Posted: Sat 16 Sep 2006 00:46 Post subject: Re: these 2 guys look alike
triguy wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
sagascend wrote:
GermanChocolate wrote:
Then when would it end? Quadroons, are almost always white in color and looks. If they are "mixed" their children will be "mixed" and their grandchildren, etc. Then the one drop rule would be in effect.
I don't think it should end or see how it could. How can one's immediate descendants who don't start breeding in an isolated population get unmixed? Genes don't just go away they are selected.
I agree, especially since genetics go way beyond facial features and coloring.
Holly Robinsons husband in my opinion doesn't look 'mixed' yet he has an other thing about him, like he strongly has some euro or native andmixture in him. I've seen many 'blacks' who have very european or native features and the (other) relative could be 5-8 generations away. We could be looking at 'black' features on a 'white' person all the time, just don't recognize it as such. Why not. Why is it that (biracial & generationally mixed people) can have children who are lighter, or have curlier/straighter hair, or light colored eyes. More than themselves when they have children with ('blacks' or other mixed people) but nothing at all is passed on when they have children with whites...
I think Peete looks mixed. There are lots of dark skinned mixed folks, like Naomi Campbell.
naomi campbell may or may not be mixed. her mother is black and her father's heritage is pretty much up for grabs. she has never seen or met her biological father and, when asked once in an interview, said she is unsure of his ethnic make up.
i am not an expert like most of the people posting in this thread. i cannot offer anything scientific but i do know plenty of mulattos (not just famous but in real life i know alot-- especially children my own kids' ages) as well as a fair share of quads. i was just somewhere w/ a friend the other day and he pointed to someone he knew and said "she said her father is mixed and her mother is white." this was a 30 year old woman and i am here to tell you-- there was nothing whatsoever negroid about this woman's appearance. she looked like a central european-- like she hailed from germany, poland or the UK. and as a side note she was quite plain looking... i couldn't help but think "damn, a touch of africa would do nothing but help that girl's looks!" i have a friend who is mulatta and who has coloring somewhere between alicia keys and halle berry. she has 3 girls by her ex husband, who is white. the first girl looks hispanic. her skin is dark olive, she has medium brown hair which is bone straight and her features look like a combo of her parents. my friend's two younger children are probably going to be mistaken for blond white children who are blessed w/ a pretty all-year tan. my point is, quads can come out looking as mulatto as their mixed parent or as white as their white ancestors. its a toss up.
also, just my 2 cents, but eartha kitt's daughter would not be considered a quad. her daughter has just as much native blood as she does black.
I never said that all quadroons look white, I said they almost always are. My youngest daughter is a quadroon, so I would know.
My point was quadroons, and octoroons, shouldn't be forced to say they are mixed. Otherwise it keeps that one drop rule alive. To me the one drop rule is having to claim being "mixed" no matter how small the amount of African heritage.
Just for the record I never said Halle Berry is a quadroon, she is mulatto. Which I think someone brought out.
Who are you responding to??
I hear what your saying but to base a large group of people on 1 child, doesn't work.
Depending on how you view race to me, will determine use of mixed or not for a quadroon or octoroon.
Personally I don't believe RACE is a biological truth. It's a racist idea just like the ODR, so in my opinion if you play with one you automatically get caught with the other.
Now to finish, unless you know the parentage of a person, you may think your looking at a 50/50 biracial but in accuality the person could be quadroon. I have a buddy who is octoroon, his father looks biracial and my friend still doesn't look white.
Here is Jade from Americas Next Top Model
She is a 'quadroon' her father is biracial
I was responding to sicilianpride.
I agree with what you are saying. My point was that quadroons almost always look white. Meaning, sometimes they do not. When I mentioned I have a daughter who is quadroon, I was backing up my point. Although my daughter is only 1/4 black she does not look 100% white at all. She looks "white" feature wise but not in complexion. Her complexion is more like a Jewish person. But then again, it depends on the person, many ppl think she looks white.
My whole point was that as long as a person has to say "I am 1/4..1/8..1/16 black" and so on that is one dropping them. Especially since no other races have to do that..ever seen a white person say, "I'm 1/8 chinese." ?? It seems that ppl are only considering persons with some African heritage as mixed, but when they have heritages from other races they are not considered mixed.
Ultimately, there really is only one race: Human. But, the world doesn't think that way, sadly.
Joined: 04 Dec 2006 {Posts: 7 } Location: Newport News, Virginia
Posted: Wed 20 Dec 2006 02:09 Post subject: Princess Alexandra....
I'm new here so please forgive me. I'm wondering what's the mixture or lineage of Princess Alexandra, I saw her being mentioned and pictures of her and her children as being mixed. What is she mixed with?
Posted: Wed 20 Dec 2006 03:34 Post subject: Re: Princess Alexandra....
Mulattoqueen29 wrote:
I'm new here so please forgive me. I'm wondering what's the mixture or lineage of Princess Alexandra, I saw her being mentioned and pictures of her and her children as being mixed. What is she mixed with?
According to Wikipedia: "Of Chinese, British, Polish and Austrian ancestry, Alexandra Manley was born in Hong Kong, as the eldest of three daughters of Richard Nigel Manley (born in Shanghai in 1924 to a British father and Chinese mother) and Christa Maria Manley (née Nowotny, born in Austria in 1933)."
British supermodel NAOMI CAMPBELL will never know the true identity of her birth father because her mother doesn't want her to.
The stunning catwalk star, whose father is Chinese, has no plans to go against her mother's wishes and find out who her dad is.
She says, "I never met my father. My mother doesn't want it and my birth certificate, which the whole world has run to pick up in England to see, it says `cross, cross, cross.'
"She doesn't want it and I've always respected her wishes."
According to Arena Magazine her mother said "he was of mixed race and had a touch of Chinese in him"
Posted: Wed 28 Feb 2007 20:43 Post subject: Historical context
If you wish to have an intelligent debate about the contradictions of racial categories, terms such as mulatto, quadroon and octaroon convey a much more specific image, than just "mixed".
And, to further the cause of precision even further, it would be perhaps appropriate to say "historical quadroon" or "historical mulatto" just as we say "historical black college".
Posted: Thu 01 Mar 2007 15:13 Post subject: Re: Historical context
Christina wrote:
If you wish to have an intelligent debate about the contradictions of racial categories, terms such as mulatto, quadroon and octaroon convey a much more specific image, than just "mixed".
What makes you say that those 17-century Spanish terms "convey a much more specfic image"?
It was shown over 70 years ago that people with the same fraction of Afro-Euro ancestry can vary in appearance all over the map. [See Melville J. Herskovits, The Anthropometry of the American Negro (New York: Columbia University, 1930) and Caroline Bond Day and Earnest Albert Hooton, A Study of Some Negro-White Families in the United States (Cambridge MA: Harvard University, 1932).] It is true that appearance is related to parental lineages in the first biracial generation, but all bets are off in subsequent generations. After the first mixed generation, looks depend solely upon the luck of the meiosis draw, nothing more. For example, no person of 12 percent sub-Saharan ancestry (once called "octoroon") or less has ever been found who looks anything other than "white" European. People of 25 percent sub-Saharan ancestry (once called "quadroon") range from Nordic-looking, to vaguely Mediterranean-looking (Geraldo Rivera) to distinctly "Hispanic-looking." And people of multi-generational 50-50 ancestry (once called "mulatto") can range from the palest blue-eyed blonde Nordic looks to the darkest of Nigerian looks. [See Black Parents with White Kids for some examples.]
In short, it has been over 70 years since anyone familiar with physical anthropology or genetics has believed in a relationship between fraction of Afro ancestry and appearance for members of a multi-generational mixed population. This is simply not the way that DNA works.
For details on this, with actual probabilities of different gradations of apperance from precisley the same ancestry, see The Heredity of "Racial" Traits.
Posted: Thu 01 Mar 2007 16:50 Post subject: Re: Historical context
fwsweet wrote:
Christina wrote:
If you wish to have an intelligent debate about the contradictions of racial categories, terms such as mulatto, quadroon and octaroon convey a much more specific image, than just "mixed".
What makes you say that those 17-century Spanish terms "convey a much more specfic image"?
It was shown over 70 years ago that people with the same fraction of Afro-Euro ancestry can vary in appearance all over the map. [See Melville J. Herskovits, The Anthropometry of the American Negro (New York: Columbia University, 1930) and Caroline Bond Day and Earnest Albert Hooton, A Study of Some Negro-White Families in the United States (Cambridge MA: Harvard University, 1932).] It is true that appearance is related to parental lineages in the first biracial generation, but all bets are off in subsequent generations. After the first
mixed generation, looks depend solely upon the luck of the meiosis draw, nothing more. For example, no person of 12 percent sub-Saharan ancestry (once called "octoroon") or less has ever been found who looks anything other than "white" European. People of 25 percent sub-Saharan ancestry (once called "quadroon") range from Nordic-looking, to vaguely Mediterranean-looking (Geraldo Rivera) to distinctly "Hispanic-looking." And people of multi-generational 50-50 ancestry (once called "mulatto") can range from the palest blue-eyed blonde Nordic looks to the darkest of Nigerian looks. [See Black Parents with White Kids for some examples.]
In short, it has been over 70 years since anyone familiar with physical anthropology or genetics has believed in a relationship between fractiopn of Afro ancestry and appearance for members of a multi-generational mixed population. This is simply not the way that DNA works.
For details on this, with actual probabilities of different gradations of apperance from precisley the same ancestry, see The Heredity of "Racial" Traits.
I have a more basic understanding of DNA than what my posts might imply. I never meant to imply that there was a definative relationship between theoretical fractions of Afro-Ancestry and appearance. And certainly, I never meant to disreguard the DNA related impact of multi-generational mixed population in our culture.
I understand quite clearly, the science behind multi-generational DNA But, I was writing in the context of whether "Mixed" versus something more specific such as Octaroon or Mulatto would add more clarity to a discussion involving racial features/priveledges/issues. Particularly when the discussions involve the Antebellum south. At least that's what I was thinking.
But, having expressed a preference for the more specific 17th century Spanish terminiology, over just "mixed" should not be taken as an endorsement of the non-scientific foundation that underlies them. I had hoped that by using a qualifier such as "Historic" that I would place sufficient distance between the ideas that underscored these Spanish terms and the purely superficial way that I was using them.
If I have offended anyone, my apologies. In the future, I will use Celebrity figures to add clarity or to delineate physical appearance when appropriate.
My grandad on my mom`s side is 1/2 carib(from father),1/4 indian,1/8 scottish,1/8 black(from mother),he`s only 1/8 black but he kind of look black which is strange,he has hazel eyes too.Him and his siblings have different features and skin complexions.He is darker than me and i wouldn`t have thought that i`m mixed with more black than him,i think the proper thing to call him is mixed or multi-racial saying ameridian-indo-scot-african cariabbean is too long. I think its instersting to know how a person with 1/8 black looks like (a person who has one white parent and the other one is half white and half black).An old friend of mines from brasil told me secretly that her dad`s mom is black so that`s why her dad has dark hair,i realise that her dad must of came out white.She`s pretty with brown straight hair and green eyes.I heard her tell her white friends about her different europeans backgrounds but i never heard her mention the black part,i was wondering if she wants to appear more white to them to please them or if she was afraid that they would say she`s black because of the one drop rule and she wants to identify herself as white ,i have no problem with that but i think its sad that some of us would not mention our background because people would start on the one drop rule thing,if that never existed i know that people wouldn`t be hiding their background anymore.
Joined: 10 May 2007 {Posts: 138 } Location: Oklahoma City
Posted: Mon 14 May 2007 15:24 Post subject: Re: hi
cherri2 wrote:
i think its sad that some of us would not mention our background because people would start on the one drop rule thing,if that never existed i know that people wouldn`t be hiding their background anymore.
It is sad, and why a lot of people (74 million according to here) either don't know or hide their ancestry.
Posted: Mon 14 May 2007 15:36 Post subject: Re: hi
kalima wrote:
It is sad, and why a lot of people (74 million according to here) either don't know or hide their ancestry.
My guess is that most honestly have no clue, although this may change as online databases make genealogical research easier, and as genetic testing becomes more popular.
The destruction of the independent ethno-cultural group gens de couleur of the Gulf Coast, from which you trace some of your heritage, is so historically recent that people still remember it. But there have been many similar biracial groups in U.S. history that were dissolved, or split into Black and White branches, centuries ago and that are now forgotten by everyone but historians. All it takes is one generation of parental concealment to lose a heritage forever.
Yes. It is sad.
Last edited by fwsweet on Tue 15 May 2007 16:34; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 {Posts: 226 } Location: Seattle
Posted: Wed 16 Jan 2008 03:33 Post subject: Re: Why not call mulattos and quadroons mixed instead of black o
sicilianpride wrote:
or white? That seems to be a better solution...
At this point, I would have to agree.
IMO, the success of Black Power literally DESTROYED a TRUE black-mulatto allegiance (and rightfully so)
for that is what the Black Power movement was essentially about - liberating and empowering BLACKS!!!
The faux-concept of "the light-skinned black person" is COMPLETELY anti-scientific, anti-historical...and, ultimately, anti-human.
Last edited by lsgh on Wed 16 Jan 2008 04:06; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 {Posts: 226 } Location: Seattle
Posted: Wed 16 Jan 2008 03:36 Post subject:
zsana wrote:
sagascend wrote:
Quote:
Once the mix occurs how does it "revert" to something unmixed? The mixture does not go away, it is not lost.
Not on a genetic level, but on a phenotypical level (to the naked eye) mixture can be lost. Happens all the time and we all know this. People are "racially" categorized (and categorize others), are discriminated against or favored based on what populations they most favor/identically look like. Not based on their DNA.
If it looks like a duck... Well we all know the rest.
correct.
Last edited by lsgh on Wed 16 Jan 2008 04:06; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 02 Oct 2007 {Posts: 226 } Location: Seattle
Posted: Wed 16 Jan 2008 04:05 Post subject: Re: hi
cherri2 wrote:
i think its sad that some of us would not mention our background because people would start on the one drop rule thing, if that never existed i know that people wouldn`t be hiding their background anymore.
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i have a friend who is mulatta and who has coloring somewhere between alicia keys and halle berry. she has 3 girls by her ex husband, who is white. the first girl looks hispanic. her skin is dark olive, she has medium brown hair which is bone straight and her features look like a combo of her parents. my friend's two younger children are probably going to be mistaken for blond white children who are blessed w/ a pretty all-year tan. my point is, quads can come out looking as mulatto as their mixed parent or as white as their white ancestors. its a toss up.
I think its instersting to know how a person with 1/8 black looks like (a person who has one white parent and the other one is half white and half black).An old friend of mines from brasil told me secretly that her dad`s mom is black so that`s why her dad has dark hair,i realise that her dad must of came out white.She`s pretty with brown straight hair and green eyes.I heard her tell her white friends about her different europeans backgrounds but i never heard her mention the black part,i was wondering if she wants to appear more white to them to please them or if she was afraid that they would say she`s black because of the one drop rule and she wants to identify herself as white ,i have no problem with that but i think its sad that some of us would not mention our background because people would start on the one drop rule thing,if that never existed i know that people wouldn`t be hiding their background anymore.