The Study of Racialism

sagascend · Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 }

Discussions on how attractive men find women of African descent are sprinkled throughout the ODR forum. Many times, if a given beautiful woman is described as "Black" or "African" posters will point to evidence (to them) of European/Asian/Native American admixture, almost as if to say "yeah she's beautiful but that's because she is mixed."

Has the Eurocentric standard of beauty truly warped our ability to appreciate African beauty? Obviously many men do find dark skin, coiled or kinky hair and African features attractive or no women with these attributes would ever reproduce. It is also clear that many women of African descent are starting to embrace their unique beauty and learn how to appreciate their hair, skin and features as they are. Why has this been so difficult and what actions are making this adoption difficult? Side note: In a conversation with a friend who is a chemist I learned that chemical relaxers are some of the most profitable beauty products on the market. They are dirt cheap to make and produce and create highly dependent and life-long customers. Makes you wonder, as with many popular products, at what point the cart is pulling the horse.

I've posted some pictures of Africa-descended women I think are beautiful. I have intentionally chosen women whose non-African admixture, if present, wouldn't be apparent to most Americans.

To paraphase a friend of mine: Only a racist would kick these women out of bed!

fwsweet

MisterLawyer · Posted: Thu 14 Sep 2006 13:51 Post subject:

I don't think eurocentric standards have warped men's sense of beauty. Everyone has their preferences. I also think many of your pictures represent a current standard of "beauty" that doesn't have anything to do with Eurocentricity--being way too thin. For example.....

.....way too skinny.

Also represented is another not necissarily eurocentric standard, the large fake breast look, which a suprising number of men don't find beautiful.

A little too high and tight. They look like they might pop. She was probably perfect before Sad

Now, if you asked me....

.....thats a beautiful woman.

sagascend · Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 }

I definitely agree that preferences are ultimately personal and probably subconscious/predetermined to some extent. But, just like millions coffee drinkers go to Starbucks (they are EVERYWHERE), at what point does proliferation and marketing influence individual choices and preferences? Does Starbucks serve better coffee drinks that Caribou or Seattle's Best or have people just learned to associate good coffee with Starbucks? IMO it is the same with beauty - pretty much the entire world has learned or is learning to judge female beauty according to Eurocentric standards. Thus, fairskinned/white European-looking women are the Starbucks of female beauty. Much maligned in some circles but still raking in the customers. Laughing

As for the women I selected, I believe that all except two are models so of course their bodies are going to be thinner. To me, if thin is the standard, they are as attractive as any similarly shaped women who are not of African descent that we see glorified in popular media. I also looked mostly at their faces (hey I'm a girl afterall) and skin tone. And I agree that Serena is a gorgeous girl - the second picture I posted is of her (at least I thought it was).

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

Some of the girls you posted could be mixed. But I have dated African women who were stunning and are also exemplified by some of the pictures posted.

Shoot Lusungu, a Zulu princess from Zimbabwe I dated was foine.

Truffling · New User Joined: 12 Jul 2006 {Posts: 13 }

Some of those women in the pictures you posted are very very pretty. In general, I do think that 'real' african women can be under represented in the press and even on a 'social' street level. They are seen as too 'primitive' (if that is the right word) to be beautiful and a black woman must be mixed if she seen as attractive. Also; a dark skinned african featured black men will find it easier to be viewed as attractive than his female counterpart ever could. I have met so many naturally beautiful african women who have taken many a man's (and woman's) breath away so I personally do not understand this viewpoint.

Also, those who do 'represent' black people in the media spotlight on a wider level (such as hollywood movies) are often of african-american origin so, with many exceptions obviously, tend to have a look which doesn't adhere to being 'straight out of africa'. It is often obvious when you look at the media that lighter skinned or those with less strong african features are preffered a lot more than their darker skin very african looking counterparts. I, for a long time, thought that most african-american people were recently mixed till I actually went out there myself! However, I do not necessarily believe that the preference for light skin in the media is the fault of 'white brainwashing' but rather a problem within the black community. This is because what I see myself on a social level. Being called 'lucky' or more sought out by men because of my skin tone or features (especially when I compare it to how my darker female friends or how my darker brothers are treated). I often feel a sense of guilt because it can be so obvious sometimes. Don't get me wrong, I like being flattered! I just hate the reason why I am viewed as attractive by some people some of the time.

In the UK where I live darker black people are often highly represented just as much as their counterparts on television (more so sometimes!). The trend is to show more mixed raced (caribbean and white) people too as that is becoming a trend now over here. But still, the representation of african beauty is still shied away from and barely touched. When it is shown it is treated as some sort of fetish or 'amazing rarity', like a beautiful black african is so odd and unheard of Rolling Eyes

.

In the words of Iman (or something like it anyway!): "Why can't a black woman be chosen for her beauty and not to make some controversial point?".

triguy · Superuser Joined: 27 Apr 2005 {Posts: 878 }

This isn't just a question for black women. Many people of color in the U.S. find themselves questioning their beauty because they don't have "classical" or all-American looks. Noses that are too wide or too hooked-shaped, eyes that have a mono-lid, etc. make people question their beauty. Similarly, the rate of body dysmorphic illnesses has increased over the years. Women and now men question their bodies because they don't look as thin, muscular or sexy as others.

P.S.
In Vietnam and Korea, mixed-race children of American soldiers were treated poorly and told that their features made them ugly.

NYWM · Probationary Joined: 04 Nov 2006 {Posts: 5 }

G-Man · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 }

Mmmm. Tyra Banks. Laughing

..I would agree with you. Personally, I find she looks better today with more body weight than she did in the past when she was actively modeling and thinner.

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

Tyra definitely does not look like traditional African beauty

Salsassin · SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 }

And they are still going by eurocentric modeling body types.

sagascend · Moderator-at-Large Joined: 17 Jun 2006 {Posts: 2418 }

Personally I don't have a problem with that. Every industry creates its standards for behavior/dress, etc. Runway models, according to the current standard, are supposed to be tall and thin like clothes hangers. Commercial models are supposed to be beautiful, girl/guy-next door types. What I have a problem with is the presumption that models who look more African are excluded because they're not as good looking. One rarely sees Asian models in U.S. print media but no one sees it as indication that Asian women are not as beautiful as European women.

bronxnik · New User Joined: 24 Dec 2007 {Posts: 19 }

>>> .....way too skinny

you reject her?

i'll close my eyes and force myself to do her. Hey, it's just to help her self-esteem!

i'm sure every female on the board realizes how sincere i am to help this young woman.

bronxnik · New User Joined: 24 Dec 2007 {Posts: 19 }

>> And they are still going by eurocentric modeling body types.

i've traveled a bit in Africa. More than you perhaps. Certainly, I've chased skirts alongside African guys more than you have.

My guess is that the african guys wouldn't throw this item out of bed for being "too euro".

Monica · Mentor Joined: 02 Oct 2007 {Posts: 345 }

Monica · Mentor Joined: 02 Oct 2007 {Posts: 345 }

punjabtrini · Mentor Joined: 04 Sep 2007 {Posts: 253 } Location: USA

For me, none of the women fit my own personal aesthetic of African beauty! They are beautiful in their own right, the tennis player appears tougher then me (I am a weakling, of course) and the other women though appealing lack a quality I often associate with African women (from Africa).
The women are obviously African but they represent one aspect of African beauty! That specific type, I am guessing is West African as opposed to East African or Central /Southern Africa.

SweetCocoa · New User Joined: 17 Jan 2008 {Posts: 19 }

There actually is a universal standard of beauty. It It involves the markers for reproductive fitness. These are symmetry, youth (blemish free skin, large eyes, full lips, small chin, straight, white teeth) and a small hip to waist ratio (a.k.a the hourglass shape). This has been scientifically proven. Any woman in any culture that fits these basic criteria will be seen as attractive.

The other beauty standard, which comes into play where black women are concerned, is cultural. Our cultural standard is influenced by a Eurocentric aesthetic that values light skin, eyes, long silky hair and thinness. This is a cultural standard that most black and biracial women cannot hope to approach at all, but some come mighty close. Those that do are considered beautiful. For instance, Halle and Beyonce. The rest of us try to even this unfair playing field by straightening our hair, wearing weaves, buying colored contact lenses or using skin lighteners.

Yes, the women pictured are lovely and I know most red-blooded men of any color would not kick them out of bed for eating crackers. But others would stop at their skin color or the fact that they don’t have long hair and say these women are ugly or not for them even though as far as I can tell they clearly meet the universal standard. (I bet they would tumble into bed with these girls but not consider a relationship). I am an attractive dark skinned woman and I have had men tell me that I am pretty, but too dark, so they weren’t going there. Hmn. Good riddance to bad brainwashed, self-hating rubbish, I say.

SweetCocoa · New User Joined: 17 Jan 2008 {Posts: 19 }

Blackman 2 · Regular User Joined: 27 Jan 2008 {Posts: 69 }

People must realize that not all "black" Africans look alike and don't fit the stereotypes that most people are fooled into believing.Many people think a "true black" must have coal black skin and look like Idi Amin or Mutumbo or they're mixed w/ something.