The Study of Racialism

Jali · New User Joined: 16 Jun 2007 {Posts: 41 }

I was wondering about the many different ways people identify and claim ethnicity. When a culture changes or os lost when they leave their mother country, shoud they be called something else? For example is it fair to say that Indo-Carribeans aren't really Indians because they have changed religion, language and some foods. Others might seem them as Indians but others may not. Or The Ulster-Irish that was the first wave of Irish to the United States, but didn't welcome the Irish immigrants of 1847, after they had been here a while. Even changed their name to make a distinction. African Americans versus continnental Africans, which I think are in a unique situation like the Jews in identity. I know most agree here about the right to self identify, at the same time we may not agree with that identity why? I would like some thought on Diasporan cultures.

punjabtrini · Mentor Joined: 04 Sep 2007 {Posts: 253 } Location: USA

Jali,

People can self-identify but that is not the problem as you state
From a Trini perspective, if I go to India, I will be a foreigner despite whatever Indian roots I may have vis a vis the Indian landscape with the many languages, customs and identities!
One cannot cease from being part of their roots but which roots!

From a personal view, here are some points that I have considered:
1. I cannot speak Hindu, Urdu, Punjabi, etc so I cannot communicate and therfore I will be considered an outsider, a foreigner!

2. My way of speech is extraneous to the Indian way (India)

3. The Indian food in T&T is not really Indian though at its roots are very Indian!

4. Celebration likes Holi, Divali, Hussay, (Hussein), Eid and others are not celebrated like in India so we will be considered still foreigners. As a Trini, we celebrated both Hindu, Muslim and I went to a Christian school!
Not the Presbyterians! Not far behind is how come you celebrating a Muslim event?

5. Indo-Trinis also cook food differently from the Indian way! I also find Indian food too sweet! We make parata with chicken and beef and goat and agouti while Indians tend to make it vegetarian so we are way off in that area!

6. In T&T, I could hang out with anyone I choose as long as they decent!
I find Indians (india) still adhere to jati and varna so I am apprehensive of associating with them but still I have made some good friends.

All this seems superficial, but it all adds up. Perhaps if more of us spoke either Hindu or Urdu, that would be a step up to "acceptance". I do not know but I am Trini..Another thing is Trini and whining (shaking yuh waist) which I am sure we will be seen as heathen since Richard Gere kissed Shetty and they were going to put him up on charges for being indecent! What would they do with Indo-Trinis, at least?

Jali · New User Joined: 16 Jun 2007 {Posts: 41 }

Thank you for you input. Perhaps I didn't state it correctly. What I mean't about the self identity, since ther are diffrences even though you share origins from India. Do you think Indo-Trini worka as a identifier or it is better to use Trini. Or does it matter?

I'm learning a lot about Indo Carribean culture from this site. In California many come from Fiji. Outsiders look at the factt it seems you have sustained your culture rather than it changing.

Since I'm African American, we have more distantnce and change that you would for example. The African identity was never what people assume it to be. When that identity was forged, many that forged it were very Anglo in culture. It never started as being associated wth African customs like people think. It was made as a New World identity regardless of culture. For example many that started African organizations and churches were Quakers and Christians. They were already diffrent than those directly from the continent at that time. Many miss that point, or simply don't know it.

Would Indo-Trini be closer to Guyanese for example in culture?

gemini072 · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2942 }

punjabtrini · Mentor Joined: 04 Sep 2007 {Posts: 253 } Location: USA

Jali stated

Jali · New User Joined: 16 Jun 2007 {Posts: 41 }

I'm sorry I havent responded to my own post, but my computer has been down. Now I'm back.

When asking about people of the diasporas, which there are many. I know your nationanlity is Trini and you have a Trini identity. However ther are times a point of refernce must be made, hence the term Indo-Trini. You are all creoles in Trini and share the same culture, you have to describe your history diffrently because there are diffrent histories from each other.

I agree with the fact that you would be looked at a a foreigner in India. That is the same with African Americans. What many people may not understand, is that we didn't identify as African so those on the continent would acceptance, it was a chosen and consicous decision to embrace the term African, knowing that those on the continent identified differently. In India they called themselves Indian on the continent. Not so in Africa. Those that began claiming African identity were authors of the 17th century and English speakers. Some born in Africa and some not, but all claiming the same identity. It is like the sari. I would imagine, you drop somethings to fit in, or be accepted, another generation says who cares what you think, and picks it back up. If I went o Africa I would be looked at as a stranger, I know that. My African identity isn't based upon that.

I met a wman last week that stated she was an American born- African, and her parents were from Nigeria. She had a Nigerian accent, and I asked her about African American culture. She said it didn't make sense to Nigerians, Those on the continent focus on where they are from and those in the diaspora focus on the continent. She said the dances an rituals seemd to be a mixture of diffrent African groups which didn't make sense, but she said that is ok. I stated that is because we from many African groups. I could never be Ibo or Nigerian. When African come from the continent, they have Nigerain organizations, Ethiopian, Ghananian etc. We never had that so we used African. Which has a history away from the continent. An African can speak English, French, etc.. and still be African . It is similiar to the usage for Jewish people. Just like there are mnmany different types of Creoles.

I was wondering was the language and culture in genral similar on how close? It is interesting that some gropus have a close developing stucture in diffrent places.