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AVERAGES FOR BLACK, MIXED, WHITE FACES - SURPRISING
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ImBack
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Feb 2008 06:35    Post subject: AVERAGES FOR BLACK, MIXED, WHITE FACES - SURPRISING Reply with quote

How do I post pictures here, I want to share computer generations I made?
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Flutterby
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Feb 2008 06:45    Post subject: Reply with quote

First, its a good idea to set up an account with Photobucket, Snapfish, Shutterbug, or Imageshack. There may be others, but those are some I am familiar with. Put your pictures there. You can size them down to fit on a post here. Once you have your pcitures there, there should be directions on how to post them here. Good luck!
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OTHER
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PostPosted: Wed 06 Feb 2008 12:22    Post subject: Re: AVERAGES FOR BLACK, MIXED, WHITE FACES - SURPRISING Reply with quote

ImBack wrote:
How do I post pictures here, I want to share computer generations I made?


It was not too long ago that I asked that same question. William directed me here:

How to include pictures in a message
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ImBack
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2008 13:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

Ok thanks guys. Here are the pictures. Notice how the faces which are more intermediate appear to be disproportionately "european". This is the "white-shift" effect, as I call it.




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sagascend
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2008 15:20    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is pretty cool ImBack.

Quote:

Ok thanks guys. Here are the pictures. Notice how the faces which are more intermediate appear to be disproportionately "european". This is the "white-shift" effect, as I call it.


Looking at the pictures of the more European faces it struck me that a lot of "White" people who would be seen as "undeniably" white easily have 1/4 SSA ancestry. I think the white-shift effect you are talking about is due to the glossing over of admixture period. Both models in the 25% - 66% range might be asked "what are you?" depending on other non-facial racialized traits they possess.

Plus I suspect the "black" (is that defined as 100% SSA ancestry? It's a bit ambiguous) models you used have admixture.


Last edited by sagascend on Thu 07 Feb 2008 22:42; edited 1 time in total
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OTHER
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2008 17:48    Post subject: Reply with quote

sagascend wrote:
This is pretty cool ImBack.

Quote:

Ok thanks guys. Here are the pictures. Notice how the faces which are more intermediate appear to be disproportionately "european". This is the "white-shift" effect, as I call it.


Looking at the pictures of the more European faces it struck me that a lot of "White" people who would be seen as "undeniably" white easily have 1/4 SSA ancestry. I think the white-shift effect you are talking about is due to the glossing over of admixture period. Both models in the 25% - 66% range might be asked "what are you?" depending on other non-facial racialized traits they possess.

Plus I suspect the "black" (is that defined as 100% SSA ancestry? It's a bit ambiguous) models you used have admixture.



Yeah, my niece has the same skin color and hair color as the "white" girl on the far right, but my niece's blue eyes are lighter than the girl in the picture. Most people would probably just laugh and roll their eyes if my niece told them she was part black.
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Bischoff
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2008 21:11    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your niece a Quadroon ?
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ImBack
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2008 22:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

In my opinion, the faces all the way down to 2/3rd white are actually acceptable as white. This comes from my personal experience, and people I have known with similar features have been accepted as white, without question. This process is continuing, by the way, from what I can tell of general sociological trends.

Anyway, the black models do have some admixture, I think. I couldnt get any really really "negro" looking ones. The white models on the other hand also have clearly less than hyper-"nordic" features. In this case, I think it works out pretty evenly so the results are fairly unbiased.
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Bischoff
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PostPosted: Thu 07 Feb 2008 23:31    Post subject: Reply with quote

There are plenty of South Europeans who fall into the 2/3 White phenotype of the models. You know the ambiguous South Euro types who get asked if they are Mexican or Arab for example. A friend of mine who is Brazilian but who's ancestors come from Napoli was asked a couple of times if she was Mexican when she visited Texas a few yeas ago by both Anglos and Blacks probably because of the combination of her heavy foreign accent and swarthy complexion. Many Texans probably think all people in Texas who speak English with a heavy accent and have a swarthy complexion who do not look East Asian must be Mexican. But in New York where the locals are more used to the Mediterranean look she got more accurate responses from New Yorker and many correctly guessed her to be of Italian descent and or Brazilian nationality. She was also asked if she was Jewish or Greek.
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Phil345
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2008 03:56    Post subject: Reply with quote

How can somebody have 2/3 fraction of anything? Isnt that impossible?
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Salsassin
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2008 05:05    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil345 wrote:
How can somebody have 2/3 fraction of anything? Isnt that impossible?

2/3rds of a phenotype generated by averaging multitudes of European phenotypes.

http://www.faceoftomorrow.com/
http://www.faceresearch.org/
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fwsweet
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2008 11:32    Post subject: Reply with quote

Phil345 wrote:
How can somebody have 2/3 fraction of anything? Isnt that impossible?

You had about 1,000 ancestors alive when Richard Allen founded the AME church (in the 1790s). If 667 of them had blood type "A" then 2/3 of your ancestry is blood type "A" .
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OTHER
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2008 12:25    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bischoff wrote:
Is your niece a Quadroon ?


Technically, like, mathematically, probably not. My sister and I identify as mixed/mulatto/black&white because our dad is "black" and our mom is white. But, my dad was what is called "high yella" and he had blue-green eyes. By way of the US, via his "African-American" father and by way of the islands, via his Jamaican/Barbadian mother, we know of plenty of types of European mixed in. So, what I'm saying is, yes, my niece is the child of a white man and a mulatto woman. BUT, for all I know, my sister and I aren't even quadroons, if you catch my drift. I plan to get the autosomal admixture test done this month. I'm sure I cannot possibly be 50% Sub-Saharan African. Maybe I'm somewhere between 25 and 50, but the more I think about my dad and his family, the more I prepare myself to get results similar to Frank's.
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2008 16:06    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bischoff wrote:
There are plenty of South Europeans who fall into the 2/3 White phenotype of the models. You know the ambiguous South Euro types who get asked if they are Mexican or Arab for example. A friend of mine who is Brazilian but who's ancestors come from Napoli was asked a couple of times if she was Mexican when she visited Texas a few yeas ago by both Anglos and Blacks probably because of the combination of her heavy foreign accent and swarthy complexion. Many Texans probably think all people in Texas who speak English with a heavy accent and have a swarthy complexion who do not look East Asian must be Mexican. But in New York where the locals are more used to the Mediterranean look she got more accurate responses from New Yorker and many correctly guessed her to be of Italian descent and or Brazilian nationality. She was also asked if she was Jewish or Greek.










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gemini072
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PostPosted: Fri 08 Feb 2008 16:39    Post subject: Lisa Gaye Hamilton & Kenya Moore Reply with quote

[quote="ImBack"]Ok thanks guys. Here are the pictures. Notice how the faces which are more intermediate appear to be disproportionately "european". This is the "white-shift" effect, as I call it.



As soon as I saw the first I'm I thought of actress Lisa Gaye Hamilton



http://www.serieslive.com/img/acteurs/lisa_gay_hamilton.jpg

The reason I'm posting this is because Lisa is 'mixed' generational (I don't now what extent) She has a full blooded sister that looks like the girl that is 1/2 1/2 or 2/3

The hair you see in this picture of Lisa is her natural hair, she has natural curly hair. And the picture of the 'black' girl reminded me of someone(Lis) who is 'mixed'



http://www.variety.com/graphics/photos/_mugh/hamilton_lisa_gay.jpg





http://i.imdb.com/Photos/Ss/0120603/beloved12.jpg[/

I love presenting people like her, especially people who "most definately get the (she just looks black, America will see her as black) response"
People who are in fact mixed but because they are dark skinned and or have features that don't look (other) get tarbrushed.

My cousin has horror stories of people black/mixed needing proof that her hair really is naturally that long and wavy. People who feel they have the right to just put their hands in her hair to feel it.

I don't have a picture of her, but Kenya Moore is almost her twin, same coplexion same hair, my cousin has a cleft chin though with is dominant on her fathers side of the family her kids have it as well



Kenya Moore is another because of her darker complexion, people will assume she has a weave or a perm. That is her natural hair as well.



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msmochachina
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2008 10:38    Post subject: Kenya Moore is beauty Reply with quote

Kenya Moore is beautiful. She looks exactly like one of my cousins whom is part Mexican and Native American. Complexion and all.
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Sat 08 Mar 2008 19:54    Post subject: Re: Kenya Moore is beauty Reply with quote

msmochachina wrote:
Kenya Moore is beautiful. She looks exactly like one of my cousins whom is part Mexican and Native American. Complexion and all.


She was a Ms America or USA (is it the same?)
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Jali
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PostPosted: Sun 16 Mar 2008 23:55    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well said! Excellent quotes!
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OTHER
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PostPosted: Mon 17 Mar 2008 18:18    Post subject: Re: Kenya Moore is beauty Reply with quote

gemini072 wrote:
msmochachina wrote:
Kenya Moore is beautiful. She looks exactly like one of my cousins whom is part Mexican and Native American. Complexion and all.


She was a Ms America or USA (is it the same?)


No. Miss America and Miss USA are two different things. Miss America (and I know this quite well because I am from Atlantic City) is a very old pageant which was held in my hometown for decades. Donald Trump, who ended up with ties to A.C., started his own Miss USA (at least that is my understanding). When Atlantic City lost the Miss America pageant, Trump made some kind of demeaning remark about it. Whatever, Hairio!
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gemini072
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PostPosted: Tue 18 Mar 2008 02:14    Post subject: Re: Kenya Moore is beauty Reply with quote

OTHER wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
msmochachina wrote:
Kenya Moore is beautiful. She looks exactly like one of my cousins whom is part Mexican and Native American. Complexion and all.


She was a Ms America or USA (is it the same?)


No. Miss America and Miss USA are two different things. Miss America (and I know this quite well because I am from Atlantic City) is a very old pageant which was held in my hometown for decades. Donald Trump, who ended up with ties to A.C., started his own Miss USA (at least that is my understanding). When Atlantic City lost the Miss America pageant, Trump made some kind of demeaning remark about it. Whatever, Hairio!



ok didn't know that
Kenya Moore former Miss USA 1993,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11CTKhq9Iko&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TAwXBH5pSv8&feature=related
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