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MixedMuffin
Probationary
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
{Posts: 5 }
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 Posted: Tue 11 Dec 2007 21:59 Post subject: |
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| No my dad is black I suppose his mums black anyways and even my dad and his brothers are not sure whether their dad was black or mixed race! No i dont think they meant it as a compliment hes lived in Britain since he was young I personally dont know whether he would call himself British or St Lucian tho I suspect it would be British. |
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anonymouse
Wizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
{Posts: 677 }
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| Posted: Tue 11 Dec 2007 23:01 Post subject: |
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| Ahh. Sounds like he went to Britain and didn't "go home" regularly so (in their eyes) he forgot where he came from. Typical West Indian response. |
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punjabtrini
Mentor
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
{Posts: 253 }
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed 12 Dec 2007 16:03 Post subject: |
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| anonymouse wrote: | | Ahh. Sounds like he went to Britain and didn't "go home" regularly so (in their eyes) he forgot where he came from. Typical West Indian response. |
I do not see it like that! Being British does not negate being English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Jamaican or Belizean origin of the individual. It is never one or the other. It is not unlike the southern Caribbean where people hold many indentities liek being West Indian, British and Asian or African! |
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anonymouse
Wizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
{Posts: 677 }
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| Posted: Wed 12 Dec 2007 17:24 Post subject: |
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| punjabtrini wrote: | | anonymouse wrote: | | Ahh. Sounds like he went to Britain and didn't "go home" regularly so (in their eyes) he forgot where he came from. Typical West Indian response. |
I do not see it like that! Being British does not negate being English, Welsh, Scottish, Irish, Jamaican or Belizean origin of the individual. It is never one or the other. It is not unlike the southern Caribbean where people hold many indentities liek being West Indian, British and Asian or African! |
Actually to many folks it does. If they refer to you as British you are by extension not West Indian: not one of them. Same as if they refer to you as Yankee. As a kid, being called 'yankeeboy' ranks as one of the worst insults ever, something that you cannot respond to. All you can do is hang your head and wait for the laughter to die down.
*massages old emotional scars*
lol |
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punjabtrini
Mentor
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
{Posts: 253 }
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed 12 Dec 2007 19:43 Post subject: |
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I realize how sensitive some "Americans" (people born in USA regardless of ethnicity) can be (to preface my statement) while saying that West Indians born in USA tend to use a North AMerican attitude with framing their behaviour!
A person from the USA is American, while someone who is part of the British commonwealth is British! The analogy is the same meaning their other affiliation is still present. A person can still be English, Welsh, Scottish, Jamaican, African, Chinese and British (usually referring to citizenship and nationalty as opposed race and ethnicity)! |
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anonymouse
Wizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
{Posts: 677 }
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| Posted: Wed 12 Dec 2007 21:11 Post subject: |
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| punjabtrini wrote: | I realize how sensitive some "Americans" (people born in USA regardless of ethnicity) can be (to preface my statement) while saying that West Indians born in USA tend to use a North AMerican attitude with framing their behaviour!
A person from the USA is American, while someone who is part of the British commonwealth is British! The analogy is the same meaning their other affiliation is still present. A person can still be English, Welsh, Scottish, Jamaican, African, Chinese and British (usually referring to citizenship and nationalty as opposed race and ethnicity)! |
Of course they can and I am not debating that. But West Indians love to generalise so English/Irish/Scottish/Welsh are generally "British" or just "English" same way asians (Japanese, Chinese, Korean, etc) are all "Chiney" or all Arabs are all "Syrians". Not saying it is right but it is what it is. |
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jagirl32
Experienced User
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
{Posts: 125 }
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| Posted: Thu 13 Dec 2007 10:02 Post subject: yes! |
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yes beyby i me dis!
| anonymouse wrote: | | punjabtrini wrote: | There are far too many definititions of West Indians!
The main definition is those born in the islands of the Caribbeans but when we come in contact with an Anglo-Saxon social construct, the definition undergoes many permutations.
a. It appears that in the Anglo-Saxon media, West Indians refer to those of the English speaking islands.
b. Personally as a Trini, French and English speaking see ourselves as West Indians!
c. Spanish speaking Cuba and Dominican see themselves as separate from Puerto Rico but still do not use the West Indian epitaph but within the term antillano, it may be apropos.
c. The Chinese and Asian Indian West Indians depending on social class MAY use the term West Indian as self identiifcation if they possess enough African ethnicity but many identify with the larger Chinese or Asian Indian communities or even straddle both communities.
d. The ones born in USA tend not to use the term West Indian because their immediate social sphere is AMerican except in places in Brooklyn or Florida, where there is a greater West Indian community so there is a fresh link to their parents origin.
e. Belafonte, Poitier, and others, when they were younger tended to espouse West Indians roots but as they became more socialized and more well known they tended to, with societal acceptance, become more American, as it were.
With few exception such as the former Gen. Powell and Holder, they have become more American while still retaining their roots. SHirley CHisholm, Arnold Rampersad, and others are seen as American! |
also forget about Stokely Carmichael aka Kwame Ture
Speaking as a first generation american born and raised in NYC, I concur. I have always seen myself as West Indian and even moreso after leaving New York and moving to DC where there are less people like me. When people hear me talking with accented english about drinking tea & crackers (Royal Lunch) or eating tennis when I got home from school, having ovaltine, milo or horlicks or get rub down with bay rum when sick they always ask where I am from.
"Queens" is my reply |
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jagirl32
Experienced User
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
{Posts: 125 }
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| Posted: Thu 13 Dec 2007 12:54 Post subject: honey you are so right! |
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Are you kidding? tyson beckford is a freaken celeberty in jamaica and he was born in queens!
| G-Man wrote: | This can be said of any ethnic group. I grew up in a heavily Italian-American neighborhood. Many of these "Italians" were second, third or fourth generation Americans and would have been seen as simply American by most people in Italy, despite the fact that they saw themselves as Italians.
In my experience, many West Indians chuckle when Caribbean-Americans call themselves West Indian; they too may see their American-born relations as simply American. But once you become famous, they are quick to claim American-born and bred people as totally West Indian. |
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G-Man
Moderator
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2992 }
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| Posted: Thu 13 Dec 2007 13:39 Post subject: Re: honey you are so right! |
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| jagirl32 wrote: | Are you kidding? tyson beckford is a freaken celeberty in jamaica and he was born in queens!
| G-Man wrote: | This can be said of any ethnic group. I grew up in a heavily Italian-American neighborhood. Many of these "Italians" were second, third or fourth generation Americans and would have been seen as simply American by most people in Italy, despite the fact that they saw themselves as Italians.
In my experience, many West Indians chuckle when Caribbean-Americans call themselves West Indian; they too may see their American-born relations as simply American. But once you become famous, they are quick to claim American-born and bred people as totally West Indian. |
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That's because he's famous, just like Colin Powell and Harry Belafonte (who is only half Jamaican; his father was from Martinique). |
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caribj
Suspended
Joined: 14 Mar 2007
{Posts: 612 }
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| Posted: Thu 13 Dec 2007 19:58 Post subject: |
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| punjabtrini wrote: | I think that was how it was in the old days. Many West Indians who left to go to England were 'British' citizens and that was their identity.
Delroy Lindo (Jamaican, born in UK) as 'American' an actor he is, still considers himself British by birth, social milieu and education so I am using this is as a type of fluid identity as opposed to a static one, that is present is US.
The guy who played the Muslim in Oz, a Trini, also sees himself as British because that was where he grew up, hence his identity. I am using British as nationality or citizenship in that these West Indians are not English, Welsh, Irish or Scottish, which pertains to ethnicity. They are all British as place and location and birth! |
It depends on your cultural orientation. If you left the Caribbean as a kid and therefore are culturally non Caribbean they will not see you as one, calling you American, British, etc. If you left as an adult and are still fundamentally Caribbean you will be considered Caribbean though will carry a derogatory tag as in "salt water Yankee" in Trinidad or "Been Away" in Guyana. Whether we admit it or not we change and so do they over time so they remind us of this by calling us names. |
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gs56ca
Experienced User
Joined: 26 Jan 2008
{Posts: 110 }
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| Posted: Sun 27 Jan 2008 18:13 Post subject: I'm Canadian |
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I would probably say I'm more Canadian than Guyanese, if we are relating to the social sense. I lived with Canadian culture longer, as well as with Guyanese culture in a way. If we are talking technically, I'm Guyanese. So, it's all cool. Overall, I guess I'm Canadian and Guyanese lol.
Funny, I had the same experiences as an earlier poster. I never realized what was the big deal about race until my early teens. People would call me the N-word, and I wouldn't care because people on television would say it. Then when I researched the n-word, I became more critical of others. I realized I was the odd fellow in the school, because I was 'black' and I was intelligent and different. This bothered people, and hence, I was made fun of. To think that grown ass adults, are thinking like children , like 'what 'color' crayon do I think is the best'. I'm very bothered by the color issue. Why the hell should it matter? Any reasonable person would not think like that. I need to put this somewherelese I know lol |
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anonymouse
Wizard
Joined: 09 Oct 2007
{Posts: 677 }
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| Posted: Fri 30 May 2008 17:25 Post subject: |
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| punjabtrini wrote: | | Perhaps some of us have a 'limin' gene (if your are a Trini) or a cricket gene! |
sidenote: Last weekend out of the blue my son asked me to teach him how to play cricket. Brought a smile to my face |
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Richard Miller
Wizard
Joined: 26 May 2007
{Posts: 425 }
Location: San Antonio, Texas
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| Posted: Sat 31 May 2008 21:22 Post subject: Re: WHY DO WEST INDIANS DO THIS? |
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| jagirl32 wrote: | | when they say things like this it makes me angrey because i for one am very proud of my heritage and plan to pass on everything i know of it to my children if i have any. in addition to this if i where a west indian american who wanted nothing to do with the west indies at all (and i know plenty who don't) the west indians from the islands would be the first to harrass you and want to kick your behind(and i've seen it happen believe me) because to them, your saying that being of west indian heritage is something to be ashamed of. i just don't get it! |
It seems that people in general are very cynical. At one point, people will say that you're not good enough to be one of them, but then to those same people, you become one of them quick if they get the impression that you think you're too good to be one of them.
ODR appears to work the same way. To some African Americans, Bryant Gumbel is not black (though that's how he identifies). It would be very amazing to see how black he becomes to those very same people were he stop identifying as black.
(As a mulatto, I'd welcome him with open arms!)
Didn't mean to hijack the thread (We now return you to the regularly sheduled discussion on West Indian identity!) |
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divana
Experienced User
Joined: 10 Aug 2006
{Posts: 119 }
Location: Somewhere...
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| Posted: Thu 05 Jun 2008 03:51 Post subject: Re: WHY DO WEST INDIANS DO THIS? |
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| Plenty West Indians are this way and plenty are not. Those that have that mentality have some strange idea or want to believe that once people are born in the U.S., then everything WI disappears. Yet none of them stop to think that if culture disappears in that manner, then the West Indies would not be the cultural mix it is today. It's because people maintained their cultures through generations and contributed them to general society that the culture of the WI is so rich. So I don't business with those carry on with that because then when they ready, they love to celebrate Indian, African, Syrian, Chinese aspects of them as West Indians. Same way we celebrate and maintain our West Indian heritage and culture in the U.S., as Americans. |
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