The Study of Racialism

MP mulattoprince · Wizard Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }

I remember one time also here that somebody said that Jeniffer Beals look blacks to them. I can not recall who it was (I think it was a female poster) -- but mixed mom also mentioned this same statement. Mixed mom said that someone said that Beals looks black to them. Now Beals has what I call quadroon looking phenotype it definitely is no where near black. Quadroon looking meaning she has just a little something about her phenotype that may reveal some admixture but she is predominantly white like Mariah Carey. I wonder sometimes, do females when they make statements like this secretively have a type of jealousy because of the beauty of a Beals, Carey, or Vanessa Williams. I wonder when men make statements (ODR) like this are they secretively having some kind of sexual desires for these beautiful mulattas? What people can't have they want to hurt, destroy, and insult. Beals looks like a white woman with some non white admixture. If Beals said she was latina the person woud not have made the statement.

MP mulattoprince · Wizard Joined: 10 Apr 2007 {Posts: 464 }

@ F Sweet,

F Sweet said: If you are asking whether I think it wrong for others to involuntarily assign 50-50 people to one side or the other, that is harder to answer. I find the practice personally distasteful and tend to avoid people who do it, but as a researcher I find it fascinating. I try to keep my feelings out of my studies so that I do not miss anything.

MP: Thanks for your response Mr. Sweet, I really appreciate it.

Sankofa · Posted: Tue 18 Sep 2007 21:10 Post subject:

MP (mulattoprince)

You've got some issues with the ethnic term "Black", don't you? Substitute it with Afro-descendant or African ancestry, but will that change your opinion?

You have to remember something... not everybody sees the same thing when viewing the same thing... get it?

In other words, just because Beals "looks Black" to someone else does not mean it isn't "true" to that person. Likewise, just because Beals appears predominately "White" to you does not mean it isn't "true" either. Finally, "beauty" is definitely in the eye of the beholder so what you say is "beautiful" may not be the general concensus with others.

Oh yeah... almost forgot... Vanessa Williams is not a "Mulatta" just because she has "light" skin and a "White" phenotype to you. Both of her parents are "Black-identified" and she was raised as a "Black" American in suburban New York. It doesn't matter what you or I think... that is the reality of it all. She was the first "African-American"/"Black" Miss America, not the first "Mulatta-American" Miss America. Remember the site rules? Wink

I've never heard anyone deny that Vanessa Williams has non-"Black" ancestry (not even "Black" people) but one thing I've learned here is you have to respect how someone chooses to identify themselves... even when you may not agree. It is what it is... Neutral

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

sagascend · Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 }

sagascend · Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 }

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 }

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 }

[quote="sagascendEven though "exceptions" are made for Hispanics and Arabs, is there any consistency or cogent logic to it? Not in my experience.

I agree with Jaime that there is some underlying recognition of culture as well as ethnicity (and nationality with immigrants), but it is all jumbled up into "race." The treatment of Hispanics in our official categorization says it all for me.

The racialization of Hispanics is clear to me as I live in the Southwest, where forms and polls outline "White, non Hispanic" and "Black, non Hispanic" categories.

This is also done in New York State

Clearly someone finds it necessary to ensure that Spanish-speaking folks with Latin culture who may have a black or white appearance do not check the wrong box. I suppose someone would also like to ensure that Black or White folks with Latin ancestry don't go checking the wrong box.

Down here it makes sense to many people to call the child of a White Anglo person with significant NA admixture and a Mexican American with virtually no NA ancestry "Hispanic, non White" if they are culturally Mexican American (Spanish speaking). THis person is apparently racially Hispanic no matter his actual ancestry. When someone is really being "racially correct" they will acknowledge this person as half-Hispanic. Now that makes about as much sense to me as the ODR does.

But things still get shaky with Hispanics who have African admixture, as well as Arabs, when their SSA is visible. Some Americans will still override culture/nationality with "race" because that is what they are trained to do. Others will exclude them from "the race" based on their ethnic heritage.

Perhaps the true reason for the "escape hatch," as Powell often refers to it, is that the stigma of "Black blood" in the U.S. comes from being African American rather than merely having SSA ancestry. Hispanics and Arabs with SSA are not the descendants of African slaves brought to the U.S., so they are "excused" from the race.

Well Hispanics also have SSA descendant from African slaves.

I think the thing that makes them excusable at times is their foreigness. Black Americans share the same history with 'white' Americans. And that history of slavery is the issue.
European (whites) of South Africa include Arabs/Muslims in the Coloured population as well as Indians
So if this is true, there is an underlying recognition of culture/ethnicity in America's racial schema. Could most people clearly articulate that? I doubt it. It's becoming clearer and clearer to me the more I write about it.[/quote]

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 }

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

The French King Tut reconstruction shows bias in itself.

Hanzou · Mentor Joined: 05 Nov 2005 {Posts: 261 }

2 examples of "supporting" the ODR;

http://www.bossip.com/5155/keke-wyatt-i-am-not-black/
read the comments page

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1077/is_n9_v52/ai_19565991

MrSolo · Posted: Thu 20 Sep 2007 00:42 Post subject:

Perhaps the ODR is still generally supported by those of non-SSA black ancestry because 1) it’s the U.S. status quo, 2) eradicating it would lead to identity turmoil because there is no widely-accepted and/or appropriate method for classifying mixed-race individuals without having to justify hypodescendency and similar schemes, and 3) pro-black SSA-related blacks in the U.S. would accuse the (white) establishment of attempting to divide and conquer.

In regard to SSA-related blacks in the U.S., it might appear that many of them support the ODR because by visual appearance alone, none of them can identify with or validly claim ancestry other than sub-Saharan black ancestry. Regardless of physical appearance/features, cultural upbringing and the like, they would feel disenfranchised and/or cheated if they were lumped into the ‘black’ category without adequate redress, so to speak. It's almost as if they view SSA ancestry as a punishment.

punjabtrini · Mentor Joined: 04 Sep 2007 {Posts: 253 } Location: USA

it is known that

fwsweet · Posted: Thu 20 Sep 2007 20:41 Post subject:

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

fwsweet · Posted: Thu 20 Sep 2007 20:49 Post subject:

Phil345 · Wizard Joined: 03 Oct 2005 {Posts: 524 }

by "genuinely black" I mean a member of the afro-american ethnic group, or some other group that socially considers themselves "black". While some such people might look "overwhelmingly european" to you and others, saying that they are "really black", would be a statement of truth, and not a manifestation of the ODR.

fwsweet · Posted: Thu 20 Sep 2007 21:27 Post subject:

William · Posted: Thu 20 Sep 2007 23:21 Post subject: