you all are going on like all Africans are the colour of tar and must have dark brown eyes and black hair. Have you ever come across Ibo from Nigeria?
First off, I'm assuming your new here. So you need to take your time in getting familiar with individuals. We understand that there are many different ethnic groups in Africa. There is no Negroid race.
Now, I'm assuming you understand that black americans(of the slave trade) came predominatelty from the Western Coast of Africa, and a bit Central Africa. So yes there are various features found from the different ethnic African groups but African-Americans aren't related to all of them.
Do you also realize that there is mixing taking places to different degrees in Africa. I wouldn't say that native Africans are mixed to the degree you find in the New World. But I'm strongly believing that that woman in the forefront, who could be East African, could also be mixed.
Are you saying that Spike's wife couldn't pass for one of them?
No I don't think she could pass for a non-mixed African.
Eric Sermon of the EPMD fame has green eyes. Is anyone going to tell me he looks like he is mulatto? Or has recent European ancestors? I'm sorry but I am not seeing a lot of Europe in his features.
What does a Mulatto supposed to look like. Mixed is mixed. You don't know how recent his European ancestry is, why are you questioning it? Because he is dark skinned? Don't you know that there are darker skinned biracial/mulatto people and if one had a child with a dark skinned black person that child can still have mixed features. And that persons will have a very recent Euro/white grandparent probably raising them.
People tend to go on and on about mixing of ethnic groups but doesn't Africa possess the greatest number of ethnic groups? Most American (North/Central & South) American blacks are just that: An amalgamation of different African ethnic groups with a dose of native American and European thrown into the mix. If they are of West Indian decent you might want to add some Chinese, East Indian and "Syrian" (catch all phrase for Arab) for good measure. So your average black person will have some features that are not typically African. That is also the reason that most Africans can tell a non-African black by looks alone. We tend to look exotic to them.
But that does not make us any less black. IMHO of course
You need to click on The Rules at the top of the page under OneDropRule.org
In order for confusion to be less, we have to use terms in similar ways. Black does not = African
Last edited by gemini072 on Thu 11 Oct 2007 14:51; edited 2 times in total
Posted: Thu 11 Oct 2007 13:14 Post subject: les Nubians (French / Cameroonian)
PARIS (CNN) -- Sisters Helene and Celia Faussart were born in the Bordeaux region of France. Their father was French, their mother Cameroonian. They spent part of their childhood in the African country of Chad. And they returned to their French homeland as teenagers.
Now if someone saw these ladies while they were living in Chad you would get 2 response.
1.) See Africans come in all shades and looks
Posted: Thu 11 Oct 2007 13:18 Post subject: Helen Folasade Adu (English / Nigerian)
Sade was born in Ibadan, Ọyọ State, Nigeria. Her parents, Bisi Adu, a Nigerian lecturer in economics of Yoruba background, and Anne Hayes, an English nurse, met in London and moved to west Africa. Later, when the marriage ran into difficulties, Anne returned to Clacton-on-Sea, Essex, England, taking four-year-old Sade and her older brother Banji to live with her parents. Living in Colchester, Essex,
Posted: Thu 11 Oct 2007 22:33 Post subject: Re: ok ok
jagirl32 wrote:
.... she looks, to me like a regular light light skinned black
I agree with jagirl32 and undestand what she means in regard to Spike Lees wife not looking "mixed" but rather like a "regular light skinned black"... with "regular black" meaning a person from a homogenous black american family.
MP mulattoprice wrote:
MP: In my personal opinion I feel one of the reasons many so called light skin blacks are seldom mistaken for other ethnic and racial groups is -- because they for many generations the mulattoes have been living and marrying blacks because of the ODR forcing them to live among blacks. This causes one to pick up more black ancestry in ones genes. The result they are seldom mistaken for other ethnic groups.
I agree with MP (save that nonsense about "mulattos" being FORCED to marry black people), that black americans, have been highly endogamous for a long time, and because of this have developed distinctive looks. Most black americans (regardless of complexion), can be distinguished from other ethnicities, including the new bi/multi-racial people, by persons with a discerning eye for these differences.
Spike lees wife and daughter (to me), look VERY african-american, and I would immediately recognize them as such.
There was a thread a while ago in the molecular anthropology/genetics board discussing this and comparing the looks of "light skinned blacks vs. bi-racial people".
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 00:10 Post subject:
gemini wrote,
Quote:
When I think 100% African I'm thinking not mixed with any other (Euro,NativeAmerican,Asian) group. If someone said on a TShirt [100% Black] I wouldn't have any qualms about it.
My issue with people claiming Spike Lee's wife and daughter as simply "black" is that it ignores their obvious European heritage, and further retards the ability of mulattos to identify as a unique group of American people.
Certainly people have a right to claim whatever identity they wish. My worry is that those claims will impede on my ability to self-identify.
For the record, I never said Spike Lee's wife was "mulatto" nor did I say she had any recent mixing in her family. I really do not know. But, it truly boggles me that you are looking at the same woman as the rest of us and still somehow think that she COULD be 100% African???
In my example from above it took 3 generations for some obvious physical traits to reemerge yet by definition she is not biracial or mestizo but mostly African. You cannot go by looks or features alone. And for the record after Brazil & the US, Colombia has the 3rd largest concentration of blacks in this hemisphere.
But my point is no black person in the Americas (recent immigrants excluded) is 100% African so everyone is going to have features that may harkon back to a distant ancestor from another ethnic or raical (or both) background. Does it make them any less "black"? No. Just adds to the flavour of their "blackness"
Your confusing Black with African. Black is not a biological term, it's a social/political/national thing. It has very little to do with actual biological traits.
When I think 100% African I'm thinking not mixed with any other (Euro,NativeAmerican,Asian) group. If someone said on a TShirt [100% Black] I wouldn't have any qualms about it.
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 01:04 Post subject: Re: ok ok
Phil345 wrote:
jagirl32 wrote:
.... she looks, to me like a regular light light skinned black
I agree with jagirl32 and undestand what she means in regard to Spike Lees wife not looking "mixed" but rather like a "regular light skinned black"... with "regular black" meaning a person from a homogenous black american family.
MP mulattoprice wrote:
MP: In my personal opinion I feel one of the reasons many so called light skin blacks are seldom mistaken for other ethnic and racial groups is -- because they for many generations the mulattoes have been living and marrying blacks because of the ODR forcing them to live among blacks. This causes one to pick up more black ancestry in ones genes. The result they are seldom mistaken for other ethnic groups.
I agree with MP (save that nonsense about "mulattos" being FORCED to marry black people), that black americans, have been highly endogamous for a long time, and because of this have developed distinctive looks. Most black americans (regardless of complexion), can be distinguished from other ethnicities, including the new bi/multi-racial people, by persons with a discerning eye for these differences.
Spike lees wife and daughter (to me), look VERY african-american, and I would immediately recognize them as such.
There was a thread a while ago in the molecular anthropology/genetics board discussing this and comparing the looks of "light skinned blacks vs. bi-racial people".
And, yet, in New Orleans I was often assumed to be "Creole", meaning a "light skinned black" whose family had been "light skinned blacks" for generations. I mean, to the point of it became COMMON for some black or Creole person to swear I had a twin or a stranger on the bus saying aren't you so and so's daugther or having a conversation with someone and it's like didn't you used to sing at my church. Um, no to all three. So, how do you explain me, having a white mother, being mistaken for Creole, when their last white ancestor was back three or more generations ago?
What you described happens to a lot of light skin blacks, I have seen it many times. I have seen light skin blacks in public somewhere, and another black person starts saying you look like my niece, you like you are some kin to me, aren't you related to so and so family they are light skin like you, do you know so and so he or she is light skin, is your or father so and so you like him (light skin like that person), etc etc many light skin blacks go through this are you so kin to so and so or you look like so and so just ask many light skin blacks many of them will have story or two or more. It has a lot to do with them simply being light skin and if they were not light skin many of them I have this happen to would not have been even asked are they related to so and so. The dark skin and caramel skin brothers and sisters of many of these light skin blacks probably don't get asked are they related to this so and so light skin person very much, thus proving that the questioning most of the time is based upon skin tone, and not facial features like the eyes, nose, cheeks, etc it is the skin only mainly. Almost any light skin black can be mistaken for creole in the state Louisiana.
What you described happens to a lot of light skin blacks, I have seen it many times. I have seen light skin blacks in public somewhere, and another black person starts saying you look like my niece, you like you are some kin to me, aren't you related to so and so family they are light skin like you, do you know so and so he or she is light skin, is your or father so and so you like him (light skin like that person), etc etc many light skin blacks go through this are you so kin to so and so or you look like so and so just ask many light skin blacks many of them will have story or two or more. It has a lot to do with them simply being light skin and if they were not light skin many of them I have this happen to would not have been even asked are they related to so and so. The dark skin and caramel skin brothers and sisters of many of these light skin blacks probably don't get asked are they related to this so and so light skin person very much, thus proving that the questioning most of the time is based upon skin tone, and not facial features like the eyes, nose, cheeks, etc it is the skin only mainly. Almost any light skin black can be mistaken for creole in the state Louisiana.
But, I'm not a light skin black. My FATHER was a light skin black and my mother is white. My point, and I THINK it might be your point as well, is that whether you have a black and white parent or you just come from a light skinned black family, there are still similar looks, except you are saying it's just about skin color and I am saying it extends to hair type, facial features, etc. No sane person is gonna swear somebody else is my twin based solely on skin tone. That's just silly.
My point was that there is no distinct difference in the look of a mulatto versus the look of a light skinned black person. Mixed is mixed and tends to look mixed. This is also why mulattos get mistaken for Puerto Ricans and Dominicans get mistaken for light skinned blacks. Mixed is mixed is mixed. I have met mulattos who I mistook for light skinned blacks and I have met light skinned blacks who I mistook for mulattos. Heck, today I was talking with a Puerto Rican co-worker and thought he was a black-white American biracial mulatto.
What you described happens to a lot of light skin blacks, I have seen it many times. I have seen light skin blacks in public somewhere, and another black person starts saying you look like my niece, you like you are some kin to me, aren't you related to so and so family they are light skin like you, do you know so and so he or she is light skin, is your or father so and so you like him (light skin like that person), etc etc many light skin blacks go through this are you so kin to so and so or you look like so and so just ask many light skin blacks many of them will have story or two or more. It has a lot to do with them simply being light skin and if they were not light skin many of them I have this happen to would not have been even asked are they related to so and so. The dark skin and caramel skin brothers and sisters of many of these light skin blacks probably don't get asked are they related to this so and so light skin person very much, thus proving that the questioning most of the time is based upon skin tone, and not facial features like the eyes, nose, cheeks, etc it is the skin only mainly. Almost any light skin black can be mistaken for creole in the state Louisiana.
But, I'm not a light skin black. My FATHER was a light skin black and my mother is white. My point, and I THINK it might be your point as well, is that whether you have a black and white parent or you just come from a light skinned black family, there are still similar looks, except you are saying it's just about skin color and I am saying it extends to hair type, facial features, etc. No sane person is gonna swear somebody else is my twin based solely on skin tone. That's just silly.
My point was that there is no distinct difference in the look of a mulatto versus the look of a light skinned black person. Mixed is mixed and tends to look mixed. This is also why mulattos get mistaken for Puerto Ricans and Dominicans get mistaken for light skinned blacks. Mixed is mixed is mixed. I have met mulattos who I mistook for light skinned blacks and I have met light skinned blacks who I mistook for mulattos. Heck, today I was talking with a Puerto Rican co-worker and thought he was a black-white American biracial mulatto.
Aren't we still talking about people descended from recent "racial" mixing - regardless of what they were taught to call themselves or chose to call themselves? The DNA doesn't know the politics of "racial" nomenclature.
When I think 100% African I'm thinking not mixed with any other (Euro,NativeAmerican,Asian) group. If someone said on a TShirt [100% Black] I wouldn't have any qualms about it.
What would a 100% African look like to you?
I'm not saying there is a specific look, Africa is a continent with a large number of countries with their own ethnic group: Nigerian, Congo,Ghana,Ethiopia etc etc These groups tend to have their own look and of course some groups have various degrees of mixing among each other as well as a small mixing with Europeans.
I could even see a biracial person Sade wear a 100%African t-shirt because it's her birthplace & nationality. African/Africa is not an ethnic group in and of itself.
For an american who has never been to Africa, doesn't know any language hardly any culture and most likely will not know what country(ies) his line comes from, to say they are 100% African just doesn't make sense. A TShirt that honors Africa as a part of them is something different, I had a leather Africa patch I wore in the early 90's too.
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 13:14 Post subject: Re: ok ok
Phil345 wrote:
jagirl32 wrote:
.... she looks, to me like a regular light light skinned black
I agree with jagirl32 and undestand what she means in regard to Spike Lees wife not looking "mixed" but rather like a "regular light skinned black"... with "regular black" meaning a person from a homogenous black american family.
MP mulattoprice wrote:
MP: In my personal opinion I feel one of the reasons many so called light skin blacks are seldom mistaken for other ethnic and racial groups is -- because they for many generations the mulattoes have been living and marrying blacks because of the ODR forcing them to live among blacks. This causes one to pick up more black ancestry in ones genes. The result they are seldom mistaken for other ethnic groups.
I agree with MP (save that nonsense about "mulattos" being FORCED to marry black people), that black americans, have been highly endogamous for a long time, and because of this have developed distinctive looks. Most black americans (regardless of complexion), can be distinguished from other ethnicities, including the new bi/multi-racial people, by persons with a discerning eye for these differences.
Spike lees wife and daughter (to me), look VERY african-american, and I would immediately recognize them as such.
This discussion in no way is trying to remove whatever label Mrs Lee wears:racially or ethnically. How do you look African-American, when it is more a cultural identity that only says (in America) you have African ancestry and I also don't believe it's in denial of (other) admixture, I think the possibility is a given. I have a friend named Krista who is biracial that look just like Spikes wife. Krista identifies as African American.
How can you Identify them as African-American when it is just that an Identity? You can say what a person Identifies as unless you ask them or they tell you. She could easily say "I'm not African-American, I'm Black" Which opens up a whole other issue.
There was a thread a while ago in the molecular anthropology/genetics board discussing this and comparing the looks of "light skinned blacks vs. bi-racial people".
We have an supposed Idea of what a person is supposed to look like if they are biracial. And if a person doesn't have that look then we put them in a catagory of 'light skinned black' or we just assume (because African admixture is noticable) that they are African-American or Black because that group of people have distant & recent admixture.
I never thought that singer Faith Evan was biracial, I was still in the process of breaking that check off list of what someone is by how they look. If the hair doesn't have a specific curl, the lips have to be a certain way. Holly Robinson-Peetes daughter has that (biracial) look, a lot of people thought she had a child with a white man.
Last edited by gemini072 on Fri 12 Oct 2007 13:37; edited 1 time in total
What you described happens to a lot of light skin blacks, I have seen it many times. I have seen light skin blacks in public somewhere, and another black person starts saying you look like my niece, you like you are some kin to me, aren't you related to so and so family they are light skin like you, do you know so and so he or she is light skin, is your or father so and so you like him (light skin like that person), etc etc many light skin blacks go through this are you so kin to so and so or you look like so and so just ask many light skin blacks many of them will have story or two or more. It has a lot to do with them simply being light skin and if they were not light skin many of them I have this happen to would not have been even asked are they related to so and so. The dark skin and caramel skin brothers and sisters of many of these light skin blacks probably don't get asked are they related to this so and so light skin person very much, thus proving that the questioning most of the time is based upon skin tone, and not facial features like the eyes, nose, cheeks, etc it is the skin only mainly. Almost any light skin black can be mistaken for creole in the state Louisiana.
But, I'm not a light skin black. My FATHER was a light skin black and my mother is white. My point, and I THINK it might be your point as well, is that whether you have a black and white parent or you just come from a light skinned black family, there are still similar looks, except you are saying it's just about skin color and I am saying it extends to hair type, facial features, etc. No sane person is gonna swear somebody else is my twin based solely on skin tone. That's just silly.
My point was that there is no distinct difference in the look of a mulatto versus the look of a light skinned black person. Mixed is mixed and tends to look mixed. This is also why mulattos get mistaken for Puerto Ricans and Dominicans get mistaken for light skinned blacks. Mixed is mixed is mixed. I have met mulattos who I mistook for light skinned blacks and I have met light skinned blacks who I mistook for mulattos. Heck, today I was talking with a Puerto Rican co-worker and thought he was a black-white American biracial mulatto.
Aren't we still talking about people descended from recent "racial" mixing - regardless of what they were taught to call themselves or chose to call themselves? The DNA doesn't know the politics of "racial" nomenclature.
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 13:42 Post subject: :o) hello
There were no light skinned blacks on the slave ships comeing to america. So they had to come from some where threw race mixing with the massa. That`s how all us light toned folks got started.
You can say light skinned blacks are the old blood from race mixing.And the new blood is from moer resent mixing.
What you described happens to a lot of light skin blacks, I have seen it many times. I have seen light skin blacks in public somewhere, and another black person starts saying you look like my niece, you like you are some kin to me, aren't you related to so and so family they are light skin like you, do you know so and so he or she is light skin, is your or father so and so you like him (light skin like that person), etc etc many light skin blacks go through this are you so kin to so and so or you look like so and so just ask many light skin blacks many of them will have story or two or more. It has a lot to do with them simply being light skin and if they were not light skin many of them I have this happen to would not have been even asked are they related to so and so. The dark skin and caramel skin brothers and sisters of many of these light skin blacks probably don't get asked are they related to this so and so light skin person very much, thus proving that the questioning most of the time is based upon skin tone, and not facial features like the eyes, nose, cheeks, etc it is the skin only mainly. Almost any light skin black can be mistaken for creole in the state Louisiana.
But, I'm not a light skin black. My FATHER was a light skin black and my mother is white. My point, and I THINK it might be your point as well, is that whether you have a black and white parent or you just come from a light skinned black family, there are still similar looks, except you are saying it's just about skin color and I am saying it extends to hair type, facial features, etc. No sane person is gonna swear somebody else is my twin based solely on skin tone. That's just silly.
My point was that there is no distinct difference in the look of a mulatto versus the look of a light skinned black person. Mixed is mixed and tends to look mixed. This is also why mulattos get mistaken for Puerto Ricans and Dominicans get mistaken for light skinned blacks. Mixed is mixed is mixed. I have met mulattos who I mistook for light skinned blacks and I have met light skinned blacks who I mistook for mulattos. Heck, today I was talking with a Puerto Rican co-worker and thought he was a black-white American biracial mulatto.
Aren't we still talking about people descended from recent "racial" mixing - regardless of what they were taught to call themselves or chose to call themselves? The DNA doesn't know the politics of "racial" nomenclature.
Personally, I was not really addressing the nomenclature. I am addressing the look. More specifically, I am addressing the viewpoint of some members that a person with a black parent and a white parent is visibly distinguishable from a person with African and European mixing from further back. As you said, the DNA doesn't know that this person is a "mulatto" and that one is a "Creole". If your DNA ends up 60/40, African/European, you will look similar to others with that "recipe", regardless of "who's your daddy".
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 14:02 Post subject: Re: :o) hello
mulattocassie wrote:
There were no light skinned blacks on the slave ships comeing to america. So they had to come from some where threw race mixing with the massa. That`s how all us light toned folks got started.
Myth 3. European genetic admixture in African Americans comes from rape. — This myth comes in two versions. Some Whites say that admixture resulted from Black-on-White rape after the Civil War. Most African Americans and White liberals attribute it to White-on-Black rape during slavery. In fact, although rape has happened across the color line in both directions, the current levels of African genetic admixture in White Americans and of European genetic admixture in Black Americans match what one would expect from the number of actual documented intermarriages. Before 1691, intermarriage was routine. Before the Civil War it was nearly as common as today. The intermarriage rate fell drastically during the Jim Crow era but has now recovered beyond its former level. Also, for as long as records have been kept, Black male/White female intermarriages have been more common than White male/Black female intermarriages. In some places and times, such as 19th-century Boston, the difference was extreme. Finally, among Americans with “mismatched” mtDNA and Y markers (matrilineal from one continent and patrilineal from the other), most have patrilineal European markers, but a large minority show the reverse.
Intermarriage was also much higher in the antebellum South than after the Civil War, and such marriage were mostly Afo male/Euro female, especially along the Gulf Coast.
Massachusetts repealed its anti-intermarriage law in 1843 and marriages across the color line became more common, although they never approached the intermarriage rates of the lower South. The rate of Black/White intermarriage exceeded that of Irish/White intermarriage for a time. According to Oscar Handlin, Boston’s Irish out-marriage rate in the 1860s “was lower than that of any other group including the Negroes, 12 percent of whose marriages were with whites.” To put this in context, between 45 and 55 percent of Irish-Americans out-marry today. Yet as recently as 1920, Irish-American exogamy was at less than half that—20 percent. In other words, Irish-Americans in Boston quadrupled this index of acceptance over the very same period that social acceptance of the Black endogamous group in the same city fell to one-fourth of its prior value.
The puzzle is solved by noting that impoverished female Irish servants and housemaids comprised the bulk of the initial wave of Irish famine immigrants. Once employed in America, they sent money home so that their relatives could come over as well. But their lack of acceptance in White society limited their choices of marriage partners. Boston’s Black Yankee elite, in contrast to most Whites, preferentially hired Irish servant girls. According to one contemporary, “Negroes were avoided both as servants in the home or as instructors for the children, for it was felt that more gentility and culture would come from exposure to whites.” Proximity led to affection, then to love, and many of the Irish servant girls wound up marrying the sons of established Black craftsmen and shopkeepers. According to Wirth and Goldhammer, Black male/White female marriages were thirty times more common in mid-nineteenth-century Boston than White male/Black female marriages. [Extensive footnotes to peer-reviewed sources are available at the online essay and in the book]
Joined: 02 Feb 2007 {Posts: 255 } Location: California
Posted: Sat 13 Oct 2007 07:11 Post subject:
gemini072 wrote:
High School Teacher wrote:
gemini wrote,
Quote:
When I think 100% African I'm thinking not mixed with any other (Euro,NativeAmerican,Asian) group. If someone said on a TShirt [100% Black] I wouldn't have any qualms about it.
What would a 100% African look like to you?
I'm not saying there is a specific look, Africa is a continent with a large number of countries with their own ethnic group: Nigerian, Congo,Ghana,Ethiopia etc etc These groups tend to have their own look and of course some groups have various degrees of mixing among each other as well as a small mixing with Europeans.
I could even see a biracial person Sade wear a 100%African t-shirt because it's her birthplace & nationality. African/Africa is not an ethnic group in and of itself.
For an american who has never been to Africa, doesn't know any language hardly any culture and most likely will not know what country(ies) his line comes from, to say they are 100% African just doesn't make sense. A TShirt that honors Africa as a part of them is something different, I had a leather Africa patch I wore in the early 90's too.
I'm not sure you answered my question, but we can move on nevertheless . . .
'
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in
That`s how all us light toned folks got started.
