Posted: Tue 05 Jun 2007 15:24 Post subject: AA Self-defeatism
Discussion question(s) to the forum:
Why do you think that some Black Americans like 'he who shall not be named' ( ), like to convolute 'race loyalty' with socio-political opinion, behavorial standards, and/or cultural bias?
Why do the middle class and even some upper classes of 'Black America' make excuses for, rather than admonish, the boorish and often times anti-social behavior of some Blacks?
For instrance, instead of blaming the criminal, we have many educated, articulate, and law abiding Blacks and Whites rationalizing these people's poor individual life choices as the effect of racism, or 'Whitey's fault', or whatever. He who shall not be named has done this before - blaming other things/people rather than find fault with the individuals who choose to commit crime/drop-out of school/have illegitmacy, etc.
I do not see Whites, Latinos, Asians, Indians, etc. allowing their criminal underclass or their 'White Trash' etc., to set their cultural 'social policy' or 'represent' them. To get out of the Trailer Park is admirable, not being a 'sell-out'. They don't say to each other that only the 'real' White People live there.
Why do you think African-Americans [in general] allow this?
Is there a conspiracy? A Jew media cabal? White Supremacy?
This wasn't always the case for Black Americans. American culture in general has been downgraded and 'Jerry Spingerville' is almost passé in many parts. American standards of social ettiquette have just sunk.
The 'Keepin' It Real' philosophy of the ghetto that has now spread to the middle and even upper classes of Black Americans. Prior to the 70s/80s, Black Americans strived to move on up like 'George & Wheezy', to prioritize education, have stable family relationships, to 'fit in' and conform to American standards, etc. However, nowadays, there seems to be very little room for individuality in Black America. You are either with us or against us. This is one reason why I persoanlly feel that many Blacks, esp. Black Leaders, promote ODR.
Note that in elections 80%+, (even 90% in some areas) of African Americans vote Democrat. Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, no other ethnicity in America votes in such a skewed manner politically.
In my line of work, I have often come into contact with felons, or former felons. Do you know that none I have talked with have denied their criminal behavior (yes, I know some Black males in prison are innocent). Most also cite hanging with wrong crowd, trying to make a quick buck, rather than trying to get ahead or racism as the reason for their illegal activity.
If the criminals often do not make excuses for their behavior, why should anyone else?
Posted: Tue 05 Jun 2007 15:30 Post subject: Re: AA Self-defeatism
Melani23 wrote:
Note that in elections 80%+, even 90% in some areas of African Americans vote Democrat. Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, no other ethnicity in America votes in such a skewed manner politically.
Jews, evangelical Southern whites, Mexican Americans, Puerto Ricans vote in a skewed manner politically.
Posted: Tue 05 Jun 2007 15:34 Post subject: Re: AA Self-defeatism
G-Man wrote:
Melani23 wrote:
Note that in elections 80%+, even 90% in some areas of African Americans vote Democrat. Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, no other ethnicity in America votes in such a skewed manner politically.
Jews, evangelical Southern whites, Mexican Americans, Puerto Ricans vote in a skewed manner politically.
Hey, thanks for the correction. I wasn't sure as noted.
However, I do remember reading that in the last Presidential election or two, Hispanics (all together) were almost a perfect 50-50 split between Republican/Democrat.
Joined: 10 May 2007 {Posts: 138 } Location: Oklahoma City
Posted: Wed 06 Jun 2007 01:47 Post subject: Re: AA Self-defeatism
Melani23 wrote:
Why do you think African-Americans [in general] allow this?
Fear of being called "Uncle Tom".
Just my opinion.
It's cultish in my view, like a huge dysfunctional family. Either you don't say anything negative against any black, no matter how badly they act, or you're against all blacks and a traitor to your race. I don't have any proof or anything, but that's how it seems to me as someone looking in on the outside.
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Wed 06 Jun 2007 18:11 Post subject: Re: AA Self-defeatism
Melani23 wrote:
Why do the middle class and even some upper classes of 'Black America' make excuses for, rather than admonish, the boorish and often times anti-social behavior of some Blacks?
I believe that it may be rooted in the unconscious view of "Blacks" as non-individuals. Each "black" person is not really a fully functioning person but a mere representative of 'the group.' As such, the acts of individuals represent the entire group. As it's impossible to control all of these individuals and 'fix' them, so the way to cope with this catch 22 situation is either to try and ignore it or make excuses.
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Wed 06 Jun 2007 18:32 Post subject:
Otorongo wrote:
They do critisize them, a lot. But not in public. dirty laundry mentality.
I agree. Bill Cosby has shattered the myth that blacks are not critical of criminal behavior. He only said what many of us have said in many other venues. I suggest people spend some time in barbershops and churches if they think middle class blacks don't criticize bad behavior.
This thread reminds me of a conversation that I had with a "white" friend of mine. My friend told me about a conversation that he had with a co-worker who is a black woman who lives in a black upper middle class neighborhood with her husband and children. Apparently, the middle class black residents began noticing what they considered to be undesirable black teenage boys who didn't live in their neighborhood coming into the neighborhood park to play basketball on the nice new courts. These "undesirables" were bringing "ghetto" mannerisms with them (loud swearing, loud curse-filled rap music, ebonic speech, excessively rough horse play, crude talking (without regard to being in public), etc. My friend's co-worker told him that the upper middle class black residents decided to dismantle the basketball court to discourage these unwanted boy from hanging around. She told my friend that the neighbors didn't want their children mixing with these kids and picking up their ways. Removing the basketball hoops worked. The teen boys with the bad manners left. After a while, the residents put the basketball hoops back up.
If the residents had been white, this certainly would have been considered a racial issue. It's more of a social issue.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Wed 06 Jun 2007 20:59 Post subject:
Pardon me, Mel... but what's up with the abstract posting?
At least I called you out by name on how I truly feel about what/how you post regarding "Black" Americans. I didn't/don't hide behind subliminal messages and passive agressive statements, either. I don't like sneaky intentions... be "real" (which is just slang for being honest and/or upfront about how you feel about something/someone) and say whatever you have to say to me or about me. I may not like it but be "real". I give credit to TMK for being "real" on that level. He says what he thinks and deals with the consequences thereafter.
The following comments and observations are purely my opinions and do not reflect the thoughts and views of this website or it's Adminstrative staff/moderators. If anyone is offended by the commentary, it is not the fault of the Administrator and/or the Moderators. Thank you.
Now that's out of the way, I'll answer all of your "insinuations". Well folks, you already know my style so please bare with me!
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Why do you think that some Black Americans like 'he who shall not be named' ( ), like to convolute 'race loyalty' with socio-political opinion, behavorial standards, and/or cultural bias?
Gee, I don't know. Maybe it has something to do with the fact that "Black" Americans have always been associated with everything negative by "mainstream" society and it's "power tools" (ie, the media in all of it's forms, the government - local, state & federal, the police, the military, the medical induistry, entertainment, education, etc)... basically every facet of American Society.
Why do you think that some "White" Americans and/or some "White-indoctrinated" Americans (non-"White"/"Black" American citizens who have and wanted to be included in the "mainstream" group think mechanism by any means necessary) like to convolute "ghetto behavior" as basic "Black" behavior and then use that reasoning as an excuse to be racist against most "Black" Americans?
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For instrance, instead of blaming the criminal, we have many educated, articulate, and law abiding Blacks and Whites rationalizing these people's poor individual life choices as the effect of racism, or 'Whitey's fault', or whatever.
No you do not. If people are talking about poor people who commit crimes, I'm sure they are trying to get to the cause/effect of why they are poor in the first place. Usually poverty is generational, so the "poor" person's circumstances may be due to Institutionalized Racism. That doesn't excuse him/her who does the crime nor does it negate the fact that he/she who is committing the crime is personally responsible for their actions. Nobody denies that, but you don't hear about it in the Media. The Media wants "mainstream" America to think that Cosby was the first and only "Black" leader to say enough is enough and "speak up", when in actuality, Al Sharpton, "Messy" Jesse, as well as many other "Black" leaders who don't get "mainstream" airtime on "Black" topics, have been privately (keeping it in-house) doing it for decades.
Quote:
He who shall not be named has done this before - blaming other things/people rather than find fault with the individuals who choose to commit crime/drop-out of school/have illegitmacy, etc.
I don't "blame" anyone. I just say what I have to say because I have been "Black" all of my life (both socially applied and self described) so I can speak on Americanized racism from a different perspective than a non-"Black" American can. When I say the answer to most of the questions asked around here is caused by "White Supremacy", that's no lie or "blame-laying". That's the truth, at least in this country. Check the American history and see if I'm wrong. Check out the "mainstream" news and see if I'm wrong. It is what it is.
That doesn't mean just because I got cutt-off in traffic this morning by a "White" looking person it was due to Racism/"White Supremacy". Not every single uncourteous act by a "White" person or someone I perceive is "White" are due to those things either. That would be foolish to think like that. I wouldn't be on this site if I thought like that, either. I would be talking to other "Black" people who alledgedly think like that, wouldn't I? I dunno...
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I do not see Whites, Latinos, Asians, Indians, etc. allowing their criminal underclass or their 'White Trash' etc., to set their cultural 'social policy' or 'represent' them. To get out of the Trailer Park is admirable, not being a 'sell-out'. They don't say to each other that only the 'real' White People live there.
That's because the Media doesn't show "Whites, Latinos, Asians, Indians, etc. allowing their criminal underclass or their 'White Trash' etc., to set their cultural 'social policy' or 'represent' them." as they constantly try to do with "Black" people. The Media/Hollywood pushes these images as authentic "Black" culture but most "Black" people are not from the Ghetto and don't behave as such. If anything may be true it is the fact that most "Black" Americans have relatives or close friends who may live or have lived in the "ghetto"/"slums" or an economically poor neighborhood; therefore, tend to have an idea of what life is like in those environments. But there are "Blacks" who have never seen and/or been to the "ghetto"/"slums", nor would they be able to identify with people who have/do because they grew up in "mainstream" America and are more than likely to think as a "mainstream" American.
The Media presents the news in such a way that it will have you believe that hogwash and the "mainstream" Americans (who don't deal with "Black" people on a daily basis to know better) eats it up as fact and empirical evidence. That's what it is there for... to shape the minds and attitudes of "mainstream" America, it's "sheeple". baaaaaahh, baaaaah! When major crimes are shown on TV, who is it? You guessed right... "Black"/"Brown" faces. But there are plenty of "White"/non-"White" people in prison but they only show the "Black"/"Brown" faces? WTH?
BTW, La Costra Nostra doesn't have a stronghold on "Italian-Americans" and their culture/perception in America (they don't "snitch" on their criminals but they get a pass...why?)? What about the Triad's influence over "Asian-Americans" and how they live their daily lives here in America? In "Latino" culture, gangs are huge/influential and shape the way they live too... but only CRIPS and Bloods (both originally "Black" gangs) get most of the media attention/scrutiny?
Oh... and for your information, a Native American, for example, who is believed to be too friendly with or admiring of "Whites", is called an "Uncle Tomahawk"; Chinese Americans use the term "Uncle Tong." Guess that destroys your "sell-out" argument right there.
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Why do you think African-Americans [in general] allow this?
Is there a conspiracy?
Yes, IMO. It's been happening since the 13 colonies were formed, which basically means since the infancy of this country.
Quote:
A Jew media cabal?
Yes, IMO. Who owns most of the American Media and who runs the multinational corporations that own the Media? Who controls the images that are being shown in American cinema/television/radio/Media?
Quote:
White Supremacy?
IMO, hell yes! Who controls the resources and who gets what? What "race" is seen as the dominant "race" on the planet? Who created and set the basic racial categories/classifications as we all know them worldwide?
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This wasn't always the case for Black Americans. American culture in general has been downgraded and 'Jerry Spingerville' is almost passé in many parts. American standards of social ettiquette have just sunk.
This is the case for ALL Americans. Around the world Americans are seen as arrogant and ignorant of other cultures. And that includes "White" Americans.
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The 'Keepin' It Real' philosophy of the ghetto that has now spread to the middle and even upper classes of Black Americans.
"The 'Keepin' It Real' philosophy of the ghetto" has reached more than the "middle and even upper classes of Black Americans"... it has reached "White" America too. That's why there is this big push to get rid of Hip Hop by purely focusing on the negative rappers who are "mainstream" in appeal. "Afterall, "White" teenage children are the biggest proprietors of so-called "Gangster Rap". And who runs/owns these Record Companies that distributes the so-called "Gangster Rap" again? Talk about image control... go figure!
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Prior to the 70s/80s, Black Americans strived to move on up like 'George & Wheezy', to prioritize education, have stable family relationships, to 'fit in' and conform to American standards, etc.
It's still like that for the most part. You can't just use the "Black" people who live in "slums" and "ghettos" as the measuring stick for all or even most "Black" people's way of life. And no, most "Black" people weren't trying to "'fit in' and conform to American standards" to the effect of losing their/our identity. "Blacks" are Americans but they/we have never been accepted by "mainstream" America at any time in American history, so "Blacks" had to create their/our own culture within the dominate culture that was/has been dismantled mostly due to Integration. What people refer to as the "Black" community nowadays does not suffice, because as I said, most "Blacks" don't live in the "ghetto" and that term has become almost synonymous with the term "Black". Most "Blacks" live in urban areas but that doesn't automatically mean "ghetto".
Anyways, from what I've observed here in the Northeastern United States (New England and the tri-state area) is that, IMO, Puerto Ricans (Not necessarily the Native PRs but definitely the ones who were/are born in the US) are the most "ghettofied" people around here but they aren't the poster children for "ghetto-like" behavior, unlike "Blacks". I'm just saying...
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However, nowadays, there seems to be very little room for individuality in Black America.
So every "Black" person you've ever met in life behaves and thinks alike? Oh my goodness! So "mainstream" doesn't tentatively mean comforming to a dominate group? If so, then how/why is it implied that "White" America is big on individuality when their lifestyle is considered mainstream? Mainstream to what/whom? That's not individuality... that's "group-think". Makes no sense, IMO.
Main Entry: 1main·stream
Pronunciation: 'mAn-"strEm
Function: noun
: a prevailing current or direction of activity or influence
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You are either with us or against us.
Everybody thinks like this to a certain extent, especially the president! The "mainstream" segment of society definitely thinks like this or there wouldn't be certain groups excluded from it, right?
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This is one reason why I persoanlly feel that many Blacks, esp. Black Leaders, promote ODR.
Where's your circumstantial evidence for this kind of thinking? Please show me one example of many "Blacks" promoting the ODR (as in One Drop of "Black" blood makes you "Black" and ONLY "Black" kind of thinking). Americans in general subconsciously adhere to ideas of the ODR out of sheer habit because of it's prolonged use and legal history here. I'm willing to bet that most Americans aren't even aware that the ODR was an actual law on the books in this country. Most Americans (no matter the "race"/ethnicity) don't read, especially history. They watch TV and get most, if not all, of their information there; hence, all of the preconceived notions that cause problems across the board here in America.
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Note that in elections 80%+, (even 90% in some areas) of African Americans vote Democrat. Please correct me if I am wrong, but to my knowledge, no other ethnicity in America votes in such a skewed manner politically.
As if most "Rednecks" don't vote the same. As if most "bible-thumping" 1st Babtist Christians don't vote the same. The list goes on and on.
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In my line of work, I have often come into contact with felons, or former felons. Do you know that none I have talked with have denied their criminal behavior (yes, I know some Black males in prison are innocent). Most also cite hanging with wrong crowd, trying to make a quick buck, rather than trying to get ahead or racism as the reason for their illegal activity.
So in your line of work most felons or former felons are automatically "Black"? You didn't say, "In my line of work, I have often come into contact with "Black" felons, or "Black" former felons.", you just said felons so matter of factly and everybody reading this automatically put two and two together. Why? Mind control tactics implored by the Media, that's how. Felon="Black" man=criminal... all Media created soundbites that trigger subconscious thoughts making them manifest itself in stereotypes.
All of the reasons they gave you are true. Who said that they weren't? Those reasons are obvious reasons and will more than likely land anyone in prison for doing them. No denying that. But then again, different laws affect different people in different ways. Please refer to the Mandatory Drug Sentencing Laws to see what I mean here.
I'm off my soapbox now. Thanks for reading this long post but I wanted to answer everything she asked in one swoop.
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Wed 06 Jun 2007 22:04 Post subject:
Sankofa wrote:
Quote:
A Jew media cabal?
Yes, IMO. Who owns most of the American Media and who runs the multinational corporations that own the Media? Who controls the images that are being shown in American cinema/television/radio/Media?
Perhaps this belongs in a different thread but I have to ask:
I need someone, (American) to explain to me what is the history behind why some African Americans see Jews in this way? Is it to do with the African American Islamic movement? (That's the only think I could think of.)
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Wed 06 Jun 2007 23:38 Post subject:
Patience wrote:
Sankofa wrote:
Quote:
A Jew media cabal?
Yes, IMO. Who owns most of the American Media and who runs the multinational corporations that own the Media? Who controls the images that are being shown in American cinema/television/radio/Media?
Perhaps this belongs in a different thread but I have to ask:
I need someone, (American) to explain to me what is the history behind why some African Americans see Jews in this way? Is it to do with the African American Islamic movement? (That's the only think I could think of.)
Yes, this does belong in a different thread. But I have ask how does one black person's view of Jewish-controlled media become representative of blacks' views of Jews in general?
by Daniel Pipes
Al-Mushahid as-Siyasi (London)
October 18, 1998
["As-Saytara al-Yahudiya ma bayn al-Haqiqa wa'l-Khiyyal" – contribution to a symposium in an Arabic-language magazine]
(1) It is said that the Jewish control of America is so tight. Is that reality or myth?
The notion of Jewish control of the United States is utter nonsense. Jews are a capable people who have, through hard-work, gained a disproportionate role in some aspects of American life. But they in no way dominate the country. Further, they could not, for Jews differ greatly among themselves; the notion of a single Jewish viewpoint organized by a single Jewish group is pure fantasy. On any topic—from education to foreign policy—they disagree vociferously and intensely among themselves.
(2) The Arab press talks about Jewish control of money, media and politics in America. Is this an undisputed fact?
No, there is no Jewish control of the media and politics in the United States. Jews do have a larger role than their 2 percent of the population might suggest, but it is far from monolithic or organized. Jews compete with each other as much or more than they cooperate—whether for business or for votes.
(3) Has the political Jewish control originated from the active role in elections as a well organised minority?
For starters, there is no "political Jewish control." For evident historical reasons, Jews have an intense interest in politics. They have had a tumultuous and sometimes terrible history: to protect themselves from future disasters, Jews in the United States and elsewhere tend to pay close attention to politics. They vote in larger percentages than almost any other element of the population. They give money to political candidates in larger amounts. They write and speak more about politics. None of this amounts to Jewish "control" of politics in the United States, but it does help explain the prominent place of Jews in American public life.
(4) What about religious and cultural alliances of American Jews with the rest of America?
In the entire history of the Jews, they have never lived in a country as securely and as successfully as in the United States today. It is a golden age. The secularism of the United States offers Jews the opportunity to purse their religion without any interference from the state. The openness of the country allows them the chance to flourish economically and express themselves intellectually. Its democratic nature permits Jews to integrate into public life. In all, Jews have become a full-fledged part of American life. They have both influenced the country and been influenced by it. In this sense, Jews cannot be distinguished from other Americans, even if they retain a distinctive set of characteristics.
(5) If there were such control, how can America liberate itself from it?
The notion of America liberating itself from Jews is absurd. Jews are full citizens of the United States with political, economic and personal rights and responsibilities precisely like any other citizens. This may be difficult for Arabs to comprehend, for the premises of American life are utterly different from those in the Middle East; as a result, Arabs in many cases simply do not understand how things work in the United States. It is key not to assume that the United States resembles Arab countries; I urge your readers not to see the United States in terms of their own experience. It takes much information and imagination to understand how this truly revolutionary country functions. Do not presume: learn. Do not project from what you know but take the time to find out how things work there. Only by such a process of investigating will Arabs come to comprehend the United States in general and specifically the role of Jews within it.
They do critisize them, a lot. But not in public. dirty laundry mentality.
I agree. Bill Cosby has shattered the myth that blacks are not critical of criminal behavior. He only said what many of us have said in many other venues. I suggest people spend some time in barbershops and churches if they think middle class blacks don't criticize bad behavior.
Working class blacks and (the respectable) poor criticize bad behavior as well.
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Thu 07 Jun 2007 13:03 Post subject:
High School Teacher wrote:
Patience wrote:
Sankofa wrote:
Quote:
A Jew media cabal?
Yes, IMO. Who owns most of the American Media and who runs the multinational corporations that own the Media? Who controls the images that are being shown in American cinema/television/radio/Media?
Perhaps this belongs in a different thread but I have to ask:
I need someone, (American) to explain to me what is the history behind why some African Americans see Jews in this way? Is it to do with the African American Islamic movement? (That's the only think I could think of.)
Yes, this does belong in a different thread. But I have ask how does one black person's view of Jewish-controlled media become representative of blacks' views of Jews in general?
I didn't say that it was "representative" of African Americans and I certainly don't believe that. Although it's not a part of the mainstream AA culture, it's more than one person's opinion because I've heard it several times before.
Every kind of bigotry has it's history and cause and I just don't know what that is in this case. It seems like such an odd bigotry for AAs to have. Also I can't find the answer on the internet.
I didn't ask the question directly of Sankofa because if he feels this way, he can't provide a proper answer to the question.
Yes, IMO. Who owns most of the American Media and who runs the multinational corporations that own the Media? Who controls the images that are being shown in American cinema/television/radio/Media?
Perhaps this belongs in a different thread but I have to ask:
I need someone, (American) to explain to me what is the history behind why some African Americans see Jews in this way? Is it to do with the African American Islamic movement? (That's the only think I could think of.)
There are many studies showing that African Americans on average are more likely to harbor anti-Jewish attitudes than Euro-Americans. People find this hard to believe because when they think of anti-Jewish attitudes being expressed, they think of white neo-Nazis, and conclude that organizations or groups are the sole means by which these attitudes are conveyed. Hence, whites are more likely to harbor anti-Jewish attitudes to these people. But if we look at attitudes expressed by individuals as opposed to explicitly anti-Jewish organizations there are different levels of animosity toward Jews. This is further complicated by place of residence in the U.S.
Times columnist and editorial board member Bill Maxwell kept a promise to himself, to become a professor at a small historically black college, to nurture needy students the way that mentors had encouraged him as a young man. It was tougher than he had anticipated.
By BILL MAXWELL
Published May 13, 2007
The August sun beat down and the temperature already was approaching 80 degrees on Monday morning as I neared Stillman College. This would be my first day as a professor at this small historically black school in Tuscaloosa, an old Southern city of fewer than 80, 000 residents where the University of Alabama and the Crimson Tide football team overshadow everything else.
As I drove through Stillman's black-iron main gate and approached Martin Luther King Jr. Hall, a three-story men's dormitory, I was on a mission to fulfill a promise to myself. The college was founded in 1876, sits on a tidy 106 acres and has an enrollment of fewer than 1, 000 students. Many locals see the campus as an oasis, the only real symbol of hope in the most racially segregated, most economically depressed part of Tuscaloosa. The original front section of the campus, with its sprawling green lawn and red brick buildings, has some of the grand magnolias that greeted students at the turn of the 20th century.
Driving my 13-year-old, unairconditioned Chevy Blazer past the guard house, I became apprehensive when I noticed about a dozen male students wearing baggy pants, oversized white T-shirts, expensive sneakers and assorted bling standing around shooting the breeze. At least two had "jailhouse tats" on their arms, crude tattoos suggesting that these young men had spent time behind bars. They carried no books or anything else to indicate they were on a college campus.
I got a good look at their faces. I wanted to remember these young men if any of them showed up in my classes.
Behind them, several others sat on a low brick wall near the dorm entrance. They, too, were clad like extras in a gangsta rap video. It was a scene straight out of "the hood" - young black men seemingly without direction or purpose, hanging out on the corner. In this case, they were hanging out on what is popularly known as "The Yard" on a college campus where they were supposed to be preparing for a more productive life.
I had expected a more collegiate scene on Aug. 9, 2004.
A year before coming to Stillman, I had written a commentary for the St. Petersburg Times arguing that Historically Black Colleges and Universities, or HBCUs, remain viable. I further argued that given the increasing reliance on standardized tests to determine college admission and given the nation's conservative turn, HBCUs are needed more than ever to provide an opportunity for many young blacks who otherwise never would be able to attend college because of factors such as low standardized test scores and criminal records.
There are 106 HBCUs in 24 states, and they are mostly in the South. They are public and relatively well-funded, such as Florida A&M University in Tallahassee; private and well-financed with solid academic reputations, such as Howard University in Washington, Spelman College and Morehouse College in Atlanta and Hampton University in Virginia. They are also tiny, poor and struggling, such as Stillman. They offer four-year and two-year degrees, liberal arts and technology paths. Some have graduate schools and schools of law and medicine.
Before the 1964 Civil Rights Act, these schools were the ticket to the good life for blacks. But integration gradually siphoned off many of their best kids, and HBCUs now enroll just 12 percent of all black college students.
Yet I still believed in these schools. So in 2004 I resigned from my job as a St. Petersburg Times columnist and editorial writer that paid more than $70, 000 a year to teach at Stillman for $33, 000 a year. I wanted to fulfill a long-ago promise I made with the professors who taught and nurtured me during the 1960s at two historically black colleges, Wiley College in Marshall, Texas, and Bethune-Cookman College in Daytona Beach.
When I began my first day at Stillman, I was channeling my experiences of long ago. I would be a professor who would inspire and guide the lives of young black women and men who wanted to become successful journalists.
As it turned out, I would last just two years before returning to the Times. I left the campus disheartened and disillusioned, and I regretted leaving behind a handful of dedicated students with real potential. Another graduating class has just left Stillman through the same gates I first entered in 2004, but I no longer feel welcome on campus.
I had chosen Stillman for several reasons. I had friends in Tuscaloosa, and I had a nostalgic connection dating back to 1964, when I helped register voters who had sought the safety of the campus.
I also liked Stillman president Ernest McNealey. An Alabama native, McNealey wanted Stillman to have a strong journalism program. He knew that newsrooms around the nation look for competent black reporters and editors, and he wanted me to re-establish the journalism major that had been discontinued in 1997. With an effective program, we could find good jobs for many of our graduates. He was the kind of man I wanted to work for.
With a $100, 000 gift from a Tampa donor, my colleagues and I re-established the major during my first semester, and we set up a modest scholarship. After that, my main responsibilities were managing the program, teaching and recruiting students and co-advising the student newspaper.
'Take your seats and be quiet!'
At 8 on that first morning, I met my freshman English class. I had volunteered to teach it because I wanted to assess the writing skills of the students in general. Because the chairman of my department had promised me small classes, I had expected no more than 15 students. Instead, I faced 33. All were black; more than half were women. Four of the men had been in front of King Hall earlier.
The room was noisy, and two who had been in front of King Hall were horsing around. I put my books on the table and raised an arm for silence. When only a few students paid attention I raised my arm again, and this time I yelled.
"All right, knock it off! Take your seats and be quiet!"
I could not believe that I had to yell for college students to behave in a classroom. This is not going to be a good experience, I thought, unfolding the roster and preparing to call the roll. When I could not pronounce the second name on the list, I knew for sure I was in big trouble. As I fumbled with the strange combinations of alphabets and apostrophes, the class roared.
"He can't even read, " a student said.
More laughter.
The air conditioner was down, and sweat dripped from my face as I struggled with the last name on the roll. After getting the room quiet, I instructed the students to "write an in-class essay of no more than 500 words describing at least three positive or negative things about your high school." I told them I would read the essays and return them the next time we met.
"This is a diagnostic essay, " I said. "I won't grade it. I simply want to see how well you write. If you plan to major in journalism, I want to see you after class. I will hand out the syllabus next time."
After class, just two female students said they wanted to major in journalism. During office hours and lunch, I read the essays. I wondered what I had gotten myself into when only one paper demonstrated college-level writing. During my 18 years of previous college teaching, I had never seen such poor writing - sentence fragments, run-on sentences, misspellings, wrong words and illogical word order.
From one paper: "In my high school, prejudism were bad and people feel like nothing." From another essay: "Central High kids put there nose in other people concern."
I was surprised and disappointed that the two prospective journalism majors had as many mistakes in their copy as their classmates.
I shared the results with a colleague who had taught journalism and English at Stillman for three years. Her response was discouraging. The abysmal writing was par for the course, and I had better brace myself if I intended to keep my sanity.
'I ain't taking this class'
That afternoon, I met my opinion writing and news writing/reporting classes. I had five students in one and seven in the other. Again, I called the roll and took writing samples. That night at home, I eagerly read the papers. These budding journalism majors were the reason I came to Stillman.
But after an hour of reading, I did not see how any of them would become reporters and editors without superhuman efforts on their part and mine. None had any sense of how a news article comes together. None knew how to write a compelling lead or how to use the active voice. Only one, a young woman in the opinion writing class, had written for a high school newspaper.
During the next class meetings, I returned the papers. I did not mark the work, but I explained the writing was disappointingly bad and that they would have to work overtime to learn to write at an acceptable level. All except the one student who had a decent essay were outraged.
"I thought this was going to be a real English class, " a student said.
I asked her which high school she had attended and what she meant. The Selma High School graduate said her English teacher had let students spend most of their time discussing current events and writing short paragraphs. They wrote one essay all term. Most of the other students nodded approvingly. I did not tell the class that Selma High was considered to be academically inferior. I did tell them we would follow the syllabus, which required eight essays and four revisions. I also told them they would have to complete the grammar quizzes in the textbook. Everyone, except the competent writer, groaned.
"I ain't taking this class, " one of the students who had been in front of King Hall said. He stood, nodded to his three friends and walked out of the room. One of them followed. The other two stared at me and scowled for the remainder of the period.
The journalism students in the other two classes accepted my criticism without grumbling. In fact, they were pleased with the prospect of learning how to write "like real reporters, " said Kristin Heard, a freshman from Montgomery.
'The endangered chair'
Even as I attended my first faculty meeting in those first few days, I sensed I might not belong at Stillman. During a break, I went to the refreshment table for orange juice. I spoke to two black professors already there.
"You're Bill Maxwell, right?" one asked.
"Right, " I said.
"The new endowed chair, " he said slyly.
"The endangered chair, " the other said.
They had a big laugh at my expense.
"It's scholar-in-residence, " I said, trying to save face.
By the beginning of my second year, I would find myself alienated from most of the senior administrators and most of the longtime staff members who were responsible for the day-to-day operations of the institution.
My alienation, a colleague told me, was the result of a disease found at most HBCUs: professional jealousy. The college president hired me as the "scholar in residence" on a 10-month contract for a modest salary. Some professors resented the arrangement because they had been there for several years and were earning the same or less.
In addition to re-establishing the journalism major, my duties included teaching at least three courses and advising the student newspaper. Unofficially, I was expected to be the guest speaker at select campus functions and assist with public relations.
At least two colleagues publicly complained that the president had created a job for me and was spending money unnecessarily. Several colleagues called me "McNealey's boy."
Although I considered the whole affair to be childish and foolish, I was offended and embarrassed.
Refusing to buy the book
After a week, I faced another problem that my seasoned colleagues knew well but failed to warn me about: Most Stillman students refuse to buy their required textbooks. I discovered the problem on a Friday when I met my English class to discuss the assigned essay in the text. They were to write an essay in response to the reading.
Only one student, the young man who wrote well, had read the essay. He had the text in front of him. The others had not purchased the text. I warned them that if they returned to class without their books, they would receive an F. But only five of 31 students brought their texts to the next class.
Most students had book vouchers as part of their financial aid, so I told those without books to walk with me to the bookstore, a distance of about three football fields. Some did not follow me, and I tried to remember who they were. At the store I watched students wander around, obviously trying to avoid buying the book. Only about eight wound up buying one.
I became angry that I had to deal with such a self-destructive, juvenile problem. I saw the refusal to buy the text as a collective act of defiance. I knew that if I lost this battle, I would not have any control in this class and no respect.
The next Monday, I went to class dreading a showdown. While calling the roll, I asked the students to show me their texts. Eighteen still did not have them. One said he had bought the book but left it in his dorm room "by mistake." I told him to go get it. He gathered his belongings and left. He never came to class again.
As promised, I recorded an F for all students who did not bring their texts. The last two young men from in front of King Hall walked out. I saw myself as having failed them as a professor, but I was relieved they were gone.
I also decided to take away students' excuses for not having access to the texts. I personally bought two copies of each book and put them on reserve in the library. From time to time, I would check to see who had used them. During the entire semester, the books were used only six times.
Below average by most measures
As I settled into my routine at Stillman that first fall, I researched the backgrounds of the students in the English class. None had an SAT score above 1000. The average combined SAT score for the nation was 1026; the best possible score was 1600.
None of them had taken advanced placement courses in school. Of the 33 students, 21 came from single-parent, low-income families who lived mostly in Alabama. Some came from the state's Black Belt, one of the poorest areas in the nation with some of the worst public schools. The Black Belt's most famous town is Selma, home of the Edmund Pettus Bridge and the site of "Bloody Sunday, " where state troopers and sheriff's deputies beat hundreds of civil rights marchers on March 7, 1965.
Of the nearly 1, 000 students on campus, all but 100 or so received financial aid and loans. Nearly everyone qualified for federal Pell grants. I had come to campus having read studies showing that students in this demographic group tend to perform below average by most academic measures.
Instead of being disheartened, I remembered I was much like my students as a 17-year-old freshman at Wiley College not knowing what to expect. Unlike the majority of my students at Stillman, though, I was an avid reader. Even at age 13, I knew that I wanted be a writer. I was determined to learn my first day at Wiley, which I attended from 1963 to 1965.
I played football my first semester. During the second semester, I gave up my football scholarship and got a federal student loan. I wanted to devote all of my time to my studies and to reading on my own. And I was not alone. Many of my schoolmates were similarly inspired after a few months on our tiny East Texas campus.
I also had caring professors who introduced the life of the mind to this kid reared as a migrant farm worker in labor camps up and down the eastern United States. My professors were intellectuals, and I wanted to be just like them. Our professors - whether we liked them or hated them - were gods, and we were to learn all we could from them.
For many of us, Wiley was the only opportunity to earn a four-year degree. Jim Crow barred us from most colleges and universities in the South, and our low ACT and SAT scores disqualified us from attending most other campuses nationwide. Wiley was our lifeline to professional success. And we knew it.
Highly dedicated teachers
While students at Stillman often had a lower assessment of their professors, there were some highly dedicated teachers who were not there for money or fame. Most earned doctorates from some of the nation's best universities. Of the college's 88 full-time professors during my time there, about 70 percent were white. Stillman was typical of the overwhelming majority of other HBCUs, where white professors outnumber black professors, a trend pejoratively referred to as the "whitening" of the HBCU faculty. A major reason for this phenomenon is that mainline universities seeking ethnic diversity on their faculties heavily recruit new black Ph.D.s and specialists. Another reason is that many black Ph.D.s see teaching at the HBCU as being "drudge work" - a step down, not a step up.
As far as I could tell, black and white professors were collegial to one another, and I never heard of any serious racial conflicts. I did hear several black students complain about having so many white professors in a historically black environment.
One student, Jillian Freeman, a freshman cheerleader, said: "I came here because I wanted black professors, but most of my professors are white. I don't like this."
Before coming to Stillman, I had heard and read about the so-called inferiority of the professors at HBCUs. Because Stillman was essentially a teaching institution, the "publish or perish" rule did not apply. But I was surprised that many of my colleagues still had impressive scholarly publications.
I have taught at several other colleges, and I must say that Stillman's faculty, despite the low salaries, is highly competent. I regularly sat in on lectures that were outstanding. Most are dedicated to the institution and to the students. On any given night, many professors return to campus to attend student events. Professors also routinely spent their own money for field trips and classroom supplies.
The college had precious few young professors because they could not support their families on the low salaries. Only older people who had spouses earning decent salaries or who had other sources of income could teach at Stillman without struggling financially. I supplemented my much-envied salary with two small pensions and money from freelance writing.
An ally at my side
Lucinda Coulter was one of the bright lights at Stillman and an ally in the mission to groom young journalists. The professor, who is white, had a doctorate in American literature and had written for several magazines. She was a journalism instructor at the University of Alabama until she was hired at Stillman for a tenure-track position in 2000.
It wasn't an easy transition.
"During my first semester, I was overwhelmed with the workload, " she told me during one of our gripe sessions. "I taught five classes and revitalized the student newspaper. The president had shut it down. It had become unprofessional. It looked like a yearbook instead of a newspaper.
"I was discouraged by the end of the year because of the workload. I returned the next year only because the faculty members in the English department were so supportive. We became close friends. We felt a common bond because we had a handful of genuinely wonderful kids."
We quickly developed a similar bond as we each taught about a dozen journalism students my first semester. Together we urged the students to read the Tuscaloosa News, which cost 50 cents, so we could discuss the news and how the newspaper approached it. But the newspaper had long ago removed its lone paper rack from Stillman's campus because of theft and vandalism. The nearest racks were several blocks away at two gas stations. None of our students would walk that far to buy the newspaper, and only a few would go online to read it.
"If you want to be a piano player, " I often said in class, "you have to practice playing the piano. If you want to be a reporter, you have to read newspapers."
Hardly any students brought the newspaper to class. So Lucinda and I used our own money to buy each student a copy of the Tuscaloosa News every morning. The students repaid us for about three weeks, but when they stopped we kept buying it anyway. We knew some of them were living from hand to mouth. We also bought enough copies of the New York Times, the Birmingham News and USA Today for the students to share each day.
Newspapers weren't all we bought. Students at other college newspapers have plenty of camera equipment. We bought dozens of disposable cameras for students to take photographs to go along with their stories for the student newspaper, the Tiger's Paw. We changed the name to The Advance, a more mature-sounding name, during my second semester.
While many college newspapers are printed daily or weekly, we struggled to publish one edition each semester. Of the 12 students on the newspaper staff when I arrived, eight were English majors and only three had journalism experience in high school.
Few efforts in academia are tougher than trying to teach English majors how to write like journalists. English majors tend to believe that complicated prose and obfuscation are smart. Clear prose - the bread and butter of journalism - is considered unsophisticated and incapable of conveying deep thought and important ideas.
I had a hard time getting students to use short words instead of long ones: "ended" instead of "terminated;" "use" instead of "utilization;" "aim" instead of "objective."
Constance Bayne, a freshman from Tennessee, was an immediate exception. After I graded three of her stories, she had an epiphany during an individual grading session.
"I see what you mean, " she said, studying my revision of one of her attempts at pomposity. "Yours is better. It's real easy to read."
"That's what we always want, " I said. "Simplicity is elegant."
She smiled and read the rest of my revisions.
The messages were lost
I tried my best to cultivate a love of language and reading. Two sayings were on my office door. One was a Chinese proverb: "It is only through daily reading that you refresh your mind sufficiently to speak wisely." The other came from me: "Being Smart is Acting Black."
But the messages were lost on students who had read so little growing up and had never acquired basic academic skills. I was not surprised to learn that only two of my students had read more than three of the books most high school students have read, books such as Moby Dick, The Sun Also Rises, The Color Purple and Invisible Man.
Those of us who were teaching the required general education courses - all of us from the nation's respected universities, such as the University of Chicago, Indiana University, the University of Florida and Princeton - had to face a harsh reality. We primarily were practicing remediation.
Every day in my classes, I reviewed basic grammar and showed students how to use the dictionary effectively, lessons normally taught in elementary and middle school.
Homework was another major problem. Writing courses, especially journalism courses, are labor intensive for students and the professors. Reporting - going into the field, interviewing sources, finding official records and verifying information for accuracy - is essential. After most of my students continued to hand in articles that had only one interview, I began requiring at least four interviews, with the sources' telephone numbers, for each story. Most of the students balked and continued to hand in work with an insufficient number of interviews.
Meeting deadlines, a must in journalism, was yet another problem. Few of my students regularly met the Monday deadline. I would deduct a letter grade for each day the copy was late. Some students received F's on all of their work. To avoid flunking them, I let them write in class.
But that required them to show up, and I seldom had all students present. Attending class seemed to be an inconvenience. The college had an official attendance policy, but few professors followed it strictly because most of our students would have flunked out before mid-term. On most days, I did not call the roll. I simply tried to remember who was present.
I recall the afternoon I sat alone in my room waiting for the seven students in the reporting class to show up. At 20 minutes past the hour, a white colleague peeked in and saw me in the otherwise empty room.
"You must've had a serious assignment due?" he said.
We had a big laugh. But it was a painful laugh.
"It's the Stillman way, " he said. "A lot of these kids won't attend class, and, when they do, they walk in late. They're on CPT (Colored People's Time)."
Although I laughed with my colleague, I was ashamed that a white person so easily joked about CPT.
"They don't have intellectual curiosity, " I said. "We weren't like that at Wiley or Bethune-Cookman."
"I know what you mean."
This time, we did not laugh. I gathered my books and newspapers, turned out the lights and left.
I hardly ever saw anyone take notes during lectures in the English class. Instead, I had to regularly chastise students for text messaging their friends and relatives and for going online to read messages and send messages. The college issued free laptops to all students who maintained a passing grade-point average.
When I confronted students about text messaging, I was met with hostility. I even had a few students leave class to make calls or send text messages. Two male students threatened to physically attack Lucinda and another female professor because they demanded that the students put away their laptops in class.
Each time, I would leave the English class exhausted, angry and sad. I would go home on many evenings during my first month wanting to cry, and things didn't get much better as the year progressed.
I had come to Stillman on the mission of my life: I wanted to be of use, to help "uplift the race" as my professors had taught me. But as my first school year ended in the spring, instead of feeling useful and as if I were helping to uplift the race, I was feeling helpless and irrelevant.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1762 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Thu 07 Jun 2007 14:55 Post subject:
Amazing article. I believe we'll be talking about how low Black achievers predominate the country in 20 years. Within the same 20 years, many of the children of the illegal immigrants will have become successfull in business or other endeavors.
I think the situation for Blacks, particularly young Blacks, has become worse over the years, not because of racism. It's not only Blacks though, I see it with many young Whites as well. It's the culture.
Amazing article. I believe we'll be talking about how low Black achievers predominate the country in 20 years. Within the same 20 years, many of the children of the illegal immigrants will have become successfull in business or other endeavors.
If my area is any indication, I doubt it. The children of illegal (Hispanic) immigrants are more likely to drop out of school and join gangs. Gangs are a serious problem where I live. I believe in California, your average prison inmate is Hispanic.
DChapman wrote:
I think the situation for Blacks, particularly young Blacks, has become worse over the years, not because of racism. It's not only Blacks though, I see it with many young Whites as well. It's the culture.
Collectively yes, but for the least of the black population, much worse. There will always be a segment of the black population that does well, but the poorer segment will see itself getting worse economically and culturally; their situation will become more entrenched and they will be even more isolated than they are now. What's presented in that article will become much worse and there will be the same amount of resistance to discussing the situation honestly. The same thing will happen to the low-income white population too.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1762 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Thu 07 Jun 2007 15:57 Post subject:
GMan wrote:
Collectively yes, but for the least of the black population, much worse. There will always be a segment of the black population that does well, but the poorer segment will see itself getting worse economically and culturally; their situation will become more entrenched and they will be even more isolated than they are now. What's presented in that article will become much worse and there will be the same amount of resistance to discussing the situation honestly. The same thing will happen to the low-income white population too.
The only thing is, Gordon, is that I see this increasingly with middle class and upper middle class Black youths, something I did not when I was growing up. The "behaviour" was mainly relegated to the "ghetto". Not so anymore, thi is what scares me.
Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A.
Posted: Thu 07 Jun 2007 15:58 Post subject:
Patience wrote:
Quote:
Sankofa wrote:
Quote:
A Jew media cabal?
Yes, IMO. Who owns most of the American Media and who runs the multinational corporations that own the Media? Who controls the images that are being shown in American cinema/television/radio/Media?
Perhaps this belongs in a different thread but I have to ask:
I need someone, (American) to explain to me what is the history behind why some African Americans see Jews in this way? Is it to do with the African American Islamic movement? (That's the only think I could think of.)
In what way is that? "Jews" do control the Media because the people who are in key executive positions ARE Jewish. When I say "the Media", please notice the upper case lettering used. It means that by Media, I'm talking about all forms of media - from TV Movies Newspapers Radio Recording Industry, etc. That's not a lie and that's not bigoted at all. It's a fact that can't be changed because someone doesn't like it. Sound familiar?
All one has to do is look right after a television show/movie. Watch the credits and see who are the Executive Producers and Creators of the shows/productions. I can guarantee you that most, if not all, of the key decision making/power positions will have a person with a typical Jewish surname. Check it out to see if I'm imagining this or not. Don't take my word for it... research it by paying attention to the rolling credits of any Television/Hollywood production. They will have Jewish surnames!
And High School Teacher is correct. Just because I, Sankofa, who is "Black-identified", says these things does not mean that most "Blacks" feel this way. Most "Blacks" could care less, really, which "White" people control television/Hollywood... because most "Blacks", on average, think it's all the same (don't differentiate between which specific ethnic group the "White" belongs to... their all "White-identified"). In other words, "Jews" are synonymous with "White" people. It's not totally accurate, but it is socially accepted because I've never met an American "Jew" who didn't say they weren't "White".
And "Jews" are just as guilty of not trusting/disliking "Blacks" as "Blacks" are of them or anybody else who is seen as "Anti-Jewish". The ADL are the "real" "race police" if there is one, IMO. Nobody can even disagree with Jewish interests without being labled "Anti-Jewish". And people have the nerve to exclusively charge "Blacks" with these same allegations.
Powell
That story about the Journalism dept at Stillman is depressing. I wonder if that is the prevailing attitudes of students of the other departments at that HBCU? It seems to just be about re-juvenating the Journalism department to be accredited as a Major. Just because this is happening at one HBCU within one department doesn't mean this is representative of the typical student you'll find at all or even most HBCUs. It depends largely on the "quality" of the student body and the school's curriculum, as well. The HBCU I went to has an excellant Engineering, Nursing, Business and Agriculture programs that offer advanced degress (Prairie View A&M University).
Young people (no matter what color and/or ethnicity) are pretty much "slackers" and need constant motivation in order to achieve success in almost everything until they are mature enough to know better. You can find that same attitude amongst Community College students across America, maybe even the world, no matter who they are or where they come from. Unfortunately, if the college student graduated from an unaccredited high school then a professor can almost expect the student to be behind the students who graduated from accredited high schools. It seems Stillman has a lot of students that are probably from very poor economic neighborhoods that more than likely had unaccredited high schools. They can do it too, but it will take a lot of work on both the student and the professor to make it work, IMO. After Freshmen year, the student should sink or swim with no "babying", IMO.
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), like to convolute 'race loyalty' with socio-political opinion, behavorial standards, and/or cultural bias? 
Movies 
They can do it too, but it will take a lot of work on both the student and the professor to make it work, IMO. After Freshmen year, the student should sink or swim with no "babying", IMO.