Posted: Fri 09 May 2008 04:41 Post subject: A Sensitive Question...
I've noticed that many people (no one here) but in real life or on other sites claim to be mixed with this and that. Or they claim to be "light-skinned" with "good hair". When I see photos of these individuals, nothing could be further from the truth. It is obvious, IMO, that many people lie about being mixed...claiming that they are either biracial or multiracial when in fact no one in their family has mixed for generations.
I don't know if people who do this are attempting to shore up their self-esteem and I don't wish to sound judgemental, but I've heard many people say: "I'm mixed with Cherokee/Puerto Rican/Russian/Chinese", etc. Then they follow up with comments about their so-called light skin and good hair. Once more, this is not in reference to anyone at all on this forum because I respect everyone's personal identity. I'm simply wondering if anyone here has noticed this too? It seems to be politically incorrect to wonder whether some people lie about these things. I've known people who do this and it bothers me on occasion, because those are often the same types who will turn around and accuse a person who actually IS mixed of "self-hate" or "denial".
I apologize in advance if my question is misinterpreted in some way as being offensive. This is not my intent. So does anyone know people who lie about this? Do you know their family personally? And if so, how does it make you feel? Do these people then attempt to invalidate/dismiss your own (true) identity as a person of mixed heritage?
Well, I get often the, "My sister has hair like you" alot, but when I meet them - they don't.
I even told this (AA) man last week, that I was bi-racial and he said:"We all are". LOL! My response was, I read genetics journals now [be prepared to back up your claim] ...the subject was changed...
But I do know what you mean, in that some AAs tend to over-estimate their own admixture or downplay 'yours' in an attempt to one drop Creole/bi-racial/MGM people....
Interesting question! I think light skin and good here is relative. For example, I think it possible to look light skin without looking mixed. What I mean is I think it possible to be light skin but still be eyeballed black and I am not talking about people who can be eyeballed as mixed. I have heard many people who are not visibly mixed discussing their mixed heritage and I am fine about that. It is not always possible to tell whether someone has mixed ancestry. I know my own mixed ancestry is more visble than some of my family members. For example, Tyson Beckford has mixed ancestry and he would be eyeballed as black.
Well, Melani, I applaud you for being able to hold your own. The fact is that we AREN'T all biracial. Many people have mixed all over the world and I personally don't believe in racial "purity", but that gentleman's statement is a way of invalidating your very real heritage/identity. Some people cannot and will not accept that identity is tied to experience, shaped by culture, and it is very personal.
I've heard it all, too: that I supposedly look like some relative of theirs (and when I meet the person it isn't true), or they feel the need to tell me out of the blue that they had a fictional Cherokee/white grandmother who had "long straight flowing hair". My ex's father often claimed that his father was a white man...this was completely false. He himself was a very dark-skinned individual with thick features and the picture of his father was that of a man who was slightly lighter but still clearly AA. He also claimed that his wife (my ex's mother) had a white grandmother. I've seen pictures of that whole family on both sides and no one in their immediate family was white. The younger generation had a few biracial children, but besides that, everyone in the family looked black and identified as black. They hate white people too and they dislike people who identify as biracial...it was weird to me that they would falsely claim all this white ancestry that they obviously didn't have.
Hi, Beauty...I agree that it is not always possible to tell whether somebody has mixed ancestry. However, there's more to it than simply looking at people. The fact is that many people make false claims about being mixed. Ty Beckford is very dark, but it isn't that difficult to believe that he could have some Chinese ancestry because Jamaica is a diverse population. You're Jamaican yourself, correct?
Some people assume that lighter-skinned biracials/multiracials don't acknowledge the existence of dark-skinned mixed people. I do...but then, I'm familiar with different phenotypes and mixtures, like most folks here. The problem is that too often I've noticed that people will invent a mixed background to seem more unique or attractive. To discuss actual mixed heritage is one thing, but to lie about it is another.
I understand what you are talking about. But I’ve learned that it's all relative and depends on the community that a person is surrounded by. I dated this guy who referred to himself as light skinned and to me he was medium caramel brown color. It used to irritate me but later I realized that from his perspective he was; as all of his family was very dark skinned and they always referred to him as light. So the people you've encountered may be considered light and have good hair compared to others in their families.
At this same time, I am mulatto and get told I look like any number of different nationalities. I have White people say I'm dark, Black people say I’m light, bright damn near white and Hispanic people speaking to me in Spanish. How can one person have so many different appearances? It's all in the eye of the beholder. I personally think I look mixed but you may think I look like something different.
In addition, unless you have seen the people's family members it's really hard to determine whether or not they have immediate mixture in their family. As I said I am mixed and I have a son who is ¾ black and ¼ white. I’m sure most people are surprised to find out he has a white Grandmother, as he does not look he has any mixture to most people. Here are some pictures below.
pianoplayer111, I have never encountered anybody who has claimed mixed ancestry when it is clearly untrue. I wonder if this an American thing? I have never encountered this here in the UK or in Jamaica. I agree, Jamaica is a diverse place but many people do not realise that. This means a lot of people would have a hard time with believing someone like Tyson Beckford has mixed ancestry. I have experienced baffled responses when I tell people my entire family is Jamaican.
Lolly...you're beautiful and your little boy is adorable!
You definitely are visibly mixed, IMO. Your son is too. I suppose you're right...it depends on the community and it is all relative.
However, most of the time the people who make these bizarre claims seem to not remember that I have in fact seen their families. It is true that admixtures aren't always apparent but I think it is safe to say that most of the time one can tell. A person doesn't have to look "white" or have a certain hair type but there are at least some physical characteristics that suggest recent mixture. Your son doesn't look like you in my opinion, not only because of his deep bronze complexion, but his facial features as well. It still doesn't surprise me to hear that a child who looks like him could have a white grandparent (your mother, I suppose?) There are children who look like him in my family who also have white grandparents. If people can look at him and not see any mixture at all, you have to wonder about that.
What I'm referring to are people who not only look nothing like you or your son, but also have no immediate non-black ancestry. They often claim an Indian or white grandmother with "long straight hair" when there's no truth to this. This is not to say that somewhere down the line there might not have been some admixture...but I would say that in most of these cases it is distant. Or in all actuality, they're simply inventing fiction because they don't know their real family history.
I can assure you that this is not strictly an American habit. The only difference is that most Afro-Caribbean people tend to not talk about it as much...even in class-conscious, color-conscious Jamaica. On occasion I've met Caribbean folks who loved to do that. The Jamaican side of my family has experienced the baffled responses you mention because they're all blue-eyed, blonde, lily-white people. They identify as black despite overwhelmingly European ancestry and phenotypes.
People in America probably wouldn't believe that Ty Beckford could have mixed ancestry because they're only noticing his skin and mostly African features. And I agree, most people outside of Jamaica (and indeed sometimes within) are unaware of how diverse it is. They assume that because the majority of Jamaica's population is of African descent, the island is made up of nothing but black people. And tourism definitely plays a role in this. Most people in Jamaica refer to me as a white woman when I'm there...only a few would say that I look mixed. There are people who tell tall tales about their lineage, but there must be a reason behind this. You've never encountered anyone who does this but trust me...it happens more than you realize.
I'm a cynical, skeptical person anyway so I tend to not always believe what I hear. I might listen politely but I still evaluate whatever information comes my way.
Lolly...you're beautiful and your little boy is adorable!
You definitely are visibly mixed, IMO. Your son is too. I suppose you're right...it depends on the community and it is all relative.
However, most of the time the people who make these bizarre claims seem to not remember that I have in fact seen their families. It is true that admixtures aren't always apparent but I think it is safe to say that most of the time one can tell. A person doesn't have to look "white" or have a certain hair type but there are at least some physical characteristics that suggest recent mixture. Your son doesn't look like you in my opinion, not only because of his deep bronze complexion, but his facial features as well. It still doesn't surprise me to hear that a child who looks like him could have a white grandparent (your mother, I suppose?) There are children who look like him in my family who also have white grandparents. If people can look at him and not see any mixture at all, you have to wonder about that.
What I'm referring to are people who not only look nothing like you or your son, but also have no immediate non-black ancestry. They often claim an Indian or white grandmother with "long straight hair" when there's no truth to this. This is not to say that somewhere down the line there might not have been some admixture...but I would say that in most of these cases it is distant. Or in all actuality, they're simply inventing fiction because they don't know their real family history.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 425 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Fri 09 May 2008 19:37 Post subject: Re: A Sensitive Question...
pianoplayer111 wrote:
It is obvious, IMO, that many people lie about being mixed...claiming that they are either biracial or multiracial when in fact no one in their family has mixed for generations.
I don't know if people who do this are attempting to shore up their self-esteem and I don't wish to sound judgemental, but I've heard many people say: "I'm mixed with Cherokee/Puerto Rican/Russian/Chinese", etc.
Funny - I notice this all the time. Ya know, I don't think that anyone should be offended at what you say. As a mulatto, I must say that when I see this, I feel the same way that someone who has earned the Medal of Honor might feel when they see a poser claiming to have earned it. People might find THIS offensive, but when people starting explaining their mix, I normally give them four ethnicities - anything claimed beyond that, and I might raise the BS flag.
Thank you for not being upset. I hope I didn't offend you.
Your son is cute as a button. He is truly an adorable boy.
Well, you do have a point. I would say that your son has some South Asian/Indian ancestry...I'm basing this on past photos I've seen of him as well as the ones of his cousins. Is his mother Indian or partially Indian? That is most likely what people assumed when he was an infant. You say that people asked you about his mother's background when he was a baby. He does look a bit different now that he is older but I wouldn't say that it is a shockingly different change. He simply resembles you a little bit more. Back then, he was slightly lighter (most black babies start out this way) and his hair was curly. He is deep chocolate now and he is gorgeous. His cousins appear to be either biracial or South Asian/Indian. If I were to see him in person, I would most likely see him as black but like I said...I don't rule out mixture based on skin color. I do it based on knowing a person's family or being somewhat familiar with them.
He is the spitting image of you now, except for his eyes and mouth.
You're correct. It is not my intention to offend anyone but I do feel like this is something that happens often. I've observed it all my life. I'm not passing judgement but I would like to understand why people would lie about this.
-Is it because they perceive truly biracial/multiracial people as having certain advantages and privileges that they do not?
-Is it because being mixed has always been viewed as "unique" or "exotic"? And because historically, African features and lineage were ridiculed?
-Is it an issue of vanity in certain women who covet non-black features because no one appreciated their beauty? Is it about self-esteem?
-Or is it simply a matter of not knowing the whole truth and history of one's family, due to a lack of research and no substantial records? I've always wondered about this.
There are many "wannabe's" who claim every ethnicity they can think of. I have no problem with people being proud of who they are (whether multiracial or monoracial) , but I'm curious about people who lie about it and it is obvious that they're lying.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 425 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Fri 09 May 2008 20:06 Post subject:
Ya know, another thing I've noticed is that not only do posers claim to possess a mix with a higher-than-usual number of ethnicities, but they also seemed to find the most rarest ethnicities in the US to claim to be mixed with - things like Libyan, Uraguayan, Norweigan, Cambodian, Albanian, etc - things like this also cause me to raise the BS flag as well. It's amazing how these "rare" ethnicities only mix with AA's in the US, and no one else - and as a result of this mix, they're only capable of having girls.
Last edited by Richard Miller on Fri 09 May 2008 20:53; edited 2 times in total
Thank you for not being upset. I hope I didn't offend you.
Your son is cute as a button. He is truly an adorable boy.
Well, you do have a point. I would say that your son has some South Asian/Indian ancestry...I'm basing this on past photos I've seen of him as well as the ones of his cousins. Is his mother Indian or partially Indian? That is most likely what people assumed when he was an infant. You say that people asked you about his mother's background when he was a baby. He does look a bit different now that he is older but I wouldn't say that it is a shockingly different change. He simply resembles you a little bit more. Back then, he was slightly lighter (most black babies start out this way) and his hair was curly. He is deep chocolate now and he is gorgeous. His cousins appear to be either biracial or South Asian/Indian. If I were to see him in person, I would most likely see him as black but like I said...I don't rule out mixture based on skin color. I do it based on knowing a person's family or being somewhat familiar with them.
He is the spitting image of you now, except for his eyes and mouth.
I'm not offended at all. His mother (and her brothers) are partly Indian - the brothers both look "more coolie" as you jamaicans would say than her. He has her eyes...actually his mother, her brothers and her brother's kids have the exact same eyes and I can tell you it is a little eerie when they all look at you at once. He has darkened up as he has aged - he's darker than her but lighter than me. When he is with the other side of the family people who do not know their background sometimes "look at him funny" he says.
Last edited by anonymouse on Fri 09 May 2008 21:37; edited 1 time in total
Posted: Fri 09 May 2008 21:29 Post subject: Re: A Sensitive Question...
pianoplayer111 wrote:
I've noticed that many people (no one here) but in real life or on other sites claim to be mixed with this and that. When I see photos of these individuals, nothing could be further from the truth.
Are you able to detect a persons ancestry by looking at them? How do you know that they're lying?
Quote:
It is obvious, IMO, that many people lie about being mixed...claiming that they are either biracial or multiracial when in fact no one in their family has mixed for generations.
Whats the generational cut-off point?
edited to say: I find these statements coming from European-phenotype ("white-looking") people who identify as mixed race, to be very ironic, because one would think they were aware that physical appearances often don't reflect a persons varied ancestry.
-Is it because they perceive truly biracial/multiracial people as having certain advantages and privileges that they do not?
-Is it because being mixed has always been viewed as "unique" or "exotic"? And because historically, African features and lineage were ridiculed?
-Is it an issue of vanity in certain women who covet non-black features because no one appreciated their beauty? Is it about self-esteem?
Those I have encountered contain a little of all three, and it is not just females it is males too. It is like Toni Morrison's The Bluest Eye, I am sure everyone that believes this about themselves is not as deluded as her but some might come close.
Never reaffirming a child's intelligence, beauty, creativity, individuality, and spirituality, causes severe damage that follows them into adulthood. I believe most of the people that see themselves as biracial or MGM, without having any phenotype indicators, are a result of that.
Posted: Fri 09 May 2008 23:03 Post subject: Re: A Sensitive Question...
Richard Miller wrote:
Pianoplayer, I suspect that you knew as well as I did that the "How do you know they're lying" commentary would eventually come.
Anyhow, disregard them and let's keep talking!
Why?? Is it too logical of a question, and therefore better disregarded?
The assumption of commenters in thread, is that darkskinned african phenotype people, can't possibly have mixed ancestry, and therefore must be lying and/or self-hating if they claim so.
There are obvious mis-steps in the logic of that reasoning, and I apologize for pointing them out.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 425 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Fri 09 May 2008 23:26 Post subject:
You know, on second thought, since we should have known that the "challenge" would eventually come, we should be prepared for it.
I'll bite.
First, I don't go by phenotype. What wasn't mentioned is that is the fact that there are legit multiracial people who lie too, only they lie about what they're mixed with - and I'll call their bluff if they mention "too many," or those ethnicities that are "rare" in this country, like the ones I mention above (among others).
Next, I'm not going to use figures like "Nine times out of ten" or "99.99% of the time," because I done this many times, and have never been wrong. Maybe if I keep doing it, eventually, I will be, but to this date, I haven't been.
There are two methods that I've used, and if one doesn't get them, the other one will:
1. Most people have more than one circle of friends. For example, co-workers, and people you hang with at home. Usually, these posers have a different lie for each circle of friends. I can easily find subtle ways to bring it up among their different friends to find each story.
2. I've talked to their immediately family - parents, siblings, whatever. Again, I can find subtle ways to bring it up. For example:
Suspect's relative: "Man, I had a bad day at work today. I was ready beat my boss' a..."
Me: "Hey, relax. Must be that Polynesian blood!"
Suspect's relative: "What? What Polynesian blood? I don't have any Polynesians in my family, where'd you get that from?"
Me: "So, how about them Spurs? I think Tim Duncan is awesome!"
Phil...allow me to reiterate the part where I said that one does NOT have to be of European phenotype to be of mixed ancestry. It seems you overlooked this. What I'm saying here is that mixture is somehow apparent in a person's physical appearance most of the time. Skin color is significant, but it is not an absolute in determining a person's racial makeup. There are many people of all hues who are racially mixed. No one is denying or disputing that. Other features should be taken into account and yes, observing a person's family members (both sides) is a fairly good indicator too.
Anonymouse's example of his son was brilliant. His son is very dark and to many people would probably be indistinguishable from most phenotypically "black" children. The very first time I saw a picture of that little boy as an infant I could detect some racial admixture...simply by eyeballing. His dark chocolate complexion didn't blind me to that. He looks like my stepfather did as a child...and yes, my Jamaican stepfather has distant Indian ancestry as well as Irish, and he can prove it.
You're still missing the point. Lots of people are mixed somehow, this is true. But there are also many people who claim to be mixed when they are not...simply because they believe that it is "hip" or it makes them more acceptable somehow. I know I'm not the only one who has observed this. Now in Beauty's case, she has never encountered that but she doesn't live in America so her perspective might be different. And like Richard said, phenotype is not always an accurate indicator but it sure is helpful most of the time.
You're the only one here saying that people in this thread assume that "dark-skinned African phenotype people can't possibly have mixed ancestry". I certainly never said that at all...you're taking it personally and that makes me wonder. I'm not one to refer to others as "self-hating" so that is another erroneous statement on your part. And did I not state that I was drawing on personal experiences/encounters in REAL LIFE? I also asked other people here if they had ever noticed that. At no time have I ever accused anyone on this forum of lying about their ancestry or who they are. Nor have I criticized anyone's self-identity, no matter what their phenotype. There are no missteps in my logic...naturally people become defensive when called on their actions. The fact is that many people DO lie about this, full stop.
When a person suddenly starts spouting off nonsense about their "good hair" and 6, 000 fictional ethnicities in my presence without provocation (this has happened more than once) my BS detector goes off. I'm extremely proud of my background and I'm all for other people being the same but there's no need to announce it constantly or worse, to LIE about it. [/b]
'
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in
His cousins appear to be either biracial or South Asian/Indian. If I were to see him in person, I would most likely see him as black but like I said...I don't rule out mixture based on skin color. I do it based on knowing a person's family or being somewhat familiar with them.