Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Sat 09 Jun 2007 06:49 Post subject:
G-Man:
Quote:
In the U.S. context a Jew being racist toward blacks is, IMO, no more strange than any other white ethnic's racism toward blacks. In my experience, though, black folks I know seem to have a particular distaste for Jews (read Sankofa's remarks) compared to other whites. Some of this is rooted in the tortured historical relationship between the two in urban environments. The relationship was paternalistic (as most relationships between blacks and Jews were) and Jews often played the urban middle man merchant role Koreans and others play today. This hasn't endeared them to black people in the past, but strangely, many black people today still see Jews as the urban blood sucker merchant, despite the fact that Jews have ceased playing this role for 40 years.
I agree with most of this. My personal experience and observation are somewhat different, however. I notice that some Jews have a particular distaste for blacks who reject the paternalistic relationship that had evolved over many decades prior to the Civil Rights movement. Here I’m not just talking about the usual rebel rousers; this extends, perhaps more vehemently, to those blacks that may be considered ‘mainstream’ (e.g. Andrew Young). When respectable black folks ‘get out of line’ then that tends to cause special consternation.
I also noticed that some of the more notable race scientists espousing black intellectual inferiority happen to be Jewish (e.g. Richard J. Herrnstein and J. Phillipe Rushton immediately come to mind). Needless to say, I find any Jewish person conscious of his/her own history of discrimination espousing or harboring notions of black inferiority to be strange (in fact, stranger than other white ethnics) to say the least.
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Sat 09 Jun 2007 20:57 Post subject:
High School Teacher wrote:
G-Man:
Quote:
In the U.S. context a Jew being racist toward blacks is, IMO, no more strange than any other white ethnic's racism toward blacks. In my experience, though, black folks I know seem to have a particular distaste for Jews (read Sankofa's remarks) compared to other whites. Some of this is rooted in the tortured historical relationship between the two in urban environments. The relationship was paternalistic (as most relationships between blacks and Jews were) and Jews often played the urban middle man merchant role Koreans and others play today. This hasn't endeared them to black people in the past, but strangely, many black people today still see Jews as the urban blood sucker merchant, despite the fact that Jews have ceased playing this role for 40 years.
I agree with most of this. My personal experience and observation are somewhat different, however. I notice that some Jews have a particular distaste for blacks who reject the paternalistic relationship that had evolved over many decades prior to the Civil Rights movement. Here I’m not just talking about the usual rebel rousers; this extends, perhaps more vehemently, to those blacks that may be considered ‘mainstream’ (e.g. Andrew Young). When respectable black folks ‘get out of line’ then that tends to cause special consternation.
I also noticed that some of the more notable race scientists espousing black intellectual inferiority happen to be Jewish (e.g. Richard J. Herrnstein and J. Phillipe Rushton immediately come to mind). Needless to say, I find any Jewish person conscious of his/her own history of discrimination espousing or harboring notions of black inferiority to be strange (in fact, stranger than other white ethnics) to say the least.
Well, that's the thing about stupidity. It never discriminates. We all have an equal opportunity to be equally stupid.
In the U.S. context a Jew being racist toward blacks is, IMO, no more strange than any other white ethnic's racism toward blacks. In my experience, though, black folks I know seem to have a particular distaste for Jews (read Sankofa's remarks) compared to other whites. Some of this is rooted in the tortured historical relationship between the two in urban environments. The relationship was paternalistic (as most relationships between blacks and Jews were) and Jews often played the urban middle man merchant role Koreans and others play today. This hasn't endeared them to black people in the past, but strangely, many black people today still see Jews as the urban blood sucker merchant, despite the fact that Jews have ceased playing this role for 40 years.
I agree with most of this. My personal experience and observation are somewhat different, however. I notice that some Jews have a particular distaste for blacks who reject the paternalistic relationship that had evolved over many decades prior to the Civil Rights movement. Here I’m not just talking about the usual rebel rousers; this extends, perhaps more vehemently, to those blacks that may be considered ‘mainstream’ (e.g. Andrew Young). When respectable black folks ‘get out of line’ then that tends to cause special consternation.
I also noticed that some of the more notable race scientists espousing black intellectual inferiority happen to be Jewish (e.g. Richard J. Herrnstein and J. Phillipe Rushton immediately come to mind). Needless to say, I find any Jewish person conscious of his/her own history of discrimination espousing or harboring notions of black inferiority to be strange (in fact, stranger than other white ethnics) to say the least.
Rushton is Jewish? That's news to me. I always thought he was a white Gentile from South Africa. I should add that some white nationalists are Jewish: Lawrence Auster, Dr. Michael Levin, Dr. Michael Hart. For more information on Jewish white nationalists, read Carol Swain's The New White Nationalism. However, most Jews aren't partial to white nationalism, and one would probably find more success in finding converts within the non-Jewish white community. For more information on Jewish paternalism and black people’s “Jewish problem” an excellent source in Harold Cruse’s “Crisis of the Negro Intellectual” and his article “My Jewish Problem and Ours”(at least I think that’s the name of the article).
My own take on things is having a history of persecution doesn't make you immune to embracing ideas of other people's inferiority. A Jew's belief that blacks are inferior is no odder to me than an Armenian or Armenian American's belief in the same, unless they were raised in a liberal Jewish urban milieu. Granted Ashkenazi Jews have had a more intimate relationship with blacks than Armenians, but both have a history of persecution and both aren't immune to racist attitudes.
Rushton was born in Bournemouth, England. His father was a building contractor, and his mother, who was French, gave him his middle name. During his childhood, he emigrated with his family to South Africa where he lived from age 4 to 8 (1948-1952). Later, Rushton moved to Canada. Rushton received a B.Sc. in psychology from Birkbeck College at the University of London in 1970 and in 1973 received his Ph.D. from the London School of Economics, working on altruism in children. He then moved to the University of Oxford where he continued his work until 1974. Rushton taught at York University in Canada from 1974-1976 and the University of Toronto until 1977. He then moved to the University of Western Ontario, and was made a full professor there in 1985. Rushton has published more than 250 papers and articles and six books, including two on altruism, one on 'scientific excellence', and a co-authored introductory psychology textbook.[2] Over ten of his papers have appeared in Intelligence a journal for which Rushton sits on the editorial board along with seven other signatories of "Mainstream Science on Intelligence". [3] Another signatory, Douglas K. Detterman, is also its founder and Editor-in-Chief.
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 15:38 Post subject:
Otorongo wrote:
Not Jewish
Rushton was born in Bournemouth, England. His father was a building contractor, and his mother, who was French, gave him his middle name. During his childhood, he emigrated with his family to South Africa where he lived from age 4 to 8 (1948-1952). Later, Rushton moved to Canada. Rushton received a B.Sc. in psychology from Birkbeck College at the University of London in 1970 and in 1973 received his Ph.D. from the London School of Economics, working on altruism in children. He then moved to the University of Oxford where he continued his work until 1974. Rushton taught at York University in Canada from 1974-1976 and the University of Toronto until 1977. He then moved to the University of Western Ontario, and was made a full professor there in 1985. Rushton has published more than 250 papers and articles and six books, including two on altruism, one on 'scientific excellence', and a co-authored introductory psychology textbook.[2] Over ten of his papers have appeared in Intelligence a journal for which Rushton sits on the editorial board along with seven other signatories of "Mainstream Science on Intelligence". [3] Another signatory, Douglas K. Detterman, is also its founder and Editor-in-Chief.
You're probably right. I must have confused him with Arthur Jensen when I initially posted his name.
Rushton was born in Bournemouth, England. His father was a building contractor, and his mother, who was French, gave him his middle name. During his childhood, he emigrated with his family to South Africa where he lived from age 4 to 8 (1948-1952). Later, Rushton moved to Canada. Rushton received a B.Sc. in psychology from Birkbeck College at the University of London in 1970 and in 1973 received his Ph.D. from the London School of Economics, working on altruism in children. He then moved to the University of Oxford where he continued his work until 1974. Rushton taught at York University in Canada from 1974-1976 and the University of Toronto until 1977. He then moved to the University of Western Ontario, and was made a full professor there in 1985. Rushton has published more than 250 papers and articles and six books, including two on altruism, one on 'scientific excellence', and a co-authored introductory psychology textbook.[2] Over ten of his papers have appeared in Intelligence a journal for which Rushton sits on the editorial board along with seven other signatories of "Mainstream Science on Intelligence". [3] Another signatory, Douglas K. Detterman, is also its founder and Editor-in-Chief.
You're probably right. I must have confused him with Arthur Jensen when I initially posted his name.
Joined: 13 Mar 2007 {Posts: 261 } Location: Canada
Posted: Mon 11 Jun 2007 17:20 Post subject:
Otorongo wrote:
Not Jewish
Rushton was born in Bournemouth, England. His father was a building contractor, and his mother, who was French, gave him his middle name. During his childhood, he emigrated with his family to South Africa where he lived from age 4 to 8 (1948-1952). Later, Rushton moved to Canada. Rushton received a B.Sc. in psychology from Birkbeck College at the University of London in 1970 and in 1973 received his Ph.D. from the London School of Economics, working on altruism in children. He then moved to the University of Oxford where he continued his work until 1974. Rushton taught at York University in Canada from 1974-1976 and the University of Toronto until 1977. He then moved to the University of Western Ontario, and was made a full professor there in 1985. Rushton has published more than 250 papers and articles and six books, including two on altruism, one on 'scientific excellence', and a co-authored introductory psychology textbook.[2] Over ten of his papers have appeared in Intelligence a journal for which Rushton sits on the editorial board along with seven other signatories of "Mainstream Science on Intelligence". [3] Another signatory, Douglas K. Detterman, is also its founder and Editor-in-Chief.
FYI things that are not included in the above.
Rushton had tenure at UWO prior it became known that he believed, among other things, that measuring a man's penis was a viable investigative tool in psychology. So far he remains at the university where he has tenure.
The Premier of Ontario referred to Rushton's ideas as "offensive to the way Ontario thinks".
The Attorney-General of Canada did not charge him with hate crimes because his ideas were "loony, but not criminal".
I don't know of any supporters of his theories in this country but in the U.S. the list includes:
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