Posted: Sun 22 Apr 2007 16:47 Post subject: Need advice on children and racism
[I have moved this thread from the "Improving U.S. Society" forum to here, not because it was misplaced, but because it fits in better with the sorts of things that MixedMom (Tracy) moderates. -- FWS]
Hi. I recently joined this forum because I am researching for a paper on gangsta rap. However, I need some advice regarding a personal issue and I hope it is appropriate for me to post this here. If not, I apologize in advance.
We are a white family living in a mostly white small town in central Florida. My daughter is in third grade and has a biracial cousin. One of her best friends, who is black, lives down the street and they are in the same class at school. I never discussed race with my daughter because I did not see it as an issue. I felt (mistakenly) that if we as parents do not make race an issue then it won't be one for our children. In any event, there is a second black girl in my daughter's class and upon meeting her my daughter told her about her "black" cousin. This second black girl apparently was offended by what my daughter said (saying "black" instead of "African American") and told her that white people are horrendous. When my daughter came home and told me this I didn't know how to handle it so I called my neighbor, the mother of my daughter's friend, and asked her if what my daughter said was offensive and if it is preferable to say "African American" instead of "black". According to my neighbor, who knows my daughter very well, she didn't say anything wrong and has never seen her display any type of racist attitudes. My neighbor then related to me some incidents where she and her children have experienced racism. I was horrified that it happened and equally horrified that I was so ignorant that I had no idea what was going on right down the street. I then explained to my daughter that some white people have been very mean to black people for many years and that maybe the girl in her class had some bad experiences that cause her to feel that white people are horrendous. I also told her that her friend would likely have a harder time in life than she would only because she is black and my daughter appeared to understand how wrong this is. Since I am white I am obviously not qualified to discuss the experience of racism since I have never experienced it. So, I bought my daughter a highly recommended book for her age group called Leon's Story. It is an autobiographical account of Leon Tillage who grew up in the 40's in North Carolina as the son of sharecroppers and then went on to participate in the civil rights movement. While it appears that the story helped my daughter understand what happened historically, there was an unintended consequence. In the book Leon says that blacks were called "colored". Zoe (my daughter) then went into school and called the black girl "colored". This did not go over well. When Zoe came home and told me what she said, I just thunked myself on the head and told her she should not have said that and Zoe was confused as to why because she read it in the book I gave her. Since then, it appears that her friend down the street is not returning her phone calls. Now I am too embarassed to call my neighbor and discuss it. We really like these people and the friendship is important to my daughter and to us because we don't allow her to play with other children unless we have met their parents and approve of the way they are raising their children.
What should I do now? Thank you in advance for any advice you can give me.
I will let others better qualified respond about any inadvertent offense that your daughter may have given, and how to patch things up with your neighbor.
Regarding your own awareness, I recommend Debra Van Ausdale and Joe R. Feagin, The First R: How Children Learn Race and Racism (Lanham MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2001).
The point of my recommendation is that children must become skilled at learning the customs of their society in order to survive as adults. In most Western societies, this includes learning about truthfulness, honesty, loyalty, and so forth. In the English-speaking U.S. culture, it also includes the ability to tell subconsciously and at glance whether someone is Black or not. U.S. kids begin to learn this as soon as they can play with each other.
Of course, you want your children to judge others by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin (to steal a phrase). But none of us can safely avoid recognizing that, like it or not, our children must learn the "correct" social labels that are important in the United States.
Posted: Sun 22 Apr 2007 17:21 Post subject: thank you
fwsweet wrote:
I will let others better qualified respond about any inadvertent offense that your daughter may have given, and how to patch things up with your neighbor.
Regarding your own awareness, I recommend Debra Van Ausdale and Joe R. Feagin, The First R: How Children Learn Race and Racism (Lanham MD: Rowman & Littlefield, 2001).
The point of my recommendation is that children must become skilled at learning the customs of their society in order to survive as adults. In most Western societies, this includes learning about truthfulness, honesty, loyalty, and so forth. In the English-speaking U.S. culture, it also includes the ability to tell subconsciously and at glance whether someone is Black or not. U.S. kids begin to learn this as soon as they can play with each other.
Of course, you want your children to judge others by the content of their character and not by the color of their skin (to steal a phrase). But none of us can safely avoid recognizing that, like it or not, our children must learn the "correct" social labels that are important in the United States.
Thank you for your advice. I just ordered the book from Amazon.
Ethnic labels can be hard to keep up with because they're constantly changing. My biracial daughter has no problem with the term "Mulatto" but there are many who do not like this word to describe those of ~ 50% African ~50% European mix. Many "black" Americans refer to themselves ethnically as black and don't like the term "African-American". Then, there are many "African-Americans" who do not like the term "black" and for them, "black" is an inappropriate ethnic label. I believe that it's best to simply just "go with the flow" regarding ethnic labels. Everyone should refrain from referring to anyone else in ethnic terms until the correct label is revealed. As far as describing the biracial cousin as "black", if that's the label that your niece/nephew goes with, your daughter can simply explain to her "African-American" acquaintance that she didn't say anything wrong because that this is how her cousin identifies. Also, there are some black/white biracial people who prefer the term "biracial" instead of black or white for an ethnic label.
Last edited by mixedmom on Sun 22 Apr 2007 21:34; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Sun 22 Apr 2007 21:34 Post subject: it's so confusing
mixedmom wrote:
Hi Brenda
Ethnic labels can be hard to keep up with because they're constantly changing. My biracial daughter has no problem with the term "Mulatto" but there are many who do not like this word to describe those of ~ 50% African ~50% European mix. Many "black" Americans refer to themselves ethnically as black and don't like the term "African-American". Then, there are many "African-Americans" who do not like the term "black" and for them, "black" is an inappropriate ethnic label. I believe that it's best to simply just "go with the flow" regarding ethnic labels. Everyone should refrain from referring to anyone else in ethnic terms until the correct label is revealed. As far as describing the biracial cousin as "black", if that's the label that your niece/nephew goes with, your daughter can simply explain to her friend that she didn't say anything wrong because that this is how her cousin identifies.
Thanks for your advice, it sounds reasonable and I'll let Zoe know. I think it gets so confusing for all involved. A friend of mine is white and from Norway and she and her black Ecuadoran husband have two children. Her son told the kids in school that he is Norwegian and they laughed at him. Of course he is just as Norwegian as anything else and was actually born in Norway so that is how he identifies himself. Zoe's cousin does go with black, but whether that's her actual preference or societal pressure, I have no idea since she's a rather distant cousin on my ex's side and so I don't have much to do with her parents, although Zoe does see her quite a bit at their family events. An odd thing about her cousin's father (he's the black parent) is that whenever I see him he calls me "ma'am" or "Miss Brenda" and it makes me wildly uncomfortable, as if we were living in the south in 1950. I don't know how to handle this, either. There are so many loaded issues that I'm afraid I'll never get it "right".
I'm late in this discussion but I'm with what mixedmom said. You mentioned that Zoe's cousin's father often refers to you as "ma'am" or "Ms. Brenda". If he is from the South, this can be interpreted as simply showing respect towards a woman. There could be other factors too (perhaps if you're somewhat older than he is). Or perhaps he doesn't feel comfortable with referring to you on a first-name basis, that it would be disrespectful. I wouldn't worry about it too much.
I a ma firm believer if you do not make an issue of race /ethnic groups with your children, then they will not not have issues. Of course , even young children notice after a while people look different. Address those questions honestly, but there is not need to dwell on it.
It is really not a big deal if adutls do not make a big deal.
Your neice is Black American. Your neighbors are AfricanAmerican. You and your daughter are White American. Forget your neighbors. If they cannot accept that your child only said Black in reference to her cousin, who calls herself Black, then your neighbors have the problem.
Some people, Black, White, African American, so-called Bi-Racial, whatever have hang-ups, inferiority complexes. Forget about them.
Thanks! I guess part of my confusion about the whole "ma'am" thing is that I was raised in Philadelphia and therefore not terribly familiar with traditional southern manners. He is a tad younger than I and southern. I've since spoken with somebody raised in Alabama and he explained to me how enculturated those forms of address are.
In any event, it all worked out ok, Zoe's friends are playing with her again and she's become more educated and sensitive (as have I). Although it wasn't quite pleasant in the beginning, the experience was beneficial in the sense that we are more knowledgable than we were as a result of bringing what seems to be almost a forbidden subject out into the open.
Wonderful that it all worked out! It sounds like you're raising your daughter to be open-minded...we need more of that in this world. Children tend to be kind to other kids if they're taught the right way. This helps them to grow into well-balanced adults. It all starts at home with you.
Hmm...yes, I'm a Southern gal myself and it isn't uncommon to hear people being called "ma'am" or "sir". It doesn't apply only to older folks. Southerners are often conscious of courtesy despite stereotypes, so what might seem like stiff formality to you is simply being polite to them.
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