Oh please. One fotos of webposters mean nothing because most f the people who are poor migrant workers do not come from families that have internet.
Two, show me genetic studies for each of those towns. If not, it is just your opinion, three show evidence.
3 Jalisco,5 Guanajuato, 1 Nuevo Leon,2 Coahuila are represented.
Both Coahuila and Guanajuato are more Indigenous than anything else.
Show your DNA studies. And your evidence of migration patterns while you are at it.
Oh Yeah, that was a Huichol. Nice try.
Durango
Predominantly Native American
The high HP*1 allele frequency (0.630) observed in the urban population of the city of Durango is different from literature data regarding urban Mexicans [10], and suggests that the proportion of White genes in Durango is lower than the admixture estimates in other Mexican states (30–40%). So, the Indian ancestral genes are predominant
whereas the admixture of Spanish genes is less prominent in Durango.
San Luis Potosi
Predominantly European
Zacatecas
Predominantly European
Guanajuato
Predominantly Native American
Nuevo Leon
Predominantly European
Coahuila
Predominantly Native American
Oh please. One fotos of webposters mean nothing because most f the people who are poor migrant workers do not come from families that have internet.
Two, show me genetic studies for each of those towns. If not, it is just your opinion, three show evidence.
3 Jalisco,5 Guanajuato, 1 Nuevo Leon,2 Coahuila are represented.
Both Coahuila and Guanajuato are more Indigenous than anything else.
Show your DNA studies. And your evidence of migration patterns while you are at it.
Oh Yeah, that was a Huichol. Nice try.
Durango
Predominantly Native American
The high HP*1 allele frequency (0.630) observed in the urban population of the city of Durango is different from literature data regarding urban Mexicans [10], and suggests that the proportion of White genes in Durango is lower than the admixture estimates in other Mexican states (30–40%). So, the Indian ancestral genes are predominant
whereas the admixture of Spanish genes is less prominent in Durango.
San Luis Potosi
Predominantly European
Zacatecas
Predominantly European
Guanajuato
Predominantly Native American
Nuevo Leon
Predominantly European
Coahuila
Predominantly Native American
From your link North Central Mexico.
THERE IS ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO aFRICAN BLOOD IN MONTERREY. I HAVE always said it and your own link says so. I love it.
Quote:
By contrast, the rest of Mexico exhibits lower African-admixture estimates, ranging from 0% in Monterrey to 18.1% in Cuanalan (Crawford et al. 1976; Cerda-Flores and Garza-Chapa 1989).
Salsin you still haven't answered my question. Why is the average Mexican-American more Spanish than Amerindian,if most 90% of Mexican-Americans immigranted from areas that wasn't the D.F. ,Guadalajara and Monterrey.Supposely lmaoo only those areas are more Spanish than amerindian.
I will give you an Example,the people from Chihuahua on average are more Caucasian and lighter skin than Chilangos(D.F.)and the people who post on the chalino site were i got the pics are of Mexican lower class IMMIGRANTS. Chalino music is from Mexico's poor who are from Pueblos and Ranchos.So the myth that Mexico's lower class from Northern and Northwestern Mexico and Western Mexico is mostly Amerindian looking was shot down by me .
Salssin most Mexican immigrants 95% ,are not migrant workers. So why should i show 5% of Mexican immigrant population for the average Mexican from Chihuahua.It makes no sense.
And it was you who only showed one photo of Huicholes and tried to pass them off as the average Chuahuense which is bull. The picture of the girls i posted and i posted many are more accurate of the average Chuahuense. I have visted the state . Have you ever visted the state? No you haven't ,i wonder why you think you know more than me about Mexican migration,Mexican historic migration, and Mexico's racial democgraphy.
MEXICAN HISTORIC MIGRATION PATTERNS
Quote:
In general, therefore, we do not find a "changing profile" of Mexican migrants during the 1980s. Rather, despite a few changes, we perceive a remarkable continuity in trends and patterns. Maintaining a pattern that dates back at least to the 1940s and perhaps even to 1900, recent outflows continue to be dominated by migrants from a handful of western states: principally Guanajuato, Jalisco, and Michoacán, and to a lesser extent Durango, San Luis Potosí, and Zacatecas. Together these six states have consistently accounted for about half of all Mexico-U.S. migrants, with the border states comprising another 30 percent and the central states making up the remaining 20 percent. Emigration to the United States also does not seem to be becoming more urban. Rather, it has tended to bifurcate, with greater percentages coming from both small towns and large metropolitan areas. Over time, emigration has also become less selective with respect to education, suggesting that the outflow has increasingly been one of the rural and urban poor, predominantly from the western states.
Durango has more Spanish than Amerindian blood. Look at this site. These are typical looking Duranguense girls. I have been there and yes these pics reflect the reality of Durango. To many pics to post so visit the site. Remember these girls come from Durango's lower class and are immigrants or children of poor Mexican immigrants.
THOSE STUDIES MEAN NOTHING. VISIT THE STATES TO REALLY see the reality. You would question the studies after you visit those states.
LMAOOO Durango more Amerindian. haha!
These girls are on average 60% Spanish,40% Amerindian and of Mexico's poor class from Durango. Durango was not full of Amerindians when the Spaniards arrived.
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Last edited by Garciaparra on Sat 23 Jun 2007 08:13; edited 2 times in total
And let me add that the average person from Chihuahua,Durango,
Coahuila,Sonora ,Sinaloa look no different than the Average person from Nuevo Leon ,Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi. The latter 3 states are more European than Amerindian. But Jalisco has more Euro-Mestizos with green ,hazel and Blue eyes.
From your link North Central Mexico.
THERE IS ZEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO aFRICAN BLOOD IN MONTERREY. I HAVE always said it and your own link says so. I love it.
Yes, in Cerda Flores 1989 study. But when he retested in 2002 with more advanced knowledge in genetic markers, he found about 5%. Sorry.
Quote:
Salsin you still haven't answered my question. Why is the average Mexican-American more Spanish than Amerindian,if most 90% of Mexican-Americans immigranted from areas that wasn't the D.F. ,Guadalajara and Monterrey.Supposely lmaoo only those areas are more Spanish than amerindian.
Simple. Because most Mexican Americans have been living in the US for many generations and their experiences here are not the same as over there. They have mixed more over here. Furthermore, by your own article, most migration was from the north which did not have as much African and Native as the South. When you average all of Mexican Americans vs all of Mexico, Mexico is different because it factors both north and south. And again, in later migrations, again, per your article, more people have started to come from the South which are darker.
Quote:
I will give you an Example,the people from Chihuahua on average are more Caucasian and lighter skin than Chilangos(D.F.)and the people who post on the chalino site were i got the pics are of Mexican lower class IMMIGRANTS. Chalino music is from Mexico's poor who are from Pueblos and Ranchos.So the myth that Mexico's lower class from Northern and Northwestern Mexico and Western Mexico is mostly Amerindian looking was shot down by me .
Sorry bub. Most poor people do not have access to internet. So people posting on the Chalino site are at least middle class or with enough resources to have a computer or pay for use of a computer booth (and purchase a digital cam.
Quote:
Salssin most Mexican immigrants 95% ,are not migrant workers. So why should i show 5% of Mexican immigrant population for the average Mexican from Chihuahua.It makes no sense.
Strawman as i showed no such stats.
Quote:
And it was you who only showed one photo of Huicholes and tried to pass them off as the average Chuahuense which is bull. The picture of the girls i posted and i posted many are more accurate of the average Chuahuense. I have visted the state . Have you ever visted the state? No you haven't ,i wonder why you think you know more than me about Mexican migration,Mexican historic migration, and Mexico's racial democgraphy.
LOL. Your ignorance and bias has been posted multiple times on this board so your hearsay opinion backed up with no resources that actually show statistics mean little on this board.
As to where I have been: Monterey, Guadalajara, DF, Puerto Vallarta, Veracruz, Cuernavaca, Acapulco, Merida, Cancun.
Quote:
Durango has more Spanish than Amerindian blood. Look at this site. These are typical looking Duranguense girls. I have been there and yes these pics reflect the reality of Durango. To many pics to post so visit the site. Remember these girls come from Durango's lower class and are immigrants or children of poor Mexican immigrants.
THOSE STUDIES MEAN NOTHING. VISIT THE STATES TO REALLY see the reality. You would question the studies after you visit those states.
LMAOOO Durango more Amerindian. haha!
Like I said, your eyeballing or use of internet accessible women mean little on this site. Hard evidence does.
Garciaparra wrote:
And let me add that the average person from Chihuahua,Durango,
Coahuila,Sonora ,Sinaloa look no different than the Average person from Nuevo Leon ,Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi. The latter 3 states are more European than Amerindian. But Jalisco has more Euro-Mestizos with green ,hazel and Blue eyes.
Again, lack of hard evidence. But since you insist on making hard claims on fact instead of opinion, you have 24 hours to show your evidence in statistics.
Garciaparra wrote:
Salsin did you notice than the average immigrant girl from Durango looks like the typical Mexican-American girl you will find in Texas,California etc.
But according to you the average person from Durango is 70% Amerindian ,lmaoooo.
I didn't notice anything about looks as I wasn't paying attention to your selection of pictures. You have 24 hours to show where I stated that Durango is 70% Amerindian
Quote:
VISIT THE STATE of Durango AND VISIT OTHER PARTS OF Mexico.
Cancun,Acapulco don't really represent what the average Mexican immigrant looks like.
Cancun and Acapulco is mostly Indio-mestizos or pure Amerindians.
I have visited other parts. And 24 hours to back up the claim.
Salsin you are disputing the article you used for North Central Mexicans? You only pick and chose article that are convenient for you. Monterrey has zeroooooooooooooo black ancestry according to your article.
And WESTERN MEXICO HAS HISTORICALY SENT 50% OF MEXICO'S immigrants.States like Jalisco,Zacatecas,Durango,Michoacan,
Guanajuato,Zacatecas and San Luis Potosi.
You claim that most Mexicans were from Northern Mexico thats BS.
And Southern Mexico only accounts for 15% of Mexican migration and most head to the East Coast. Giving the impression that most Mexican immigrants are mostly Amerindian,which is false, look at the Chalino profiles,recent immigrants to the USA. They look Typical Mexican-Americans.
And they are not middle class.
Quote:
In general, therefore, we do not find a "changing profile" of Mexican migrants during the 1980s. Rather, despite a few changes, we perceive a remarkable continuity in trends and patterns. Maintaining a pattern that dates back at least to the 1940s and perhaps even to 1900, recent outflows continue to be dominated by migrants from a handful of western states: principally Guanajuato, Jalisco, and Michoacán, and to a lesser extent Durango, San Luis Potosí, and Zacatecas. Together these six states have consistently accounted for about half of all Mexico-U.S. migrants,
with the border states comprising another 30 percent and the central states making up the remaining 20 percent. Emigration to the United States also does not seem to be becoming more urban. Rather, it has tended to bifurcate, with greater percentages coming from both small towns and large metropolitan areas. Over time, emigration has also become less selective with respect to education, suggesting that the outflow has increasingly been one of the rural and urban poor, predominantly from the western states.
And the average Mexican-American is more Spanish because they came from more Euro-mestizo areas of Mexico. Read above from what states thy came from. VISIT those states,before you give your iGNORANT VIEWS.You tried to pass of a huichole for typical loooking Chihuahense ,your a joke.
And studies done on Mexican-Americans from Texas from the Border county of STARR is 97% Mexican origin, so i do't see how they could mix at all.Average Mex-American was 65% spanish,35% Amerindian which is the same from Northeastern Mexico. Guess why? Becuase most peoples origins from Star county are from Northeastern Mexico,Nuevo Leon,Tamalipas.
Gene diversity and estimation of genetic admixture among Mexican-Americans of Starr County, Texas.
The Mexican-Americans of Starr County, Texas, classified by sex and birthplace, were studied to determine the extent of genetic variation and contributions from ancestral populations such as Spanish, Amerindian and West African. Using 21 genetic marker systems, genetic distance and diversity analyses indicate that subpopulations of Mexican-Americans in Starr County are similar, and that more than 99% of the total gene diversity (HT) can be attributed to individual variation within the population. Genetic admixture analysis shows the predominant influence comes from the Spanish, a lesser contribution from Amerindians and a slight one from the West Africans. The contribution of the ancestral population to various subpopulations of the Mexican-Americans of Starr County is similar.THE MEXICAN-AMERICANS OF STARR COUNTY ARE SIMILAR to the Mexican population from NORTHWESTERN MEXICO . The history of admixture is apparently old enough to have brought the entire Mexican-American gene pool to Hardy-Weinberg equilibrium. There is no non-random association of alleles among the genetic marker systems considered in the present study, in spite of the fact that this population is of admixed origin. These results, in aggregate, suggest genetic homogeneity of the Mexican-Americans of Starr County, Texas, and point towards the utility of this population for genetic and epidemiological studies.
DO YOU KNOW WHAT GENETIC HOMOGENITY MEANS? THAT THEY DIDN'T MIX WITH THE ANGLOS.
Quote:
Individual admixture estimates: disease associations and individual risk of diabetes and gallbladder disease among Mexican-Americans in Starr County, Texas.
Hanis CL, Chakraborty R, Ferrell RE, Schull WJ.
The ethnic and geographic distributions of several common chronic diseases show distinct patterns that are consistent with the distribution of genes and genetic admixture. For example, diabetes and gallbladder disease occur most frequently among Amerindians, while those genetically admixed with them (such as Mexican-Americans) have intermediate rates, and lowest rates are found among Whites and Blacks. Because there will be heterogeneity from individual to individual in ancestral affinity within an admixed population, a method is developed for estimating each person's admixture probability. Results confirm that there is substantial heterogeneity of individual admixture among Mexican-Americans in Starr County, Texas, with a mean value indicating that 65% of genes in this population are Caucasian derived and 35% Amerindian derived. The individual estimates are shown to be unrelated to the probability of being diabetic and only marginally related to gallbladder disease, with those having the most Amerindian affinity being at increased risk. These results are a consequence of the independent assortment of loci and indicate that unless the markers employed are related (including linkage) to the disease of interest, the method will have limited utility. Individual admixture estimates will be useful, however, for examining aspects of population structure and will find increased utility for predicting disease and examining disease associations as more and more of the genome is represented by markers, a very probable prospect with the abundance of DNA polymorphism being identified by restriction enzymes.
Publication Types:
And next you are going to tell me that the girls on Chalino .com from Chihuahua,Durango miraclely got lighter skin once they crossed the border because according to you they are now mixed.
THEY LOOK typical Mexican-AMERICANS
Hey SALSIN, can you post pics on what the Typical Chilango(D.F.) looks like. They are darker than the average Mexican from Western,North Central Mexico and Northern Mexico.
here is a clue. these areas had few Amerindians from the begging, thats why these areas are mostly Euro-mestizo states. AND THOSE STATES ACCOUNT FOR 80% OF THE MEXICAN HISTORIC MIGRATION TO THE USA. Get a clue,think anaylsis for once.
Those girls on Chalino from those states look typical for their states. GO VISIT ,then come back with a serious answer not some excuse ,that i was selective, no i wasn't.
MEXICAN HISTORIC IMMIGRATION,Hasn't changed since 1900.
Quote:
In general, therefore, we do not find a "changing profile" of Mexican migrants during the 1980s. Rather, despite a few changes, we perceive a remarkable continuity in trends and patterns. Maintaining a pattern that dates back at least to the 1940s and perhaps even to 1900, recent outflows continue to be dominated by migrants from a handful of western states: principally Guanajuato, Jalisco, and Michoacán, and to a lesser extent Durango, San Luis Potosí, and Zacatecas. Together these six states have consistently accounted for about half of all Mexico-U.S. migrants,
with the border states comprising another 30 percent and the central states making up the remaining 20 percent. Emigration to the United States also does not seem to be becoming more urban. Rather, it has tended to bifurcate, with greater percentages coming from both small towns and large metropolitan areas. Over time, emigration has also become less selective with respect to education, suggesting that the outflow has increasingly been one of the rural and urban poor, predominantly from the western states.
link gente de Pueblos de Durango.I only went thru half the page.
As you notice these people are people from the Pueblos or immigrants going back to visit their hometowns(Pueblos)in Durango.
Notice how the girls look no different than Mexican-American girls.
These are Durangos poor people ,who either immigranted to the USA or still live there.
And notice how Durangos poorest people look More Spanish than the average poor person in the D.F. These town people(de Pueblos) from Durango are on average 50%-55% Spanish. while D.F. poor people are on average 35% Spanish.
And the Article that claimed that the poor Durangueses from the rural areas were 70% Amerindian is not very accurate at all.
Durango
Predominantly Native American
The high HP*1 allele frequency (0.630) observed in the urban population of the city of Durango is different from literature data regarding urban Mexicans [10], and suggests that the proportion of White genes in Durango is lower than the admixture estimates in other Mexican states (30–40%). So, the Indian ancestral genes are predominant
whereas the admixture of Spanish genes is less prominent in Durango.
1. Garciaparra just posted six messages within the space of a few minutes, before anyone could respond. Look, Tony, I have suspended you before for this, but you are doing it again. This consumes banwidth on our server to no purpose. When you submit a message, wait for an answer before submitting another. Everybody now and then forgets to say something and must add a supplement. But posting a blizzard of multiple messages at the same time seems to be your style. Please stop. This is a formal warning.
2. I deleted several dozen photos from one of your messages and replaced it with a single link to the source. You wrote, "I only went thru half the page." Thank God. Neither the other webmaster not I appreciate your displaying many dozens of photos from their website on this one. Please do not do it again. It consumes too much bandwidth on both servers and serves no useful purpose. Google can supprt this sort of thing but I cannot. They are running acres of supercomputers with massive optical cables. I have a single Dell and a TV cable line. From now on, just post links to the photos. If a reader wants to see them, he/she can click on the links.
3. Both Tony and Jaime: unless either of you has something new to add, I will end this thread and not allow you to re-start it elsewhere. Jaime just keeps posting more evidence of actual DNA genetic admixure. And Tony just keeps posting photos, unsubsantiated assertions (one of which Tony was called on but the moderator -- me -- has not acted), and claims that his eyeball examination of people contradicts Jaime's DNA evidence. Fine. We all get the point. Some people have admixture that is not visible to Tony. Gentlemen please, it is time to give it a rest.
Light brown and within the range of meditteranean people. Much darker brown is prevalent in Mexico proper.
AND YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THAT THIS HOMEBOY HAS A GRINGO ANCESTOR ? ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HE looks no different than the Mexicans from Western,North Central and Northern Mexico.
Nope just a European ancestor. And the average of Mexico in general is more indigenous than that of Mexican Americans (except for the newer immigration)
Both Tony and Jaime: unless either of you has something new to add, I will end this thread and not allow you to re-start it elsewhere. Jaime just keeps posting more evidence of actual DNA genetic admixure. And Tony just keeps posting photos, unsubsantiated assertions (one of which Tony was called on but the moderator -- me -- has not acted), and claims that his eyeball examination of people contradicts Jaime's DNA evidence.
Exactly, an unsubstantiated opinion stated as fact.
Light brown and within the range of meditteranean people. Much darker brown is prevalent in Mexico proper.
AND YOU ARE GOING TO TELL ME THAT THIS HOMEBOY HAS A GRINGO ANCESTOR ? ROFLMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
HE looks no different than the Mexicans from Western,North Central and Northern Mexico.
Nope just a European ancestor. And the average of Mexico in general is more indigenous than that of Mexican Americans (except for the newer immigration)
Yes the average Mexican-American is more Spanish than the average Mexican, but they look no different than the average Mexican from Western,North Central and Northern Mexico.
Mexican-American being more Spanish has nothing to do with them Mixing with anglos. Look at the Starr County average Mexican-American,in which 97% of the county is of Mexican origin,and share same genes with Northeastern Mexico.
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