Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1762 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Fri 14 Mar 2008 19:41 Post subject: Obama minister: U.S. started AIDS
Quote:
ELECTION 2008
Obama's minister said America
made AIDS to wipe out blacks
Candidate's spiritual mentor, role model
charged U.S. is 'No. 1 killer in the world'
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted: March 14, 2008
12:45 pm Eastern
In another controversial sermon pulled from the archives of Barack Obama's longtime pastor and mentor, Rev. Jeremiah Wright Jr. called America the "No. 1 killer in the world" and blamed the country for launching the AIDS virus to maintain affluence at the expense of the Third World.
The Chicago minister who married the Obamas and baptized their daughters said in a January 2006 sermon at his alma mater, Howard University, "America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. … We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns and the training of professional killers."
Speaking at the Washington, D.C., school's Andrew Rankin Memorial Chapel, Wright said, "We started the AIDS virus. … We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty."
The pastor reportedly said in a sermon just after 9/11, "The government lied about inventing the HIV virus as a means of genocide against people of color. The government lied."
In a 2003 sermon, reported yesterday, Wright encouraged blacks to damn America in God's name and blamed the U.S. for provoking the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks by dropping nuclear weapons on Japan in World War II and supporting Israel since 1947.
Wright has a formal role with Obama's campaign, noted the Politico's Ben Smith, as a member of its African American Religious Leadership Committee. Smith said the campaign couldn't immediately say whether the pastor would remain on the panel.
In the Howard University sermon, Wright, who retired one month ago from Trinity United Church of Christ, charged the country won't allow a black president.
"We've got more black men in prison than there are in college," he said. "Racism is alive and well. Racism is how this country was founded and how this country is still run. No black man will ever be considered for president, no matter how hard you run Jesse [Jackson] and no black woman can ever be considered for anything outside what she can give with her body."
Wright continued: "America is still the No. 1 killer in the world. … We are deeply involved in the importing of drugs, the exporting of guns, and the training of professional killers. … We bombed Cambodia, Iraq and Nicaragua, killing women and children while trying to get public opinion turned against Castro and Ghadhafi. … We put (Nelson) Mandela in prison and supported apartheid the whole 27 years he was there. We believe in white supremacy and black inferiority and believe it more than we believe in God."
Wright then turned to the Middle East.
"We supported Zionism shamelessly while ignoring the Palestinians and branding anybody who spoke out against it as being anti-Semitic. … We care nothing about human life if the end justifies the means. …"
In a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review interview yesterday, Obama, who's been a member of Trinity Church for 20 years, was asked to respond to Wright's 2003 sermon in which he said blacks should sing "God D--- America."
"I haven't seen the line," Obama said. "This is a pastor who is on the brink of retirement who in the past has made some controversial statements. I profoundly disagree with some of these statements."
The senator then was asked, "What about this particular statement?"
"Obviously, I disagree with that," he said. "Here is what happens when you just cherry-pick statements from a guy who had a 40-year career as a pastor. There are times when people say things that are just wrong. But I think it's important to judge me on what I've said in the past and what I believe."
In a statement to ABC News, which unearthed a video of the sermon, Obama's press spokesman Bill Burton said, "Sen. Obama has said repeatedly that personal attacks such as this have no place in this campaign or our politics, whether they're offered from a platform at a rally or the pulpit of a church. Sen. Obama does not think of the pastor of his church in political terms. Like a member of his family, there are things he says with which Sen. Obama deeply disagrees. But now that he is retired, that doesn't detract from Sen. Obama's affection for Rev. Wright or his appreciation for the good works he has done."
Mentor, role model
Obama addressed Wright's statements on Israel at a Feb. 24 meeting with Jewish leaders in Cleveland, describing the pastor as "an old uncle who sometimes will say things that I don't agree with."
In a January 2007 Chicago Tribune profile of Wright, however, Obama spoke of the pastor as a spiritual mentor and role model who helped keep his priorities straight and his moral compass calibrated.
"What I value most about Pastor Wright is not his day-to-day political advice," Obama said. "He's much more of a sounding board for me to make sure that I am speaking as truthfully about what I believe as possible and that I'm not losing myself in some of the hype and hoopla and stress that's involved in national politics."
The Tribune said Obama, then a community activist in Chicago, was first attracted to Wright's Trinity United Church of Christ in 1985 when it bore a "Free South Africa" sign on the lawn.
Obama was not a churchgoer at the time, the paper noted, but he found himself returning to the sanctuary. In his 1993 memoir "Dreams from My Father," Obama recounts that when he met Wright, the pastor warned that getting involved with Trinity might turn off other black clergy because of the church's radical reputation.
Before leaving for Harvard Law School in 1988, Obama responded to one of Wright's altar calls and declared a personal relationship with Jesus Christ. Later, the rising political star based his 2004 keynote speech to the Democratic National Convention on a Wright sermon called "Audacity to Hope," who also was the inspiration for Obama's second memoir, "The Audacity of Hope."
The Tribune profile said that while Wright and Obama do not often talk one-on-one often, the senator checks with his pastor before making any bold political moves, including in 2006, when considering a run for the White House.
Wright reportedly cautioned Obama not to let politics change him, but he also encouraged him to dive in, win or lose.
Wright presents a HUGE problem for the Obama camp. Me thinks this is the beginning of the end to Obama's campaign.
Joined: 19 Jan 2006 {Posts: 223 } Location: Southern California
Posted: Fri 14 Mar 2008 20:05 Post subject:
^^^^^^ You might be right on that one.
Quote:
"We started the AIDS virus. … We are only able to maintain our level of living by making sure that Third World people live in grinding poverty."
The remark above has really raised my crest (cockatoo speak )
Having worked in the biotech industry as a chemist for many years.. and having been involved in research pertaining to inhibitors of the AIDS virus; the above statement is nothing but a huge steaming pile of horsesh!t and patently false concerning the origins of the virus. Just another conspiracy theorist!
Joined: 03 Jun 2005 {Posts: 274 } Location: California
Posted: Fri 14 Mar 2008 20:23 Post subject:
That would be very sad if this minister causes a problem for Obama.
IMO, preachers (especially the woefully ignorant) need to stick to preaching about their religion and stay out of the political and medical field. Too much drama.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1762 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Fri 14 Mar 2008 20:34 Post subject:
femmedecouleur wrote:
IMO, preachers (especially the woefully ignorant) need to stick to preaching about their religion and stay out of the political and medical field. Too much drama.
I agree. Wright come across to me as a very bitter and hateful person. Not very becoming for a minister, hence the reason why I did not refer to him as "Rev".
Can you imagine if the tides were turned and someone like McCain had a minister who said things about "Blacks"???
The media would be having a field day. Sharpton and Jackson would be in their glory!!! They would be getting the media time that they have not received since the Obama phenomenon.
Once the mainstream media is forced to cover this, Obama will start to sink, I think.
Sometimes I wonder if Wright would like to see Obama fail in his bid for the Democratic nomination and the run for the presidency. Given his low opinion of white people it must burn him up that Obama is doing so well among many whites.
Wright IMO isn't really a Christian. He's basically a kind of liberation theologist with a very thin Christian veneer to his message. More subdued versions of his message can be heard in many Episcopalian churches and other mainline Protestant sects, which is why they are losing members to non-denominational, evangelical churches.
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Île-de-France
Posted: Sat 15 Mar 2008 12:59 Post subject:
To me Wright is only the flip side of the mega church minister who recently endorsed McCain who thinks that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the New Orleans gay pride parade and the Catholic Church is the great whore. Lots of people veneer their own radical opinions with a religious glaze. It will be interesting to see how well Obama can separate himself from Wright's statements.
To me Wright is only the flip side of the mega church minister who recently endorsed McCain who thinks that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the New Orleans gay pride parade and the Catholic Church is the great whore. Lots of people veneer their own radical opinions with a religious glaze. It will be interesting to see how well Obama can separate himself from Wright's statements.
But that's more in line with evangelical Protestantism. It is radical, but in its own way still Christian.
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Île-de-France
Posted: Sat 15 Mar 2008 16:38 Post subject:
Quote:
MisterLawyer wrote:
To me Wright is only the flip side of the mega church minister who recently endorsed McCain who thinks that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the New Orleans gay pride parade and the Catholic Church is the great whore. Lots of people veneer their own radical opinions with a religious glaze. It will be interesting to see how well Obama can separate himself from Wright's statements.
But that's more in line with evangelical Protestantism. It is radical, but in its own way still Christian.
You are correct, but I think both are contentions based on belifs that fly in the face of science. One supposes that God hats gay people so much he would destroy them and those who support them, along with innocent people who happend to be in the wrong place. Another supposes the US hates poor people and black people so much that it would create a deadly virus regardless of the consequesces to innocent victims. To me, both assertions are patently ridiculous. I think the problem for Obama is that there are more people in this country who would think the latter is ridiculous that the former.
Personally, I think there are several grains of truth in Wright's other highlighted statments regarding the exporting of weapons, the Israeli/Palestinian issue, the US support for aparthied and the disproportionate number of Blacks in prison. I think the problem is the extremes to which he takes the positions and the lack of balance in his perspective. Interestingly enough, it sounds like Wright and Ron Paul would agree in on may foreign policy issues.
Oh my gosh! Are we still pushing this U.S. created the AIDS virus to kill blacks GARBAGE!?!? Ugh and double ugh! If a minister is going to propagate this junk, then what hope is there for the average Joe and Jane to grasp reality?
As a Microbiologist, whose main area of interest is HIV/AIDS, I am CONFIDENT that the U.S. did not create this virus! GAH! This is SO aggravating.
Here is an article on the most logical hypothesis, one that has been thoroughly studied. Please notice that the date is 1999, so this is nothing new.
NIAID-Supported Scientists Discover Origin of HIV-1
Today scientists reported that they have discovered the origin of HIV-1, the virus responsible for the global AIDS pandemic. A subspecies of chimpanzees native to west equatorial Africa has been identified as the original source of the virus.
Beatrice H. Hahn, M.D., of the University of Alabama at Birmingham, a grantee of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases (NIAID), led the international team of investigators. They describe their findings in the February 4 issue of Nature. The journal moved the normal press embargo ahead to coincide with Dr. Hahn’s presentation of the study details on the opening night of the 6th Conference on Retroviruses and Opportunistic Infections in Chicago.
"This is an important finding with significant potential," notes Anthony S. Fauci, M.D., NIAID director. "We now have chimpanzee isolates of simian immunodeficiency virus [SIVcpz] that have been shown by careful molecular analysis to be closely related to HIV-1. Furthermore, this virus infects a primate species that is 98 percent related to humans. This may allow us – if done carefully and in collaboration with primatologists working to protect this endangered species – to study infected chimpanzees in the wild to find out why these animals don’t get sick, information that may help us better protect humans from developing AIDS."
Until now, HIV-1’s origin had been unclear. Although most scientists suspected that the virus descended from a primate species, only three chimpanzees infected with viruses related to HIV-1 had been documented, and one of these viruses correlated only weakly with HIV-1.
When Dr. Hahn and her collaborators recently identified a fourth chimpanzee infected with SIVcpz, they decided to use this opportunity to carefully examine all four viruses and the animals from which they were derived. With sophisticated genetic techniques, they analyzed the four SIVcpz isolates and compared them with various HIV-1 viruses taken from humans. They also determined the subspecies identity of the chimpanzees: three belonged to a subspecies native to west equatorial Africa, Pan troglodytes troglodytes. The fourth, the chimpanzee infected with a virus most unlike HIV-1, belonged to an east African subspecies known as Pan troglodytes schweinfurthii.
As it turns out, the three isolates from the Pan troglodytes troglodytes chimpanzees strongly resemble the different subgroups of HIV-1, namely groups M (responsible for the pandemic), N and O (both found only in west equatorial Africa). Their investigation also revealed that some of the viruses resulted from genetic recombination in the chimpanzees before they infected humans.
Their other significant find, Dr. Fauci notes, is that the natural habitat of these chimpanzees directly coincides with the pattern of the HIV-1 epidemic in this area of Africa. Putting all these pieces of the puzzle together, Dr. Hahn and her colleagues conclude that Pan troglodytes troglodytes is the natural reservoir of HIV-1 and has been the source of at least three independent occurrences of cross-species virus transmission events from chimpanzees to humans.
The authors believe that HIV-1 was introduced into the human population when hunters became exposed to infected blood. Furthermore, they speculate that humans might still be at risk for cross-species transmission because the bushmeat trade – the hunting and killing of chimpanzees and other endangered animals for human consumption – is still common practice in west equatorial Africa.
This new report suggests that preserving the wild chimpanzee populations will be crucial for further carefully designed studies to better understand how cross-species virus transmission occurs and how infected chimpanzees resist disease, studies that in turn may lead to new strategies for designing HIV drugs and vaccines.
References:
F Gao, E Bailes, DL Robertson, Y Chen, CM Rodenburg, SF Michael, LB Cummins, LO Arthur, M Peeters, GM Shaw, PM Sharp and BH Hahn. Origin of HIV-1 in the chimpanzee Pan troglodytes troglodytes. Nature 397, 436-41 (1999).
RA Weis and RW Wrangham. From Pan to pandemic. Nature 397, 385-6 (1999).
NIAID is a component of the National Institutes of Health (NIH). NIAID conducts and supports research to prevent, diagnose and treat illnesses such as HIV disease and other sexually transmitted diseases, tuberculosis, malaria, asthma and allergies. NIH is an agency of the U.S. Department of Health and Human Services.
Do you know that I still encounter college students who think you can get HIV from a mosquito and hear stories of HIV+ family members being shunned as if you can catch it through the air or from casual contact!? The last thing we need is for someone who is looked to for LEADERSHIP to propagate fear-mongering, boldfaced, completely unfounded, LIES. OK, I need to go take a few deep breaths now. (Serenity now!)
To me Wright is only the flip side of the mega church minister who recently endorsed McCain who thinks that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the New Orleans gay pride parade and the Catholic Church is the great whore. Lots of people veneer their own radical opinions with a religious glaze. It will be interesting to see how well Obama can separate himself from Wright's statements.
He has been doing this for over 20 years! Wright was on Hannity and Combs last year so for the Limbaugh media cabal to be suddenly surprised but still dedicate thier whole programmes (at least last week-3 hrs a day) to play Trinitys' CD repeatedly on the subject while ignoring the Hagee/McCain flap is interesting!
Joined: 03 Jun 2005 {Posts: 274 } Location: California
Posted: Sun 16 Mar 2008 05:31 Post subject:
DChapman wrote:
femmedecouleur wrote:
IMO, preachers (especially the woefully ignorant) need to stick to preaching about their religion and stay out of the political and medical field. Too much drama.
I agree. Wright come across to me as a very bitter and hateful person. Not very becoming for a minister, hence the reason why I did not refer to him as "Rev".
Can you imagine if the tides were turned and someone like McCain had a minister who said things about "Blacks"???
The media would be having a field day. Sharpton and Jackson would be in their glory!!! They would be getting the media time that they have not received since the Obama phenomenon.
Once the mainstream media is forced to cover this, Obama will start to sink, I think.
Goodness gracious, I am laughing at the very thought. Sharpton would probably get his hair done just for the occasion.
To me Wright is only the flip side of the mega church minister who recently endorsed McCain who thinks that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the New Orleans gay pride parade and the Catholic Church is the great whore. Lots of people veneer their own radical opinions with a religious glaze. It will be interesting to see how well Obama can separate himself from Wright's statements.
He has been doing this for over 20 years! Wright was on Hannity and Combs last year so for the Limbaugh media cabal to be suddenly surprised but still dedicate thier whole programmes (at least last week-3 hrs a day) to play Trinitys' CD repeatedly on the subject while ignoring the Hagee/McCain flap is interesting!
Not really...Hagee isn't as prominent a figure in McCain's life as Wright is in Obama's Wright's sermon inspired the tile of Obama's book, "The Audacity of Hope". Wright is/was Obama's spiritual advisor, and Obama is a member of Wright's church.
Obama has positioned himself or has been positioned as a candidate that transcends race. To be close to a preacher that is so race-obsessed and seemingly contemptuous of white people doesn't make you look good to an electorate that is still predominantly non-black.
Additionally, Hagee’s statements weren’t racial or political in content. They were religious. Stupid and clueless, but religious. Many Christians believe that 9/11 was pay back for U.S. society's deviation from God's plan for morally upright living. If they were racial in nature, there probably would have been as much of a media stir if not more.
MisterLawyer wrote:
To me Wright is only the flip side of the mega church minister who recently endorsed McCain who thinks that Hurricane Katrina was caused by the New Orleans gay pride parade and the Catholic Church is the great whore. Lots of people veneer their own radical opinions with a religious glaze. It will be interesting to see how well Obama can separate himself from Wright's statements.
But that's more in line with evangelical Protestantism. It is radical, but in its own way still Christian.
You are correct, but I think both are contentions based on belifs that fly in the face of science. One supposes that God hats gay people so much he would destroy them and those who support them, along with innocent people who happend to be in the wrong place. Another supposes the US hates poor people and black people so much that it would create a deadly virus regardless of the consequesces to innocent victims. To me, both assertions are patently ridiculous. I think the problem for Obama is that there are more people in this country who would think the latter is ridiculous that the former.
Personally, I think there are several grains of truth in Wright's other highlighted statments regarding the exporting of weapons, the Israeli/Palestinian issue, the US support for aparthied and the disproportionate number of Blacks in prison. I think the problem is the extremes to which he takes the positions and the lack of balance in his perspective. Interestingly enough, it sounds like Wright and Ron Paul would agree in on may foreign policy issues.
Quote:
For the sins of their inhabitants Sodom, Gomorrah, Admah, and Zeboim were destroyed by "brimstone and fire from the Lord out of heaven" (Genesis 19:24-25). In Christianity, their names have become synonymous with impenitent sin, and their fall with a proverbial manifestation of God's wrath (Jude 1:7).
[color=red]In Genesis 18, God informs Abraham that he plans to destroy the city of Sodom because of its gross immorality. Abraham pleads with God not to destroy Sodom, [color=orange]and God agrees that he would not destroy the city if there were 50 righteous people in it, then 45, then 30, then 20, or even ten righteous people. The Lord's two angels only found one righteous person living in Sodom, Abraham's nephew Lot. Consequently, God destroyed the city.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodom_and_Gomorrah
Quote:
The celebrations amid the deaths, disease and destruction of Katrina boggle the mind of some, including former homosexual James Hartline.
"The idea that human beings are continuing to party while hundreds of thousands of fellow citizens are starving, dying and suffering from a multitude of sicknesses brings into focus the real lack of judgment that these constant advocates of special gay rights demonstrate in a time of crisis," Hartline said. "They want marriage, adoption and special protections, due to their alleged 'vicitimizations at the hands of unfair laws,' and yet the Southern Decadence partiers are the best examples of those who are truly victimizing the most vulnerable of America's citizenry." http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=46216
Quote:
Some Christians have aimed God’s wrath of Katrina toward the gambling casinos of Mississippi or the cesspool of sin and sodomy raging in New Orleans. It’s been noted that Katrina destroyed New Orleans just days before the depraved homosexual festive appropriately called "Southern Decadence" was scheduled there. While a Holy God fiercely condemns and judges such sins, I don’t believe that was Katrina’s mission. Katrina did not merely destroy the casinos, or the hell-holes and homosexual parade of New Orleans. No. Katrina was a warning for an entire nation. Katrina bruised and battered the soul of America. http://www.av1611.org/katrina.html
Last edited by Melani23 on Mon 17 Mar 2008 14:00; edited 5 times in total
Sometimes I wonder if Wright would like to see Obama fail in his bid for the Democratic nomination and the run for the presidency. Given his low opinion of white people it must burn him up that Obama is doing so well among many whites.
Wright IMO isn't really a Christian. He's basically a kind of liberation theologist with a very thin Christian veneer to his message. More subdued versions of his message can be heard in many Episcopalian churches and other mainline Protestant sects, which is why they are losing members to non-denominational, evangelical churches.
Is the argument about the separation of church and state being used to suggest that Obama's religious views and affiliations are irrelevant or that they should be relevant? Of course, one big lie about him was that he was a Muslim. This issue will certainly clear that up, if nothing else.
I'm not sure that Obama is presenting himself as a raceless candidate, actually, or the candidate for racelessness. I think what distinguishes him from all other previous candidates is that his rhetoric is not directed toward any particular "race" or a set of racial problems. Iow, when he uses the pronoun "we", it seems that he is referring to Americans.
Obama has also immediately distanced himself from those supporters who are or are potentially polarizing, such as Farrahkhan and now Wright. Wright, however, sounds like many other conspiracy theorists that one can easily hear on NPR.
Reason, logic and stupidity all run in the same vein but do we know how to tell the difference?
Based on the scientific method of inquiry, trend analysis or similar construct, what variables have changed since Robert Byrd was elected by his constituents? Did people raise the same concerns back then?
When Lincoln signed to Bill to free the slaves, what were his true beliefs?
Freedom for all citizens or freedom from some?
Why didn't white Baptists leave their churches if they found out their pastor wasn't right, as it were?
Isn't it also true that, hypocrisy notwithstanding, if such unpopular rhetoric is enough to disqualify a candidate who willingly listens, then a Native American will never have a chance to become President?
Seems like an odd connection between "freedom of speech" and "guilt by association." I.e., candidates are not allowed to listen to someone exercise his or her right to peacefully express an opinion (which no one thus far has suggested is violent).
The previous references to Byrd could include tens of overtly racist/white supremacist politicians. The entire Congress could be condemned.
Otoh, perhaps there is some value in having offensive ideas come to light so that they can be discussed and debunked. The alternative is that these ideas exist in a permanent sub-narrative.
Isn't it also true that, hypocrisy notwithstanding, if such unpopular rhetoric is enough to disqualify a candidate who willingly listens, then a Native American will never have a chance to become President?
Seems like an odd connection between "freedom of speech" and "guilt by association." I.e., candidates are not allowed to listen to someone exercise his or her right to peacefully express an opinion (which no one thus far has suggested is violent).
The previous references to Byrd could include tens of overtly racist/white supremacist politicians. The entire Congress could be condemned.
Otoh, perhaps there is some value in having offensive ideas come to light so that they can be discussed and debunked. The alternative is that these ideas exist in a permanent sub-narrative.
This isn't soemthing new. A few presidential candidates have had people on their campaign staff with racialist or "extreme" views and were guilty by association. They wisely decided to let these people go. I believe Steven Forbes had someone on his staff who was into Christian Identity or white nationalism or something. His views were made public after he gave a talk somewhere and he was let go afterwards.
And there was Pat Buchanan and Ezola Foster. Now she had some opinions.
These examples aren't really the same thing as Obama's situation because Wright was his spiritual advisor before this story broke and Wright's views are pretty public. He been on t.v. in my area for about 10 years.
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Are we still pushing this U.S. created the AIDS virus to kill blacks GARBAGE!?!? Ugh and double ugh! If a minister is going to propagate this junk, then what hope is there for the average Joe and Jane to grasp reality?
The last thing we need is for someone who is looked to for LEADERSHIP to propagate fear-mongering, boldfaced, completely unfounded, LIES. OK, I need to go take a few deep breaths now. (Serenity now!) 
