Nque OR Rosanne Barr (by the way, both of them have men) but it's the parents of these people. From what I understand Mo'Nque grew up in a 2 family home where they were pushed to be the best and told they were beautiful. Because when they come across guys like you... I won't go there. But you would be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of men who would go to be with them -to get laid, because the ones they considered 'fine' exchanged numbers with the average slightly overweight nice man. Girls who aren't told their self worth nor have high standards of their looks. Will get dupt into laying down with dogs.
Come across men like me? You seem to think I would berate her or something. I would not, I have no reason. I just would not date her, ever.
One thing I have learned in life is that if a woman goes to a bar any night of the week and she is willing she will find some desperate man who is desperate enough to sleep with her.
Even an average looking man can not say the same thing if he went to a bar and guarantee he will score. He might need to go to a few, and still won't get lucky in one day.
Point at hand, there are some men who are willing to "brown paperbag it" for whatever reason all day everyday.
I am also not saying that MO'que does not have worth as a human being, talents, a good personality, etc.
That has nothing to do with it.
Anyway I don't really think you understand what I'm saying and I don't really know how else to explain it...that's fine.[/quote]
When some so easily calls someone fat, or 'she can take her fat butt...' they tend be be rude and tactless. You are equating beauty with sexual attraction. Which is where the problem in this discussion lies. They way you so casually use that term (and it seems to be derogatory when you use it) sound like kids who pick on the 'fat' kid in school or in the neighborhood. I wonder how many people on this group that are moderators or members listening to your use of fat... whatever, I'm done with this one.
Why is it even in the forum, it should be in Improving American Society or Womens Issues -Men Welcome[/quote]
Dude, you are projecting. "tend to be" "sound like kids who pick on the 'fat' kid in school or in the neighborhood. " If that is your life experience I can't help you but don't project that onto me or my argument. You do not know me and I have never said it is okay to tease or berate fat people. Not once.
I would think it is obvious I am equating beauty with sexual attractiveness, In this society that is typically what we mean by beautiful, that is the most common definition. I'm not talking about abstract ideas of "inner beauty" and all this nonsense to make people "feeeel" good.
Like, "oh well he looks like the Elephant Man, but he is beautiful inside", or some dribble designed for a Hallmark card.
I dare say "everyone is not beautiful" or some folks are "fat" and that is soooo evil? LOL
Sorry life is not fair.
I'm don't have a 140 IQ, I won't win a Nobel prize, and I'm not Denzel Washington, and I'm just fine with that. I really don't see the issue.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 13:19 Post subject:
fwsweet wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
Why is it even in the forum, it should be in Improving American Society or Womens Issues -Men Welcome
I split it off from "Acting White" in this forum, expecting it to fizzle out after a couple of posts. Seeing as how it has taken on a life of its own, feel free to move it to Maya's or to Tracy's forum. If they don't want it, since it uses an athropological term in the title, you could move it to the anthro forum.
No need, I'm done. I'm not trying to argue people's insecurities. I can't help them with that. I was asked a question about a opinion I expressed and I responded based on my opinion, that is that. I have said about all I want to say.
You know who matters in the who someone sees themselves? It's not some man that someone like Mo'Nque OR Rosanne Barr (by the way, both of them have men) but it's the parents of these people. From what I understand Mo'Nque grew up in a 2 family home where they were pushed to be the best and told they were beautiful. Because when they come across guys like you... I won't go there. But you would be surprised (or maybe not) at the number of men who would go to be with them -to get laid, because the ones they considered 'fine' exchanged numbers with the average slightly overweight nice man. Girls who aren't told their self worth nor have high standards of their looks. Will get dupt into laying down with dogs.
Come across men like me? You seem to think I would berate her or something. I would not, I have no reason. I just would not date her, ever.
One thing I have learned in life is that if a woman goes to a bar any night of the week and she is willing she will find some desperate man who is desperate enough to sleep with her.
Even an average looking man can not say the same thing if he went to a bar and guarantee he will score. He might need to go to a few, and still won't get lucky in one day.
Point at hand, there are some men who are willing to "brown paperbag it" for whatever reason all day everyday.
I am also not saying that MO'que does not have worth as a human being, talents, a good personality, etc.
That has nothing to do with it.
Anyway I don't really think you understand what I'm saying and I don't really know how else to explain it...that's fine.
When some so easily calls someone fat, or 'she can take her fat butt...' they tend be be rude and tactless. You are equating beauty with sexual attraction. Which is where the problem in this discussion lies. They way you so casually use that term (and it seems to be derogatory when you use it) sound like kids who pick on the 'fat' kid in school or in the neighborhood. I wonder how many people on this group that are moderators or members listening to your use of fat... whatever, I'm done with this one.
Why is it even in the forum, it should be in Improving American Society or Womens Issues -Men Welcome[/quote]
Dude, you are projecting. "tend to be" "sound like kids who pick on the 'fat' kid in school or in the neighborhood. " If that is your life experience I can't help you but don't project that onto me or my argument. You do not know me and I have never said it is okay to tease or berate fat people. Not once.
I would think it is obvious I am equating beauty with sexual attractiveness, In this society that is typically what we mean by beautiful, that is the most common definition.
Beauty doesn't mean a person would want to sleep with them. I think Lena Horne is beautiful, I don't want to sleep with her, nor do I find her sexually attractive. I think Dana Owens is beautiful, I love looking at her, I'm not sexually attracted to her.
Finding someone beautiful and seeing them as being sexually attractive are 2 different things.
I see beautiful kids and teenagers all the time, I don't think of them sexually.
I'm not talking about abstract ideas of "inner beauty" and all this nonsense to make people "feeeel" good.
Like, "oh well he looks like the Elephant Man, but he is beautiful inside", or some dribble designed for a Hallmark card.
I dare say "everyone is not beautiful" or some folks are "fat" and that is soooo evil? LOL
Sorry life is not fair.
I'm don't have a 140 IQ, I won't win a Nobel prize, and I'm not Denzel Washington, and I'm just fine with that. I really don't see the issue.[/quote]
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 444 } Location: Île-de-France
Posted: Tue 24 Apr 2007 16:59 Post subject:
Some info on the topic of the thread
Female waist-to-hip ratio preference among rural men in Bakossiland, Cameroon
A study by Dixson et al.(1) reported that when shown line drawings of women from the back, varying in waist-to-hip ratios (WHRs) from 0.5 to 1.0, rural men in Bakossiland, Cameroon, most often preferred a WHR of 0.8.
The following image shows the number of the central African men most strongly preferring a given WHR when asked to pick the most sexually appealing form and the form most attractive in a woman that is a potential long-term partner.
Legend: Dashed line represents expected number of men preferring a given WHR if the choices were made randomly. ** p < 0.005 (chi-squared test).
There does not appear to be a strong preference for hourglass figures among rural men in Bakossiland, Cameroon.
References
Dixson, B. J., Dixson, A. F., Morgan, B., and Anderson, M. J., Human Physique and Sexual Attractiveness: Sexual Preferences of Men and Women in Bakossiland, Cameroon, Arch Sex Behav Nov. 30 Epub (2006).
Female waist-to-hip ratio preference among Chinese men
A study by Dixson et al.(1) reported that when shown line drawings of women from the back, varying in waist-to-hip ratios (WHRs) from 0.5 to 1.0, Chinese men (college students) most often preferred a WHR of 0.6.
The following image shows the number of Chinese men most strongly preferring a given WHR when asked to pick the most sexually appealing form.
Legend: Dashed line represents expected number of men preferring a given WHR if the choices were made randomly. ** p < 0.001, *** p < 0.001 (chi-squared tests).
The following image shows the number of Chinese men most strongly preferring a given WHR when asked to pick the form they would like in a long-term partner.
Legend: Dashed line represents expected number of men preferring a given WHR if the choices were made randomly. ** p < 0.001, *** p < 0.001 (chi-squared tests).
There is a strong preference for hourglass figures among many Chinese men.
Fig 2. Drawings used to compare profile WHR preferences between European and Hadza men.(14) A, stimuli presented to Hadza men; B, stimuli presented to European men. When asked to rate preferred figure with respect to attractiveness, healthiness and wife-material, on all three counts, the most common first-choice preferred WHR was 0.6 for Hadza men and 0.65 for European men. "Between 17% and 32% of the Hadza selected 0.55 first on one of the three criteria, whereas not a single [white] man in the United States selected 0.55 on any question" Marlowe, F., Apicella, C., and Reed, D., Men's preferences for women's profile waist-to-hip ratio in two societies, Evol Hum Behav, 26, 458 (2005).
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