The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' Miami Herald on "Afro Latin Americans" Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Latin America Author Message Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 20:21    Post subject: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 20:28    Post subject: An example of someone generally seen in the DR as black (because of alleged Haitian roots): José Francisco Peña Gómez Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Francisco_Pe%C3%B1a_G%C3%B3mez Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 20:30    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 20:43    Post subject: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Which means it is not a racial perception. Plus, the claim that all Dominicans straighten their hair is false. Yep those Dominican girls are all hiding their roots I tell ya. Back to top sagascend Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 21:37    Post subject: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Relaxed hair on a Afrodescended man is, at least in the modern U.S., not generally desirable to females or fashionable. Sharpton is one of the few Black male celebrities around who use relaxers (Katt Williams is another). Most Afrodescended American men wear their natural hair. Texturizing (i.e. the S-Curl) seems much more prevalent than outright relaxing. The few that I have seen who don't tend to come from lower socioeconomic and/or urban backgrounds or are making some sort of "pimpalicious" fashion statement. Back to top sagascend Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 21:51    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: Plus, the claim that all Dominicans straighten their hair is false. I don't think anyone is saying that all Dominicans straighten their hair. What I have said and what caribj has alluded to, is that so-called "African" hair or "bad" hair is not desirable or acceptable among Dominicans. It's a well-known fact among Afrodescended women in the U.S. that Dominican hairdressers focus intently on getting coiled hair straight, just like African hairdressers are most known for their braiding ability and Black American stylists for their creative styles with relaxed or natural hair. It appears to me, based on my personal experiences and observations, that having "good" hair is extremely important in Dominican culture if women are getting comments from strangers about their natural hair if it is not wavy, curly or relaxed into "good" hair. Black American culture appears to be much more accepting of natural hair and styles in 2007, especially in younger generations. I'd never say that so-called African hair is lauded or preferred in any new world culture, but there are degrees of acceptance. I certainly wouldn't attribute these attitudes in the DR to exposure to Haiti. The shape of those hair follicles comes from Africa, not Haiti, and the negative attitude towards it most certainly pre-dated any intra-island conflict on Hispaniola between the two countries. Back to top caribj Suspended Joined: 14 Mar 2007 {Posts: 612 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 22:24    Post subject: [quote="Salsassin"] G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? . Why dont you write a letter to the Miami Herald accusing them of spreading lies. Back to top caribj Suspended Joined: 14 Mar 2007 {Posts: 612 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 22:27    Post subject: fwsweet wrote: caribj wrote: The 10% comes from the DR census which regards 11% as being black, as defined in the DR. This is in error. Furthermore, since it has been discussed to death on this site (see http://onedroprule.org/viewtopic.php?p=0946#10946, for example), I suspect that it is deliberate falsification. You now have three outstanding moderator requests: 1. You wrote: "DR census statistics indicate that 85- 90% are [black]." I informed you that the current DR census does not classify people thus and asked for your source. Instead of providing one you have simply repeated the falsehood. 2. You wrote (in passive voice) that some Domincans were "considered black." I asked "by whom?" You have ignored the request for a source. 3. You wrote (in passive voice) that some Domincans were "classified as mulatto." I asked "by whom?" You have ignored the request for a source. To avoid suspension, you must answer all three by 2007-07-18 02:00 GMT. The CIA offers those statistics I presume from their own sources. I have also seen similar statistics in many other places. I suggest that you convey your concern to them if you feel that they are inaccurate. Classified means as classified by Dominicans. The source that I can put my hands on is one that you allowed to be posted on your forum and thats is the Miami Herald. Quite clear that Dominicans call some people black, and others mulatto. Interesting reading is an article by Silvio Torres-Saillant a Dominican American in Latin American Perspectives of May 1998. Its titled "The TRIBULATIONS of blackness:stages in Dominican racial identity. Last edited by caribj on Tue 17 Jul 2007 23:11; edited 1 time in total Back to top caribj Suspended Joined: 14 Mar 2007 {Posts: 612 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 23:07    Post subject: G-Man wrote: An example of someone generally seen in the DR as black (because of alleged Haitian roots): José Francisco Peña Gómez Link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jos%C3%A9_Francisco_Pe%C3%B1a_G%C3%B3mez This person was dogged by rumors of being Haitian accusations which were quite blatant in the 1996 election which he lost in a run off., having won the first round. This as reported in, among other places, The Guardian (UK) on Monday 15, 2002. This by none other than the infamous Balaguer with his well known writings about Dominican identity. Back to top caribj Suspended Joined: 14 Mar 2007 {Posts: 612 } Posted: Tue 17 Jul 2007 23:56    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Which means it is not a racial perception. Plus, the claim that all Dominicans straighten their hair is false. Yep those Dominican girls are all hiding their roots I tell ya. SDo these women with braids and natural styles live in the DR or the USA? Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 08:50    Post subject: caribj wrote: Salsassin wrote: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Which means it is not a racial perception. Plus, the claim that all Dominicans straighten their hair is false. Yep those Dominican girls are all hiding their roots I tell ya. SDo these women with braids and natural styles live in the DR or the USA? Most are on the island Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 12:23    Post subject: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Whoa....My memory banks just kicked in....I totally forgot about the Dominican male penchant for wearing jerri curls up to the 90s (long after it had fallen out of favor with African Americans). Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5382 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 13:08    Post subject: caribj wrote: fwsweet wrote: caribj wrote: The 10% comes from the DR census which regards 11% as being black, as defined in the DR. This is in error. Furthermore, since it has been discussed to death on this site (see http://onedroprule.org/viewtopic.php?p=0946#10946, for example), I suspect that it is deliberate falsification. You now have three outstanding moderator requests: 1. You wrote: "DR census statistics indicate that 85- 90% are [black]." I informed you that the current DR census does not classify people thus and asked for your source. Instead of providing one you have simply repeated the falsehood. 2. You wrote (in passive voice) that some Domincans were "considered black." I asked "by whom?" You have ignored the request for a source. 3. You wrote (in passive voice) that some Domincans were "classified as mulatto." I asked "by whom?" You have ignored the request for a source. To avoid suspension, you must answer all three by 2007-07-18 02:00 GMT. The CIA offers those statistics I presume from their own sources. I have also seen similar statistics in many other places. I suggest that you convey your concern to them if you feel that they are inaccurate. Classified means as classified by Dominicans. The source that I can put my hands on is one that you allowed to be posted on your forum and thats is the Miami Herald. Quite clear that Dominicans call some people black, and others mulatto. Caribj's posting privilege is hereby suspended until 19 September 2007. His claim that "DR census statistics indicate that 85- 90% are black or mulatto" is inaccurate. The DR census has no "racial" categories. Consequent to repeated moderator requests for his source for the false assertion, he has attributed it to various sources, none of which, it turns out, contain the claim. We must reluctantly conclude that he simply made the number up and will continue to switch attributions upon each request. Regarding the use of passive voice to imply in context that some Dominican governmental agency classifies a specific number of Dominicans as black or mulatto, Caribj answered the request for a source with, "Classified means as classified by Dominicans." This, of course, is no answer at all. He also said that he read the inaccurate claim in a newspaper editorial. This may well be his only truthful statement. We reluctantly conclude that his sole source of information was a single editorial in a commercial newspaper, but that he has tried to pass this off by falsely claiming more primary sources (census, NGOs, government agencies, etc.). Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 13:24    Post subject: G-Man wrote: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Whoa....My memory banks just kicked in....I totally forgot about the Dominican male penchant for wearing jerri curls up to the 90s (long after it had fallen out of favor with African Americans). Jerri Curls are not straightened hair though. They still indicate African hair. Back to top sagascend Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 } Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 15:23    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: G-Man wrote: G-Man wrote: Salsassin wrote: Also, if straightening hair is about hiding African ancestry, why are Dominican men not applying conk onto their hair ala young Malcolm X or Farrakhan or Sharpton? Staight hair may be more important to women than to men. Possibly many women straighten their hair because they feel it makes them more attractive to men. Men base their own attractiveness on things other than hair. Whoa....My memory banks just kicked in....I totally forgot about the Dominican male penchant for wearing jerri curls up to the 90s (long after it had fallen out of favor with African Americans). Jerri Curls are not straightened hair though. They still indicate African hair. Jheri Curls are actually more damaging than relaxers. First you relax the hair, then you add the chemicals that set the curl. It's still a "good hair" type of situation if your hair is naturally more coiled. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 16:59    Post subject: sagascend wrote: Jheri Curls are actually more damaging than relaxers. First you relax the hair, then you add the chemicals that set the curl. It's still a "good hair" type of situation if your hair is naturally more coiled. Considering Whites predominantly do not use the hair style, it is still an Afrodiasporic hairstyle. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Wed 18 Jul 2007 17:02    Post subject: The Jheri Curls were a Dominican gang which was active in the Washington Heights, Manhattan neighborhood of New York City in the early 1990s. Taking their moniker, and coiffures, from the Jheri curl hairstyle that was of waning popularity in the United States during the time, the gang ran a major cocaine trafficking operation in upper Manhattan which was ultimately based out of an apartment complex on W. 157th St. and Riverside Drive. The gang was led by Rafael Martinez along with his brothers Lorenzo, Julian, Daniel, and Cesar. The Jheri Curls pulled in millions of dollars per year in cocaine sales (allowing the Martinez brothers to live comfortably in Queens), and gang leader Rafael was able to secrete some of the money in properties in the Dominican Republic. Despite their seemingly non-threatening name, the Jheri Curls were known and feared in Washington Heights for their extreme violence--Rafael Martinez reportedly shot his girlfriend in the kneecap when she made fun of his limp--and in particular for the murder of a 67-year-old resident of 614 W. 157th St. (the gang's base of operations) named Jose Reyes. Reyes, who was retired from the city's welfare department, had confronted the gang members about their illicit activities and began aiding the police. Soon after, on May 23, 1991, Reyes was shot to death outside of a bank in broad daylight. Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Latin America All times are GMT Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3 Page 3 of 3 Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group