Posted: Sun 04 Nov 2007 01:47 Post subject: Re: Storyville
gemini072 wrote:
LSGH wrote:
St. Augustine Catholic Church was built in 1803 with funds provided by Cane River Creole patriarch, Nicolas Augustine Metoyer, and his brother, Louis. St. Augustine is believed to be the first Catholic church in the United States that was built and supported by Creoles of color. The church has been the hub of social and spiritual life for the Isle Brevelle community for two hundred years. It is here that the community holds annual homecomings and special events that draw family members back to Isle Brevelle from all across the country...
My uncle is a descendent of Augustine Metoyer. He grew up amoung the Cane River creoles. He married my aunt, who is not creole.
unfortunately, i dont speak the language or do anything that is culturally related to being creole.
Do you plan to recapture your heritage language and culture any time soon? That's the only way that it will survive. David Cheramie, executive director of CODOFIL didn't become fluent in French until he started college. Recapturing his heritage language gave him the inspiration to fight to preserve the Cajun language and culture.
Posted: Mon 05 Nov 2007 17:16 Post subject: the Placage System
And the Placage System
by Ellen Micheletti
In Sandra Hill's humorous time travel romance, Frankly, My Dear, Selene the heroine, is a supermodel swept back in time to New Orleans about 20 years before the Civil War. When Selene arrives, she is wearing a ball gown in the style of The Old South. For purposes of her modeling career, she has had her black hair done in a curly perm which has a tendency to frizz. Selene also has an allover tan left over from a swimsuit shoot, she is wearing contact lenses to make her eyes look dark brown, and she has had collagen injections in her lips to give them a fashionable full and pouty look. To the people of New Orleans, she looks like a quadroon.
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So what exactly is a quadroon? In New Orleans and Louisiana, before the Civil War there was a sizable population of free men and women of mixed race. They were known on legal documents as gens de couleur and femmes de couleur. There was an elaborate caste system among them based on skin color. A mulatto was the offspring of a black and a white. A griffe was the offspring of a mulatto and a black, a quadroon was the offspring of a mulatto and a white and an octoroon was the offspring of a quadroon and a white. There were other terms used as well (os rouge for example) if the person had Indian ancestry. It all got to be very confusing.
The gens de couleur worked in various occupations. Some were artisans and small businessmen. Many were farmers, and a few of these grew quite wealthy. They owned large plantations and owned slaves of their own. The treatment of these mixed race men by the white Creoles* varied. Sometimes they were treated as fellow businessmen and at other times they were treated with contempt. A Creole plantation owner would buy, sell and transact business with a mixed race plantation owner, but would not eat a meal with him. Some of the gens de couleur could not take this treatment and left for France, where they formed a colony of expatriates. One of them, Norbert Rilleux, invented a way to process sugar cane that revolutionized the Louisiana sugar industry.
But what of the femmes de couleur? These women were prohibited by law from marrying white men and caste prejudice kept them from marrying black men. Their social behavior was regulated by various insulting laws and codes. For example, they were not to go about in daylight in extravagant dress. At one point, in Frankly My Dear, someone asks Selene where her tignon (head covering) is. One of the governers had actually passed a law prohibiting mixed race women from wearing jewels and headdresses with plumes. His law decreed that they must wear scarves (tignons) on their heads when they were out in public.
Compared to the free men of color, the women's choices in life were severely limited. A few did marry men of mixed race, but not often. One of them - Henriette Delille - founded an order of nuns, but most of these women became mistresses to the white Creole men of New Orleans in a system called placage. The men would choose their mistresses at the Quadroon Balls.
The Quadroon Balls at one point were one of the social events of New Orleans. The quadroon women were, by by almost all accounts, lovely and refined. The laws against extravagent dress for mixed race women did not apply at the Quadroon Balls and the women came dressed in the most fashionable of gowns and chaperoned by their mothers. If a man wanted to talk to one of them, he asked her mother's permission to pay court to her. The young woman did not have to accept just any man, but if she met someone she liked, he would meet with her mother to make arrangements.
These arrangements were to give the woman a home (a small cottage) and a financial arrangement for her and any children. How long did the arrangement last? In some cases for only a short time, in others for many years and in a few - for life. Some men broke off the relationship when they married, but others continued it. Sometimes one could see a man's two families at the Opera, the white one in the boxes and the quadroon one in the balcony.
If a man did break the relationship, the woman kept her financial settlement. Often she would go into business as a dressmaker, milliner or hair-dresser. And the femmes de couleur had almost a complete monopoly on the boarding house business.
This system was certainly odd, and one that was unique to New Orleans. Only in New Orleans was there an institution that allowed men to choose and keep mistresses with the tacit approval of society. The Quadroon Balls died out before the Civil War and the building where they were held was taken over Henriette Delille's nuns. Europeans who travelled in America left their impression of the Quadroon Balls in their memoirs. The "tragic quadroon" was a stock figure in the fiction and melodrama of the 19th century, and the quadroon girls and their lovers figure in novels and short stories of the period. The romance novel Shadows on the Bayou, by Patricia Vaughn, uses the institution of the Quadroon Ball as its plot and Henriette Delille makes an appearance.
When I was stationed in New Orleans, I lived in Algiers (US Naval Base) and worked on Dauphine Street and there was a distinction between the Creoles and Cajuns. The Creoles was usually the mixed ancestry and the Cajuns tended to be more European bayou living and poor! There was a 'grey' area where Creoles and Cajuns mixed but it seemed that their phenotype (back to that again) determined where they fit. If they were on the black side (they were relegated to Creole and if they were on the Euro phenotype side, they were Cajun!
Southern University, if I recall right was where many of that group tended to matriculate but as usual if you were good enough academically, then Tulane University was the place to go.
I am reading more about Anatole Broyard and I can see his viewpoint that if he wanting to be anything, he had to move awy from his 'roots' and make a life for himself.
That is what it took for him (and other non Anglo Saxon people) to get where he was! He had to deny part of himself and ingratiate himself with the correct amount of boldness and bravo at the expense of his inner soul.
At what cost? Is it /was it really worth it?
Can anyone elaborate on the nature of the relationship between Cajuns and Creoles in more detail . They appear to be culturally similar, but do they socialize intimately at all or do they simply coexist down there? Was there a time when there was more meaningful interaction between the two?
Can anyone elaborate on the nature of the relationship between Cajuns and Creoles in more detail . They appear to be culturally similar, but do they socialize intimately at all or do they simply coexist down there? Was there a time when there was more meaningful interaction between the two?
Historically (culturally), the Acadians immigrated from Canada in the 1760s and 1770s, while the Creoles of Colour immigrated from Haiti about one generation later.
Posted: Thu 15 Nov 2007 02:03 Post subject: Creoles
fwsweet wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Can anyone elaborate on the nature of the relationship between Cajuns and Creoles in more detail . They appear to be culturally similar, but do they socialize intimately at all or do they simply coexist down there? Was there a time when there was more meaningful interaction between the two?
Historically (culturally), the Acadians immigrated from Canada in the 1760s and 1770s, while the Creoles of Colour immigrated from Haiti about one generation later.
Didn't the migration from what is now Haiti only contribute to the nascent Creole community that was already growing? Gary Mills' book on Cane River's Creoles of Color, for example, shows a prominent family with no origin in Saint-Domingue.
I used to go to Baton Rouge alot and I did not see nor was I aware of any animosity between the two groups. One thing I noticed was that they could tell each others roots (Creole or Cajun) by asking their family name. It seems everybody was a Boudreau(x), Breaux or some similar spelling or Leroy (Lehroy for the Cajun/Creole community and Leeroy for the anglo group regarding pronunciation).
fwsweet,
I do not believe the Creoles (de color) arrived later in Louisiana than the Acadians because Jean Baptiste du Sable went to the area known as Louisiana before he ended up in Chicago (1779-not sure but this is close).
I realize what the historical record says but by Du Sable being the only documented 'foreigner' de color, does not mean he was the only one.
I also acknowledge that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence!
Any non European who did great deeds or similar was rarely acknowledged unless it was so common and spectular that it could not be ignored! Just like Los Angeles being developed by creoles from the Virgin Islands of all places. Another story!
I do not believe the Creoles (de color) arrived later in Louisiana than the Acadians because Jean Baptiste du Sable went to the area known as Louisiana before he ended up in Chicago (1779-not sure but this is close).
Powell is correct. I did not mean to suggest that there were no Creoles in Louisiana until the 1790s and thereafter. France began colonizing Louisiana in 1699 and New Orleans was founded in 1718. From that point on, there were Creoles there, since the term originally meant simply "born in the New World." All I was trying to say with my parenthetical adverb was that many, if not most, of the cultural traits that we associate nowadays with the "gens de couleur libre" (dialect, music, food, religious observances, etc.) arrived from Haiti with the mass of immigrants fleeing the chaos of the revolution.
When I was stationed in New Orleans, I lived in Algiers (US Naval Base) and worked on Dauphine Street and there was a distinction between the Creoles and Cajuns. The Creoles was usually the mixed ancestry and the Cajuns tended to be more European bayou living and poor! There was a 'grey' area where Creoles and Cajuns mixed but it seemed that their phenotype (back to that again) determined where they fit. If they were on the black side (they were relegated to Creole and if they were on the Euro phenotype side, they were Cajun!
Southern University, if I recall right was where many of that group tended to matriculate but as usual if you were good enough academically, then Tulane University was the place to go.
I am reading more about Anatole Broyard and I can see his viewpoint that if he wanting to be anything, he had to move awy from his 'roots' and make a life for himself.
That is what it took for him (and other non Anglo Saxon people) to get where he was! He had to deny part of himself and ingratiate himself with the correct amount of boldness and bravo at the expense of his inner soul.
At what cost? Is it /was it really worth it?
I used to teach at Delgado's West Bank Campus right next door!
My alma mater, Xavier University, is an HBCU, but has historically educated many Creoles, as well. I fit in just fine! People rarely even asked what I was during the 15 years I lived in New Orleans. I reckon most of them just assumed I was Creole/Black.
Posted: Mon 19 Nov 2007 14:53 Post subject: from LSGH: Monsieur Gilberte E. Martin I
MONSIEUR GILBERT E. MARTIN I
FOUNDER: The International French Créole Cultural Society
FOUNDER: The Louisiana Reclamation Movement
PIONEER: The Créole Non-Violent Revolution
AUTHOR : "Créole Chronology", "Passé Pour Blanc"
Monsieur Martin was born in The 7th Ward,
"Le Cœur" of the Créole section of Nouvelle Orleans,
13 Avril 1923.
At 19, he left Le Vieux Carré for
Le Corps des Marines Américains,
in which he served for over 3 years.
Monsieur Martin concluded that
Louisiana French Créoles
are an Independent Nation.
In 1979, he founded The International
French Créole Cultural Society.
He advocated for the unification of The French Créole Nation,
not only in the province of Louisiane,
but throughout The Worldwide French Diaspora.
In 1994, Monsieur founded the Louisiana Reclamation Movement to
re-expose The Louisiana Territory as LA TERRITOIRE FRENCH CRÉOLE:
"Martin argues that the French Créoles of Louisiana are entitled to
tax exemptions and tax refunds, not only from federal government but
from each and every State where they have been made to pay income
or property taxes.
He makes that assumption because he said that, the United States did,
in deed, receive and make use of 908,380 square miles of Territory.
And for that acquisition, Martin claims, that U.S. guaranteed that it
would comply with the treaty and provide to the French Créoles and their
descendants many of the rights they did not receive."
www.frenchcreoles.com
This just verifies what I say that, creoles have become a sub sect to blacks. The fact that blacks get angry that Beyonce and Solonge are part creole shows that blacks don’t view creole as a unique separate ethnic group. They view creole as a culture but nothing more, because as soon as they saw that beyonce and solonge had black ancestry they put the one drop blood rule on them as claimed them as black. If they were Puerto Ricans blacks would say nothing Puerto Ricans are Latinos.
Beyonce and Solange do identify as Black women though. It's not as if they're saying they identify as Creole and Creole only.
When I was stationed in New Orleans, I lived in Algiers (US Naval Base) and worked on Dauphine Street and there was a distinction between the Creoles and Cajuns. The Creoles was usually the mixed ancestry and the Cajuns tended to be more European bayou living and poor! There was a 'grey' area where Creoles and Cajuns mixed but it seemed that their phenotype (back to that again) determined where they fit. If they were on the black side (they were relegated to Creole and if they were on the Euro phenotype side, they were Cajun!
Southern University, if I recall right was where many of that group tended to matriculate but as usual if you were good enough academically, then Tulane University was the place to go.
I am reading more about Anatole Broyard and I can see his viewpoint that if he wanting to be anything, he had to move awy from his 'roots' and make a life for himself.
That is what it took for him (and other non Anglo Saxon people) to get where he was! He had to deny part of himself and ingratiate himself with the correct amount of boldness and bravo at the expense of his inner soul.
At what cost? Is it /was it really worth it?
I used to teach at Delgado's West Bank Campus right next door!
My alma mater, Xavier University, is an HBCU, but has historically educated many Creoles, as well. I fit in just fine! People rarely even asked what I was during the 15 years I lived in New Orleans. I reckon most of them just assumed I was Creole/Black.
People usually assumed I was Creole too while in LA. However, my last name usually threw them off as I do not have a French last name.
Having been raised in Louisiana (New Orleans), it is generally understaood that Creoles were the mixed or 'Black' relatives of Cajuns. Although many would debate this.
Choice, looks and strongest family ties would determine where a cross b/w the two would emerge. I have met many White grandparents, nieces, cousins, grandchildren, etc of 'Black' Creoles.
If you are part black and you are part white, are you not black as well as white? What is the problem? If people were to say you're white instead, would that be a problem? I feel like it wouldn't be for some because I feel that some biracial people have a problem with blackness. They don't want to be tainted with the stigma of blackness. They cry "one drop rule" but if you're half black, that seems like far more than one drop. And if for all the world you look black, how else do you expect people to identify you?
I think some blacks do get angry at biracial people and are suspicious of people who look pretty black claiming another ancestry because of the well know stigma against blackness. They perceive that such people are trying to prove they are better and the whole history of the "buffer race" of "coloreds" bringing double oppression down on blacks rears it ugly head.
When I have my biracial child I will teach him or her that they are not superior because they have white blood. I will teach him or her that they should be proud that they are white and that they are also black, and that depending on how they appear people will classify them as either or and that's OK, because they in fact are BOTH.
If you are part black and you are part white, are you not black as well as white? What is the problem? If people were to say you're white instead, would that be a problem? I feel like it wouldn't be for some because I feel that some biracial people have a problem with blackness. They don't want to be tainted with the stigma of blackness. They cry "one drop rule" but if you're half black, that seems like far more than one drop. And if for all the world you look black, how else do you expect people to identify you?
I think some blacks do get angry at biracial people and are suspicious of people who look pretty black claiming another ancestry because of the well know stigma against blackness. They perceive that such people are trying to prove they are better and the whole history of the "buffer race" of "coloreds" bringing double oppression down on blacks rears it ugly head.
When I have my biracial child I will teach him or her that they are not superior because they have white blood. I will teach him or her that they should be proud that they are white and that they are also black, and that depending on how they appear people will classify them as either or and that's OK, because they in fact are BOTH.
Mp: Some of your post are confusing because you advocated to some degree black of all tones being should be black on other post. Now you are saying you are going to have a bi racial child who will be mixed with white. Yet you accused me on another post of feeling superior because I am bi racial, and will get some benefits because of being biracial mixed.
Yet you are wanting to have a bi racial child. You also criticized on other post other people who are light skinned blacks as wanting to escape blackness because of the stigma that is attached to being black. In my opinion if you have a mixed race phenotype, and you want to escape unjustifiable persecution you have every right too.
From my observation a light skin black is a mixed race person, they have every right to identify mixed race instead of black only. The only way they can do this is to accept and acknowledge that they are mixed race and stop calling themselves black or African Americans only. They need to call themselves mixed race or some name that will come across as mixed race. The black race is a racial group not an ethnic group like Hispanics. Some light skin blacks prefer to be labeled and called African American and they should have that right. I say if there are mixed race people who want to be labeled separate then leave them alone and let them go. There must be some value in having them around. On top o that you said you are going to have bi racial children – how come you did not choose to have a mate from your ethnic group? Love comes in all shades I know but still you could chosen a mate from your own race.
You also said or insinuated that African Americans come in all colors and even white. But you now say that you will tell your children that they will be treated according to how they look (black or white).
Yet many of those so called white looking blacks are treated as white and they are born to two black identified parents. And, society and African Americans view these people as white. You seen to be unhappy with light skin blacks who accept they are mixed and yet you said you will teach your biracial kids to accept that they are black and white. Yet some of these so called light skin blacks when they acknowledge they are mixed they are called self hatred filled and running away from being black Americans.
You insinuated that many are trying to get away from being black (African American) by wanting to be mixed race. Yet you want your kids to honor their white ancestry but yet don't want light skin blacks to honor their white ancestry. You come across as filled with contradictions.
This why I say let be and live their lives according to how they want to live.
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People rarely even asked what I was during the 15 years I lived in New Orleans. I reckon most of them just assumed I was Creole/Black.
