The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' What should I do? Goto page 1, 2  Next          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Racial Identity and The Multiracial Experience Author Message jagirl32 Experienced User Joined: 17 Jul 2007 {Posts: 125 } Posted: Thu 27 Sep 2007 05:14    Post subject: What should I do? Ok i'm an american born to jamaican parents. my mother is black (but mixed) and my father was (rest in peace) chinese, french, indian and jewish. what does that make me? Back to top DucorpsToo Mentor Joined: 19 Jan 2006 {Posts: 223 } Location: Southern California Posted: Thu 27 Sep 2007 13:37    Post subject: You're quite a multiethnic person indeed!..interesting blend. As far as "what that makes you"...(other than a member of the single species, homo sapiens ) you'll have to go with what feels comfortable to you. However you choose to self-identify(or not to self-identify), hopefully, won't be criticized by those of us who are members of this board (Rules 2.5). Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Thu 27 Sep 2007 14:24    Post subject: Re: What should I do? jagirl32 wrote: Ok i'm an american born to jamaican parents. my mother is black (but mixed) and my father was (rest in peace) chinese, french, indian and jewish. what does that make me? Human.....Specifically Jamerican (Jamaican American). Multiethnic (or racial if you prefer), but it's your job to self-identify, even if others wish to take that job from you. Back to top Sankofa Mentor Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A. Posted: Thu 27 Sep 2007 15:41    Post subject: Quote: Ok i'm an american born to jamaican parents. my mother is black (but mixed) and my father was (rest in peace) chinese, french, indian and jewish. what does that make me? An American. Back to top odocoileus Mentor Joined: 05 Apr 2006 {Posts: 300 } Location: Chatsworth, CA Posted: Thu 27 Sep 2007 19:25    Post subject: Usually people who encourage you to identify exclusively as part of one group are trying to manipulate you. They want something from you and they figure they can get it by stirring up the deep emotional ties that many of us have to our ethnic backgrounds. Don't play their game. You seem proud of your Jamaican heritage and you mixed ancestry, so just say that you're Jamaican of mixed heritage. Or don't talk about it at all. Back to top jagirl32 Experienced User Joined: 17 Jul 2007 {Posts: 125 } Posted: Fri 28 Sep 2007 01:21    Post subject: an american huh? Sankofa wrote: Quote: Ok i'm an american born to jamaican parents. my mother is black (but mixed) and my father was (rest in peace) chinese, french, indian and jewish. what does that make me? An American. if i choose to self identify SANKOFA .why should i not say that i' m jamaican as well as american? my parents are jamaican and my culture eventhough i am born in this country is JAMAICAN! I eat the food, hell i cook the food, i grew up listening to (and love) reggae misic as well as know a great deal about the island itself. I think its very unfair as well as ignorant when west indians from the islands to refere to west indians born in america as simply americans because it JUST IS'NT TRUE. Back to top Sankofa Mentor Joined: 04 Oct 2006 {Posts: 228 } Location: CT/U.S.A. Posted: Fri 28 Sep 2007 13:21    Post subject: Let's get something straight here, JAGIRL32. I don't care how you self-identify. It's your choice whatever that may be. You asked an open question addressed to this forum: "what am I?" and I (being a member of this forum) answered your question IMO. You asked for our opinions, remember? I never said you couldn't or shouldn't self identify as you see fit. I just gave you an honest answer because you are an American by way of nationality. I didn't say anything about how you should self identify culturally (or racially/ethnically either). So how you came to be so defensive about an obvious answer, I don't know and quite frankly, I don't care. I bet if you were stopped in a foreign country's airport customs office from bording a flight en route to America, the first thing that would more than likely come out of your mouth would be (and should) something to the effect of: "HEY, I'm an AMERICAN!" My stepfather is Jamaican and I grew up around a lot of Jamaicans and I know for sure that they would not call you a Jamaican because you were born here, in America. I live in Connecticut, which also happens to house the 3rd largest West Indian population per capita outside of the Caribbean, and the American born children of these immigrants do not refer to their children as West Indians (Jamaicans, 'Bajans, Trinis, etc)... they call them Americans. That would be like "Black" Americans calling themselves Africans. That doesn't mean you are an "African-American"/"Black" American nor did I say or imply that. So before you get all worked up, "tek way yu self". If you were born in Jamaica, I would have answered your question with: "You are a Jamaican." Even if you moved here at a young age from Jamaica, you would still be a Jamaican IMO because that's where you were born. There is nothing in my post that was negative (or malicious) towards you or telling you how you should self-identify. You asked a question and you got an answer that you obviously did not like. It is what it is. Back to top Beauty Experienced User Joined: 02 Jun 2007 {Posts: 102 } Posted: Fri 28 Sep 2007 15:28    Post subject: I agree with Sankofa to an extent. Many Jamaicans will not consider you Jamaican because you were born in America and have grown up in an American way of life. However, you were probably raised with Jamaican traditions. Your ethnicity would probably be Jamaican but not your nationality. Back to top DChapman Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY Posted: Fri 28 Sep 2007 17:36    Post subject: I think this thread belongs in the Issues for BiRacial Americans forum since this forum, History of the One Drop Rule, is for technical and scholarly discussions. This discussions is more about self identity and opinion, so I will move it. Back to top jagirl32 Experienced User Joined: 17 Jul 2007 {Posts: 125 } Posted: Sat 29 Sep 2007 05:25    Post subject: Whats interesting is.... Beauty wrote: I agree with Sankofa to an extent. Many Jamaicans will not consider you Jamaican because you were born in America and have grown up in an American way of life. However, you were probably raised with Jamaican traditions. Your ethnicity would probably be Jamaican but not your nationality. Whats interesting is if if i where someone who was rich and famous jamaicans would be going out of their way to claim me as their own. tiger woods and his mothers country are a good example of this Back to top Beauty Experienced User Joined: 02 Jun 2007 {Posts: 102 } Posted: Sat 29 Sep 2007 13:26    Post subject: I doubt that would happen. Back to top bluestocking New User Joined: 20 Jun 2007 {Posts: 36 } Posted: Sun 30 Sep 2007 14:56    Post subject: Mixed race, multi-racial, whatever other term you choose. If I were you and someone asked, I'd probably explain it the way you just explained it if I had the time: My mom was this, my dad was that, and I grew up here. Back to top Creole GAL Wizard Joined: 12 Mar 2007 {Posts: 433 } Posted: Sun 30 Sep 2007 22:20    Post subject: A person. You cannot make anyone call you what you want to be idenitifed as . Some forms only give three choices. Some people will mark for you what they think if they have to list this for you like a police officer. All you can do is be happy in your skin and accept yourself. The outside world is going to say and call you what they want.That is life. Back to top anonymouse Wizard Joined: 09 Oct 2007 {Posts: 677 } Posted: Wed 10 Oct 2007 18:45    Post subject: Re: Whats interesting is.... jagirl32 wrote: Beauty wrote: I agree with Sankofa to an extent. Many Jamaicans will not consider you Jamaican because you were born in America and have grown up in an American way of life. However, you were probably raised with Jamaican traditions. Your ethnicity would probably be Jamaican but not your nationality. Whats interesting is if if i where someone who was rich and famous jamaicans would be going out of their way to claim me as their own. tiger woods and his mothers country are a good example of this Beauty wrote: I doubt that would happen. You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen. @ jagirl32 If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed. For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black. Back to top jagirl32 Experienced User Joined: 17 Jul 2007 {Posts: 125 } Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 06:27    Post subject: very interesting and very racist indeed. why should i say that i am black and black only? regardless of what i look like it will not change the fact that i am mixed. so sad Back to top anonymouse Wizard Joined: 09 Oct 2007 {Posts: 677 } Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 14:25    Post subject: Re: very interesting jagirl32 wrote: and very racist indeed. why should i say that i am black and black only? regardless of what i look like it will not change the fact that i am mixed. so sad 1. You asked for an opinion and you were given just that: an opinion. 2. From this post it appears that you do not understand the definition of racism or have a developed a different definition of the word than most people use. rac·ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[rey-siz-uhm] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation –noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. 2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. from dictionary.com racism Main Entry: rac·ism Listen to the pronunciation of racism Pronunciation: \ˈrā-ˌsi-zəm also -ˌshi-\ Function: noun Date: 1933 1 : a belief that race is the primary determinant of human traits and capacities and that racial differences produce an inherent superiority of a particular race 2 : racial prejudice or discrimination from Merriam-Webster's website 3. You are putting words in my mouth. I never said that "you are black and black only" or that you should identify as such. In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black. Let me show you a couple of examples of friends of mine: This patriotic young American is one of my closest friends and is from Guyana. His paternal great grandfather was from India and his father was 1/2 Amerindian (or "Buck" as they call them). His mother also has a mixed racial heritage but I can't remember what but she is much fairer in complexion. He is referred to as black and also identifies as such. But if you asked him about his racial makeup he will tell you what he is mixed with. One comes from a recent mixed background and one does not. In the West Indies both are black. And if you haven't guessed, these are pictures of my son and myself. and if I hear one "big head boy" comment I will be quite upset Last edited by anonymouse on Tue 08 Jul 2008 16:35; edited 4 times in total Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5376 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 15:28    Post subject: Re: very interesting anonymouse wrote: In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black. Source, please. All of the scholarly literature on the topic that I have says that in the former B.W.I., people of clearly mixed Afro-Euro phenotype are referred to a "coloured," not "black." When you provide your source, please indicate whether the subjects tabulated were residents of the islands (as you claim above) or U.S.-born second- or third-generation descendants of island immigrants who have assimilated into A-A self-identity. Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5376 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 15:49    Post subject: Re: very interesting jagirl32 wrote: and very racist indeed. why should i say that i am black and black only? regardless of what i look like it will not change the fact that i am mixed. so sad anonymouse wrote: racism ... (1) a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others. (2) a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination. (3) hatred or intolerance of another race or other races. You are using different definitions of the same word. Ironically, neither of you is using the site-standard definition of racism published in The Rules: "Belief in someone’s inferiority, or mistreatment, based upon ancestry but independent of appearance or wealth." Jagirl32's definition comes closer to the the site-standard definition of racialism: "A belief in the existence of bio-races (which see) in H. sapiens, despite the fact that no cluster of geographically co-varying traits has ever been found in that species." And anonymouse's definition, copied from a dictionary, actually adopts that very belief, and so the definition itself embodies and reifies racialism. (The website may have used an old dictionary to avoid copyright infringement.) In any event, this particular dispute (whether answering jagirl32's question by saying that she is "black" is "racist" per se) is mere difference in word usage. Hence, per The Rules, paragraph 3.7, "you must end the dispute immediately." Last edited by fwsweet on Fri 29 Feb 2008 15:52; edited 1 time in total Back to top anonymouse Wizard Joined: 09 Oct 2007 {Posts: 677 } Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 15:49    Post subject: Re: very interesting fwsweet wrote: anonymouse wrote: In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black. Source, please. All of the scholarly literature on the topic that I have says that in the former B.W.I., people of clearly mixed Afro-Euro phenotype are referred to a "coloured," not "black." When you provide your source, please indicate whether the subjects tabulated were residents of the islands (as you claim above) or U.S.-born second- or third-generation descendants of island immigrants who have assimilated into A-A self-identity. The Marine became a naturalised US citizen 2 years ago. He was born in Barbados of Guyanese parents and raised in Georgetown, Guyana. He came to the States when he was 24. The young lady is from San Juan, Trinidad and came to the States when she was about 18 years old. The only sources I know of are of personal experiences which are primarily Barbados & Jamaica. To clarify I was born in 1969 (post colonial period) and can only comment on the last 30 years or so. I am well aware that racial identification in the West Indies has changed over the years so studies taken in colonial times may no longer be accurate. Additionally my examples were not Euro-Afro mixes but Afro-Indo and/or Afro-Indo-Indigenous mixes, a phenomenon that is quite common in the Southern Caribbean Last edited by anonymouse on Fri 29 Feb 2008 16:08; edited 1 time in total Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5376 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 16:05    Post subject: Re: very interesting anonymouse wrote: The only sources I know of are of personal experiences. Then I suggest that your personal experiences contradict those of the vast majority of people living in the English-speaking West Indies. The most recent comprehensive study of this topic, Mary C. Waters, Black Identities: West Indian Immigrant Dreams and American Realities (New York: Harvard University, 2001) spends pages 28-31 on this very subject of terminology ("coloured" versus "black"). Its findings are based on hundreds of interviews by the author, which she then matches to dozens of studies by others collected by the author, all of which were conducted after Brit rule ended. According to them, the term "coloured" for the Afro-Euro mixed phenotype is still very much alive in the islands. anonymouse wrote: Additionally my examples were not Euro-Afro mixes but Afro-Indo and/or Afro-Indo-Indigenous mixes... Perhaps so. But your claim (as opposed to your examples) was about Euro-Afro mixes, was it not? Did jagirl32 say that she was Afro-Amerind or dougla? If she did, I must have missed it. Back to top Display posts from previous: All Posts1 Day7 Days2 Weeks1 Month3 Months6 Months1 Year Oldest FirstNewest First         The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Racial Identity and The Multiracial Experience All times are GMT Goto page 1, 2  Next Page 1 of 2 Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group