I believe it is part of the Islamic religion that Muslim women are forbidden to marry non-Muslim men (unless the men convert). Muslim men have greater freedom to marry outside of the religion.
The Indian Partner in an Afro/ Indian Relationship in Trinidad usually comes from a Hindu or Christian background. A Muslim partner while not rare, is less common.
I thought they would more likely come from a Muslim or Christian background as opposed to a Hindu background. The religions are more similar to each other than Hinduism is to either of them.
I believe it is part of the Islamic religion that Muslim women are forbidden to marry non-Muslim men (unless the men convert). Muslim men have greater freedom to marry outside of the religion.
The Indian Partner in an Afro/ Indian Relationship in Trinidad usually comes from a Hindu or Christian background. A Muslim partner while not rare, is less common.
I thought they would more likely come from a Muslim or Christian background as opposed to a Hindu background. The religions are more similar to each other than Hinduism is to either of them.
Hey G-man, even though Christianity has grown considerably amongst the East-Indian Population in Trinidad, Hinduism still has the largest following within the Indo-Trinidadian Community, so most contacts and eventual relationships would be Afro/Mixed-Afro -Indo (Hindu).
Christian and Muslim followers of East-Indian descent would be a Minority within the Indo-Trinidadian group,
In my opinion the Indo Muslim Community tend to be quite strict and maintain a tighter group, not that Hindu's are lax but they are much more flexible.
Speaking of which, I'm glad to stumble upon this thread because for the past several months I've been having discussions with a couple of relatives trying to discern how my grandmother must have viewed herself. (She died when I was only 2. )
Here is her pic. To those of you familiar with West Indian culture, what would she have been considered in Jamaica, Barbados, and in the West Indies (Caribbean! ), in general? Thanks!
It really would depend upon the year/time period she was born/lived in and who/what ethnicities her parents were.
Speaking of which, I'm glad to stumble upon this thread because for the past several months I've been having discussions with a couple of relatives trying to discern how my grandmother must have viewed herself. (She died when I was only 2. )
Here is her pic. To those of you familiar with West Indian culture, what would she have been considered in Jamaica, Barbados, and in the West Indies (Caribbean! ), in general? Thanks!
It really would depend upon the year/time period she was born/lived in and who/what ethnicities her parents were.
Hmmm, OK.
Well, she was born in the U.S. New York City, I believe. Let's see, she must have been born around 1924. But how could anyone know what her parents were by looking at her? I mean, my point was how would West Indians, then and now, too, I guess, have seen her? Black? Mixed? "Spanish"? Some word I maybe haven't heard of yet?
At any rate, her mother was Jamaican and I'm afraid I don't know anything beyond that, but her dad was 1/2 Jamaican and 1/2 Bajan and we know that there was some Scottish, Lebanese, Portuguese, and maybe some other stuff mixed in by way of Barbados.
Speaking of which, I'm glad to stumble upon this thread because for the past several months I've been having discussions with a couple of relatives trying to discern how my grandmother must have viewed herself. (She died when I was only 2. )
Here is her pic. To those of you familiar with West Indian culture, what would she have been considered in Jamaica, Barbados, and in the West Indies (Caribbean! ), in general? Thanks!
It really would depend upon the year/time period she was born/lived in and who/what ethnicities her parents were.
Hmmm, OK.
Well, she was born in the U.S. New York City, I believe. Let's see, she must have been born around 1924. But how could anyone know what her parents were by looking at her? I mean, my point was how would West Indians, then and now, too, I guess, have seen her? Black? Mixed? "Spanish"? Some word I maybe haven't heard of yet?
At any rate, her mother was Jamaican and I'm afraid I don't know anything beyond that, but her dad was 1/2 Jamaican and 1/2 Bajan and we know that there was some Scottish, Lebanese, Portuguese, and maybe some other stuff mixed in by way of Barbados.
It is pretty hard to tell from a black and white picture because one can only hazard a guess on skin tones. In today's society in Barbados she would probably be called black (albeit from an obviously mixed background). Same in Jamaica but she would sometimes be referred to as a brownin, one of their catch-all phrases for a light skinned black person.
I really couldn't tell you what they would call her back but I can say with almost certainty that it would not be negro.
Speaking of which, I'm glad to stumble upon this thread because for the past several months I've been having discussions with a couple of relatives trying to discern how my grandmother must have viewed herself. (She died when I was only 2. )
Here is her pic. To those of you familiar with West Indian culture, what would she have been considered in Jamaica, Barbados, and in the West Indies (Caribbean! ), in general? Thanks!
It really would depend upon the year/time period she was born/lived in and who/what ethnicities her parents were.
Hmmm, OK.
Well, she was born in the U.S. New York City, I believe. Let's see, she must have been born around 1924. But how could anyone know what her parents were by looking at her? I mean, my point was how would West Indians, then and now, too, I guess, have seen her? Black? Mixed? "Spanish"? Some word I maybe haven't heard of yet?
At any rate, her mother was Jamaican and I'm afraid I don't know anything beyond that, but her dad was 1/2 Jamaican and 1/2 Bajan and we know that there was some Scottish, Lebanese, Portuguese, and maybe some other stuff mixed in by way of Barbados.
It is pretty hard to tell from a black and white picture because one can only hazard a guess on skin tones. In today's society in Barbados she would probably be called black (albeit from an obviously mixed background). Same in Jamaica but she would sometimes be referred to as a brownin, one of their catch-all phrases for a light skinned black person.
I really couldn't tell you what they would call her back but I can say with almost certainty that it would not be negro.
Cool. Thanks.
She died when I was two, so I don't remember her skin tone and most family photos of her are in black and white. However, I am told her coloring was similar to mine. Would I be called "brownin", too? I like that word. I never heard of it before, but something about it tickles me. Brownin. Like, I'm so pale that in the summer I go to the beach to get some color? You know, sitting in the sun "brownin".
Speaking of which, I'm glad to stumble upon this thread because for the past several months I've been having discussions with a couple of relatives trying to discern how my grandmother must have viewed herself. (She died when I was only 2. )
Here is her pic. To those of you familiar with West Indian culture, what would she have been considered in Jamaica, Barbados, and in the West Indies (Caribbean! ), in general? Thanks!
It really would depend upon the year/time period she was born/lived in and who/what ethnicities her parents were.
Hmmm, OK.
Well, she was born in the U.S. New York City, I believe. Let's see, she must have been born around 1924. But how could anyone know what her parents were by looking at her? I mean, my point was how would West Indians, then and now, too, I guess, have seen her? Black? Mixed? "Spanish"? Some word I maybe haven't heard of yet?
At any rate, her mother was Jamaican and I'm afraid I don't know anything beyond that, but her dad was 1/2 Jamaican and 1/2 Bajan and we know that there was some Scottish, Lebanese, Portuguese, and maybe some other stuff mixed in by way of Barbados.
It is pretty hard to tell from a black and white picture because one can only hazard a guess on skin tones. In today's society in Barbados she would probably be called black (albeit from an obviously mixed background). Same in Jamaica but she would sometimes be referred to as a brownin, one of their catch-all phrases for a light skinned black person.
I really couldn't tell you what they would call her back but I can say with almost certainty that it would not be negro.
Cool. Thanks.
She died when I was two, so I don't remember her skin tone and most family photos of her are in black and white. However, I am told her coloring was similar to mine. Would I be called "brownin", too? I like that word. I never heard of it before, but something about it tickles me. Brownin. Like, I'm so pale that in the summer I go to the beach to get some color? You know, sitting in the sun "brownin".
kinda except I have heard brownin used on people from your complextion to people of say Jada Pincket's compexion. There was a dancehall song that was popular back during the early ninties by Nardo Ranks that talked about how some darker skinned women bleached their skin to get lighter (but not white). He chastized them for using Ambi and other skin lightening products
"dem a bleach
dem a bleach out dem skin
dem a bleach
fi look like a brownin"
Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 06:42 Post subject: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
became a memeber.
You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen.
@ jagirl32
If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed.
For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black.
an interesting as well as racist post.
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
anonymouse wrote:
I could point out many interesting things with this article but if you are not well versed in West Indian society in general you would probably not understand them all. I will say this: despite the wife's personal identification, judging by the picture above no one would refer to her as "spanish" in Trinidad. Nor Indian. Nor dougla. And definitely not white.
A Trini might say she head bazodee and she schupidee while not so subtly pointing out her obvious self hatred at being black.
Posted: Fri 29 Feb 2008 15:02 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
jagirl32 wrote:
became a memeber.
You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen.
@ jagirl32
If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed.
For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black.
an interesting as well as racist post.
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
Have I deprived you of civil liberties based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I denigrated you based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I made claims about the limits of your intellect based upon your race or ethnicity? If you cannot answer yes to any of those questions praytell how am I a racist? And how/where have I made a racist post?
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background. But unless you look like Tami Chynn and have an ambiguous phenotype, very few people in the Anglophone West Indies would refer to you as mixed.
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that you believe being called black is a bad thing.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 02:26 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
anonymouse wrote:
jagirl32 wrote:
became a memeber.
You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen.
@ jagirl32
If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed.
For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black.
an interesting as well as racist post.
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
Have I deprived you of civil liberties based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I denigrated you based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I made claims about the limits of your intellect based upon your race or ethnicity? If you cannot answer yes to any of those questions praytell how am I a racist? And how/where have I made a racist post?
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background. But unless you look like Tami Chynn and have an ambiguous phenotype, very few people in the Anglophone West Indies would refer to you as mixed.
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that you believe being called black is a bad thing.
One dropping is concidered racist (especially on this site) or hav'nt you heard? also, if i was ashamed of being half black i would have lied and said my mother was of another race.
and finally this nonsense about people having an abiguous look like tammy chynn are the only ones that are concidered mixed by people in the west indies? i think this is true only for people who think like you, and for the people of trinidad because i have never heard of this racist philosophy exsisting in jamaica nor have i experienced it there.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 18:02 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
anonymouse wrote:
jagirl32 wrote:
became a memeber.
You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen.
@ jagirl32
If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed.
For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black.
an interesting as well as racist post.
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
Have I deprived you of civil liberties based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I denigrated you based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I made claims about the limits of your intellect based upon your race or ethnicity? If you cannot answer yes to any of those questions praytell how am I a racist? And how/where have I made a racist post?
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background. But unless you look like Tami Chynn and have an ambiguous phenotype, very few people in the Anglophone West Indies would refer to you as mixed.
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that you believe being called black is a bad thing.
Hi Anon, I just want to clarify something with you. Can you please explain what do you mean by most West Indians are mixed regardless of their appearance?
Anon, I agree with your statemenT to Jamerican that being black does not change or negates someone with a mixed background. However, I disagree only those with an ambigous phenotype are recognised as mixed. I am wondering where you have got this perspective from? Correct me if I am wrong but you are Bajan? Is this where you got your perspective from. If so I am suprised because my experiences of Bajan people contradict what you say. I am from a Jamaican background and mixed people are definately acknowledge. My experiences of other West Indians mirror this.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 18:20 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
Beauty wrote:
Anon, I agree with your statemenT to Jamerican that being black does not change or negates someone with a mixed background. However, I disagree only those with an ambigous phenotype are recognised as mixed. I am wondering where you have got this perspective from? Correct me if I am wrong but you are Bajan? Is this where you got your perspective from. If so I am suprised because my experiences of Bajan people contradict what you say. I am from a Jamaican background and mixed people are definately acknowledge. My experiences of other West Indians mirror this.
I have become increasingly convinced that anonymouse has some sort of idealogical axe to grind regarding phenotype terminology in the former BWI. See this thread for an example. Anonymouse makes an outrageously implausible claim about the terms West Indians use. When asked to provide a source, he then says his source is "personal experience." When shown that the overwhelming academic consensus of people who have studied the topic throughout the Anglophone Caribbean flatly contradicts his claims, he changes the subject. I suggest that Anonymouse conclude the dispute begun in this thread before continuing to make the same outrageously implausible unsourced claim that: "In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black." Alternate expressions of the same thesis are: that the present-day inhabitants of the former BWI do not recognize in-between phenotypes, or that they refer to anyone with even the slightest African ancestry as "Black," or that they have not used the term "coloured" since Brit rule.
Anonymouse has been asked by the administrator either to defend this thesis with a credible source or retract it. He has 24 hours. If he simply re-states it again, or tries to change the subject again, or claims personal experience again, his posting privilege will be suspended on the spot.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 18:52 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
anonymouse wrote:
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background.
In another thread in another forum, jagirl32 invited anonymouse to express an opnion regarding jagirl32's "racial" label. Anonymouse said that jagirl32 is Black, no matter how she feels about it. This was technically not a violation of rule 2.5 because the opinion was by invitation. However, Jagirl32 has not given such an invitation in this thread. Hence, Anonymouse will stop commenting on jagirl32's "racial" label in this thread immediately or be suspended.
anonymouse wrote:
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that you believe being called black is a bad thing.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 20:00 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
Beauty wrote:
anonymouse wrote:
jagirl32 wrote:
became a memeber.
You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen.
@ jagirl32
If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed.
For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black.
an interesting as well as racist post.
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
Have I deprived you of civil liberties based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I denigrated you based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I made claims about the limits of your intellect based upon your race or ethnicity? If you cannot answer yes to any of those questions praytell how am I a racist? And how/where have I made a racist post?
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background. But unless you look like Tami Chynn and have an ambiguous phenotype, very few people in the Anglophone West Indies would refer to you as mixed.
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that you believe being called black is a bad thing.
Hi Anon, I just want to clarify something with you. Can you please explain what do you mean by most West Indians are mixed regardless of their appearance?
When I say mixed I meant the term multigenerational mixed. But I should have clarified my statement and said that it varies from island to island and from country to country. Some islands such Nevis which has a relatively large number of Amerindians may have a large number of black people with a mixed ancestry will have more than say Jamaica with a good number of people from maroon descent.
Anon, I agree with your statemenT to Jamerican that being black does not change or negates someone with a mixed background. However, I disagree only those with an ambigous phenotype are recognised as mixed. I am wondering where you have got this perspective from? Correct me if I am wrong but you are Bajan? Is this where you got your perspective from. If so I am suprised because my experiences of Bajan people contradict what you say. I am from a Jamaican background and mixed people are definately acknowledge. My experiences of other West Indians mirror this.
I am not a historian but a computer geek by trade so all i can go on is my experiences. I thought those would be acceptable seeing that the experiences of people of Creole descent in the other threads has been accepted at face value but I guess that I was wrong.
Yes I am Bajan and my viewpoints have been shaped by my experiences. I grew up in a West Indian household, spent a lot of time in Barbados growing up (when flights were cheap and covered by my parents), have a large extended very social family, was active in a church comprised primarily of West Indians, was active in West Indian culture: WIS (West Indian Society) in high school, CSA (Caribbean Students Association) in college and have always been a part of the West Indian community. My coming of age was spent in some of the nicest and some of the seediest West Indian clubs in Brooklyn & Queens (Tilden Hall, Borokeet, High Room, Q Club, etc.). Many people are shocked that even tho I was born here my everyday speaking voice is accented. I help run a West Indian bar in the Adams Morgan neighbourhood in DC owned by 2 of my closest friends.
My best friend who was pictured in that other thread will tell you he is black but when queried of his looks (he is most often mistaken for Spanish) he will say, "my dad is white". And that has been my experience with friends of black/white, East Indian/black, Chinese/Black, Amerindian/black extraction. They, for the most part, say what they appear to be and that is what they are called. But calling someone mixed and mixed only is rare. And when it happens it is usually prefaced or appended with another race: "He black but he coolie", "she black chiney", etc.
Living in NYC it seemed like every 3rd person you ran across was Jamaican. My godmother was Jamaican as were 4 families on my block. I used to quip "There are more Jamaican in Brooklyn & Queens than in Jamaica". I have spent some time in Jamaica. Liquor tends to lubricate the voicebox and lower reservations about speaking on certain topics so after sitting in a local rumshop doing shots of john crow batty with some locals and my brother-in-law endeared me to many local people so everytime I went back I was remembered as "Paul bruddah da Bajan". Riding in my other brother-in-law's minibus while he made his runs up and down MoBay also gave me perspectives which reinforced what I had already experienced. Of course when they learned I was "from foreign", people wouldn't stop talking to me. Things like, "Coolie people land in Clarendon and neva leff" leading me to believe that a large number of East Indians reside in Clarendon
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 20:12 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
fwsweet wrote:
anonymouse wrote:
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background.
In another thread in another forum, jagirl32 invited anonymouse to express an opnion regarding jagirl32's "racial" label. Anonymouse said that jagirl32 is Black, no matter how she feels about it. This was technically not a violation of rule 2.5 because the opinion was by invitation. However, Jagirl32 has not given such an invitation in this thread. Hence, Anonymouse will stop commenting on jagirl32's "racial" label in this thread immediately or be suspended.
She asked me direct question about her racial label in this thread and asked me to comment on it. So why do you say that by answering it I have committed a rules violation?
jagirl32 wrote:
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 20:14 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
anonymouse wrote:
I thought those would be acceptable seeing that the experiences of people of Creole descent in the other threads has been accepted at face value but I guess that I was wrong.
Yes. You are wrong. You seem incapable of grasping this site's posting rules. Claims of fact that match the consensus of peer-reviewed scholarly studies are seldom challenged here. Outrageously implausible claims that are flatly contradicted by the consensus of peer-reviewed scholarly studies demand a source other than an allegation of "personal experience." (An allegation which, in your case, looks increasingly fabricated.)
anonymouse wrote:
Yes I am Bajan...-
No. You are not. You are neither a resident nor an inhabitant of Barbados. The context of your current thesis is: "In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black." You are not in the English-speaking West Indies. If the context of your thesis were about the attitudes and beliefs of U.S.-born descendants of West Indian immigrants (who have assimilated to U.S. culture), then your claim to be Barbadian in this limited sense might be plausible.
anonymouse wrote:
and my viewpoints have been shaped by my experiences.
Your experiences seem to have rendered you incapable of distinguishing between the attitudes and beliefs of U.S.-born descendants of West Indian immigrants (who have assimilated to U.S. culture) and the present-day inhabitants of the former BWI (who have not).
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 20:28 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
anonymouse wrote:
fwsweet wrote:
anonymouse wrote:
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background.
In another thread in another forum, jagirl32 invited anonymouse to express an opnion regarding jagirl32's "racial" label. Anonymouse said that jagirl32 is Black, no matter how she feels about it. This was technically not a violation of rule 2.5 because the opinion was by invitation. However, Jagirl32 has not given such an invitation in this thread. Hence, Anonymouse will stop commenting on jagirl32's "racial" label in this thread immediately or be suspended.
She asked me direct question about her racial label in this thread and asked me to comment on it. So why do you say that by answering it I have committed a rules violation?
jagirl32 wrote:
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
Well, that does not look to me like jagirl32 is giving permission to comment on her "racial" identity. Let's ask her. If she agrees that she implicitly gave you permission to comment on her identity in this thread, which is supposed to be scholarly topics about the Caribbean Basin, then you are off the hook. But you must stop it anyway because your opinion criticizes her choice, and that is a violation of 2.6, which does not depend on anyone giving permission.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 20:35 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
[quote="jagirl32"]
anonymouse wrote:
jagirl32 wrote:
became a memeber.
You obviously haven't spent time around West Indians. Oh and her nationality is/could be Jamaican too. Jamaica grants citizenship if either parent is a Jamaican citizen.
@ jagirl32
If you would ask me you are Jamaican American (born jamerican lol) or just black (notice I didn't say African American). Not sure what you look like but Jamaicans would probably call you a brownin. But you still black. Most West Indian blacks no matter what they look like are mixed.
For example I have a friend from Trinidad who is a dougla (black & east indian for those who don't know) but feature wise she looks like an everyday black woman with "regular" black hair. As far as she is concerned she is black.
an interesting as well as racist post.
anon did you read and understand my racial make up? why should i say that i am black and black only when its ovious that i am not?
and as for how i look? the way i look is not going to change the fact that i am very mixed dear.
Have I deprived you of civil liberties based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I denigrated you based upon your race or ethnicity? Have I made claims about the limits of your intellect based upon your race or ethnicity? If you cannot answer yes to any of those questions praytell how am I a racist? And how/where have I made a racist post?
I have read about your racial makeup in the other thread. You asked my opinion and based on my experiences and observations I gave it. Being called black neither changes nor negates the fact that you have a mixed background. But unless you look like Tami Chynn and have an ambiguous phenotype, very few people in the Anglophone West Indies would refer to you as mixed.
Correct me if I am wrong but it appears that you believe being called black is a bad thing.
One dropping is concidered racist (especially on this site) or hav'nt you heard? also, if i was ashamed of being half black i would have lied and said my mother was of another race.
Quote:
I haven't heard. And it is not nor am I a racist. I believe this was covered in the other thread and Frank said to cut it out. And I have not "one dropped" anyone.
[quote="jagirl32"]and finally this nonsense about people having an abiguous look like tammy chynn are the only ones that are concidered mixed by people in the west indies? i think this is true only for people who think like you, and for the people of trinidad because i have never heard of this racist philosophy exsisting in jamaica nor have i experienced it there.
And again you use the word racist. I am asking you to stop.
Additionally Frank has asked me not to comment on your racial background and threatened me with suspension so I will not.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 21:00 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
fwsweet wrote:
anonymouse wrote:
I thought those would be acceptable seeing that the experiences of people of Creole descent in the other threads has been accepted at face value but I guess that I was wrong.
Yes. You are wrong. You seem incapable of grasping this site's posting rules. Claims of fact that match the consensus of peer-reviewed scholarly studies are seldom challenged here. Outrageously implausible claims that are flatly contradicted by the consensus of peer-reviewed scholarly studies demand a source other than an allegation of "personal experience." (An allegation which, in your case, looks increasingly fabricated.)
You cited a scholarly study and even specified page numbers and I attempted verify your claim. I went to purchase (or at least browse through) Black Identites: West Indian Immigrant Dreams and American Realities by Mary Waters but the according to clerk at the Borders Books the book is out of print and they would have to locate a used copy. So unless you scan those pages how am I to know what it is that Ms. Waters wrote?
fwsweet wrote:
anonymouse wrote:
Yes I am Bajan...-
No. You are not. You are neither a resident nor an inhabitant of Barbados. The context of your current thesis is: "In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black." You are not in the English-speaking West Indies. If the context of your thesis were about the attitudes and beliefs of U.S.-born descendants of West Indian immigrants (who have assimilated to U.S. culture), then your claim to be Barbadian in this limited sense might be plausible.
and my viewpoints have been shaped by my experiences.
Your experiences seem to have rendered you incapable of distinguishing between the attitudes and beliefs of U.S.-born descendants of West Indian immigrants (who have assimilated to U.S. culture) and the present-day inhabitants of the former BWI (who have not).
You have stated in the past that I can only see black and white which is indicative of my assimilation to US culture. The fact that my posts with regards to the Caribbean have never addressed strictly black on white issues seems to have been conveniently ignored by you. If that alone cannot make you rethink your stance on me then nothing I say can.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 21:22 Post subject: Re: Something you posted in response to my post when i first
anonymouse wrote:
I went to purchase (or at least browse through) Black Identites: West Indian Immigrant Dreams and American Realities by Mary Waters but the according to clerk at the Borders Books the book is out of print and they would have to locate a used copy. So unless you scan those pages how am I to know what it is that Ms. Waters wrote?
The clerk was mistaken. It is available new from any online retailer. (Amazon has the best price.) Dozens of used copies are also available from Amazon-affiliated bookstores. But if you type <"Mary C. Waters" "Black Identities"> into Google, it will take you to the book's content itself. Google has already scanned it in.
anonymouse wrote:
I am Bajan citizen by right of my birth.
Your thesis is about people In the English speaking West Indies. Are you now claiming to be In the English speaking West Indies?
anonymouse wrote:
You have stated in the past that I can only see black and white which is indicative of my assimilation to US culture. The fact that my posts with regards to the Caribbean have never addressed strictly black on white issues seems to have been conveniently ignored by you. If that alone cannot make you rethink your stance on me then nothing I say can.
Your past theses (on the non-existence of an in-between category) is not the topic here. I have no stance on you personally. I have challenged your thesis: "In the English speaking West Indies most people who come from a mixed black background are referred to as black." I am not diverted by your repeated attempts to change the subject.
Last edited by fwsweet on Sun 02 Mar 2008 14:57; edited 1 time in total
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