The Study of Racialism Discussion of U.S. Racialism Please read The Rules before posting.    FAQ   Search     Register     Log in  ' Latino Ethnicity and Race Goto page 1, 2, 3  Next          The Study of Racialism Forum Index -> Ethnicity in America Author Message Powell Guru Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2462 } Posted: Mon 16 Jun 2008 21:26    Post subject: Latinos onlyhuman77 wrote: Something I found very interesting, once when dating a multiracial female who was West Indian (Father-Indian/West Indian, Mother-German) I received so much attitude from African American females it was rediculous. But when I was dating a Spanish female (Mexican/Puerto Rican) who dressed way too provacative for my taste, not a peep from the peanut gallery. So the Multiracial sister with African ancestry gets no love but the Latina with Eva Longoria proportions gets props on her sleezy yet fashion forward attire . I just didn't get it. But Latinos are also mixed. Americans are socialized to talk about them as though they were a separate "race." Back to top onlyhuman77 Experienced User Joined: 15 Apr 2008 {Posts: 187 } Location: Harlem, NYC Posted: Tue 17 Jun 2008 01:47    Post subject: Re: Latinos Powell wrote: onlyhuman77 wrote: Something I found very interesting, once when dating a multiracial female who was West Indian (Father-Indian/West Indian, Mother-German) I received so much attitude from African American females it was rediculous. But when I was dating a Spanish female (Mexican/Puerto Rican) who dressed way too provacative for my taste, not a peep from the peanut gallery. So the Multiracial sister with African ancestry gets no love but the Latina with Eva Longoria proportions gets props on her sleezy yet fashion forward attire . I just didn't get it. But Latinos are also mixed. Americans are socialized to talk about them as though they were a separate "race." I was unaware that a dark complexioned Geechee (African American) and a green eyed Spanish Latina (Mexican/Puerto Rican) could be of the same race, unless the reference is to the human race??? Back to top mixedmom Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 782 } Posted: Tue 17 Jun 2008 02:52    Post subject: Re: Latinos onlyhuman77 wrote: I was unaware that a dark complexioned Geechee (African American) and a green eyed Spanish Latina (Mexican/Puerto Rican) could be of the same race, unless the reference is to the human race??? Do you honestly doubt that many Latinos are mixed? Take a look at Alex Rodriquez (Latino) and Derek Jeter (white mother/ black father) Would the dark complexioned Geechee have a similar "race" as Sammy Sosa? Sosa is also Latino, just as much as the green-eyed Mestiza from Mexico. Back to top onlyhuman77 Experienced User Joined: 15 Apr 2008 {Posts: 187 } Location: Harlem, NYC Posted: Tue 17 Jun 2008 04:39    Post subject: Re: Latinos mixedmom wrote: onlyhuman77 wrote: I was unaware that a dark complexioned Geechee (African American) and a green eyed Spanish Latina (Mexican/Puerto Rican) could be of the same race, unless the reference is to the human race??? Do you honestly doubt that many Latinos are mixed? Take a look at Alex Rodriquez (Latino) and Derek Jeter (white mother/ black father) Would the dark complexioned Geechee have a similar "race" as Sammy Sosa? Sosa is also Latino, just as much as the green-eyed Mestiza from Mexico. It is apparent Latinos have admixture, I am just seeing that mixture within a culture that is uniquely different from my own. I am Geechee (African American) first, then American second. Latinos are Culture first and race second if they even accept being a race. I might have a very distant relative that may be Caucasian, does that mean I am Caucasian or mixed because my Ancestry by DNA results show 4% Caucasian? In my view that means I am 96% African and I love having that much African in my ancestry. If a Dominican born and raised in the U.S. were to take the same test and get the same results how would he define himself? Maybe Mixed, Mestizo, Latino (since that is his parent's heritage) Caucasian, Indian, but I am doubting African or African American although he has as much right to the prestigious label as me since he was raised here. But for him it is not so amazing a title, that is part of what separates us. He sees himself culture first as part of this mass of people with a language, religion, food amongst other things that unify them. Many have a fluid racial admixture which is very ambiguous in phenotype, but his is not. His phenotype is as African as me. But he is Dominican so he is different and I am Geeche (African American) and I am different. Is his view better than mine or mine better than his? NO I was raised to see myself as African and take pride in being her child. And I see no reason to force people to join my race when they are just as content under a different social construct that supplies them just as much pride and happiness. Back to top BlackHaze Experienced User Joined: 29 Dec 2004 {Posts: 114 } Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 07:28    Post subject: Most latinos in the U.S. identify with their nationality and do not share a common bond with first generation bi-racial americans or tri-racial groups that have been here for centuries. I have a friend who's puerto rican and according to him, latin countries in the carribean don't really use racial or ethnic terms to describe people. The terms that they use only describe someone's physical appearance. If this is true, you probably won't find a lot of latinos who identify themselves as mulatto or mixed race. Nationality usually comes first. This is what I've been told. That might explain why most Americans dont view them as mixed. Its also due to the fact that most latinos are mexican, and mexicans are big supporters of the ODR. Look up the spanish soap opera El Alma no Tiene Color , it looks like mexican version of Imitation of Life. http://telenovela-world.com/archives/show.php?N=almanotienecolorel1997 Back to top onlyhuman77 Experienced User Joined: 15 Apr 2008 {Posts: 187 } Location: Harlem, NYC Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 08:06    Post subject: BlackHaze wrote: Its also due to the fact that most latinos are mexican, and mexicans are big supporters of the ODR. Look up the spanish soap opera El Alma no Tiene Color , it looks like mexican version of Imitation of Life. http://telenovela-world.com/archives/show.php?N=almanotienecolorel1997 I live in NYC a great bulk of Latinos are Puerto Rican, Dominican, Cuban (among many other nationalities) and last time I checked they were not supporters at all of One Drop Rule unless you are referring to the reverse One Drop Rule?? Back to top BlackHaze Experienced User Joined: 29 Dec 2004 {Posts: 114 } Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 09:08    Post subject: The bulk of latinos in New York are carribean but nationally most latinos are Mexican or Chicano. Back to top onlyhuman77 Experienced User Joined: 15 Apr 2008 {Posts: 187 } Location: Harlem, NYC Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 09:28    Post subject: BlackHaze wrote: The bulk of latinos in New York are carribean but nationally most latinos are Mexican or Chicano. I don't understand how Mexicans who are perhaps the Latin population with the least amount of SSA admixture could have any usage of the One Drop Rule, unless they are replacing SSA admixture with Native American admixture? Back to top BlackHaze Experienced User Joined: 29 Dec 2004 {Posts: 114 } Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 10:07    Post subject: onlyhuman77 wrote: BlackHaze wrote: The bulk of latinos in New York are carribean but nationally most latinos are Mexican or Chicano. I don't understand how Mexicans who are perhaps the Latin population with the least amount of SSA admixture could have any usage of the One Drop Rule, unless they are replacing SSA admixture with Native American admixture? I'm not saying that Mexicans use the ODR on themselves. Many of them use it against people who do have SSA admixture. A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. Negrophobia is a big part of hispanic culture and in the case of Mexicans, their hatred is not just directed towards people who are fully black, it's also directed towards people who are mixed. My other point is that Americans are conditioned to see latinos as a separate race because they act as separate races. In other words, Dominicans & Puerto Ricans see themselves as being separate from from people who are part African American and part somethng else. Thats the best I can explain it... Back to top MisterLawyer Moderator Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Île-de-France Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 11:19    Post subject: Quote: Many of them use it against people who do have SSA admixture. A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. Negrophobia is a big part of hispanic culture and in the case of Mexicans, their hatred is not just directed towards people who are fully black, it's also directed towards people who are mixed. I request a source or a clarification of this statement. WHat exactly do you mean by your assertion that Mexicans use the one drop rule against "people with SSA admixutre?" Many mexicans "do have SSA admixture." What do you mean by "hispanic culture?" Are you saying that "racists chicano gangs" are somehow more representitive of "hispanic culture?" than the Aryan Brotherhood is representitive of U.S. WASP culture or Chicago street gangs are representitive of African American culture? What do you mean by your assertion that Mexicans hate "black" and "biracial" people? That hispanics hate "black" and "biracial" people? Please keep in mind rules 3.2 and 3.3, specifically looking at 3.3.11 and 3.3.12. Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Fri 04 Jul 2008 11:23    Post subject: BlackHaze wrote: I'm not saying that Mexicans use the ODR on themselves. Many of them use it against people who do have SSA admixture. A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. I think that you are referring to "racism" or "ethnocentrism" or "hypodescent" or "colorism." Probably "colorism." The "one-drop rule" is something different. Please see The Rules paragraphs 3.3.5 - 3.3.10. I am not trying to be picky. But this site strives for technical precision of terminology. [(later edit) Oops. Sorry, Misterlawyer. I wrote mine before yours appeared, I did not mean to step on your toes.] Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Sat 05 Jul 2008 14:56    Post subject: BlackHaze wrote: onlyhuman77 wrote: BlackHaze wrote: The bulk of latinos in New York are carribean but nationally most latinos are Mexican or Chicano. I don't understand how Mexicans who are perhaps the Latin population with the least amount of SSA admixture could have any usage of the One Drop Rule, unless they are replacing SSA admixture with Native American admixture? I'm not saying that Mexicans use the ODR on themselves. Many of them use it against people who do have SSA admixture. Including other Latinos (from the Caribbean). Quote: A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. Negrophobia is a big part of hispanic culture and in the case of Mexicans, their hatred is not just directed towards people who are fully black, it's also directed towards people who are mixed. I'm beginning to believe that this may be present in the culture of Mexican nationals and not just the ones who are born or raised here. Quote: My other point is that Americans are conditioned to see latinos as a separate race because they act as separate races. In other words, Dominicans & Puerto Ricans see themselves as being separate from from people who are part African American and part somethng else. Thats the best I can explain it... To some extent this is true, but it's complicated by regional differences in the U.S. Many Dominicans and Puerto Ricans would be seen as racially black outside of places like New York, New Jersey, Conn., etc. On a related topic, Urban Latino came out with an article about how various Latinos in the U.S. racially identify. Hopefully I'll be able to find it and post it here. It was a good read and insightful. Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Sat 05 Jul 2008 15:03    Post subject: I am still awaiting an answer from Blackhaze to the moderator's questions and to my own questions, above. If no answer is forthcoming within the next 24 hours, Blackhaze's posting privilege will be suspended. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sat 05 Jul 2008 15:25    Post subject: G-Man wrote: Quote: A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. Negrophobia is a big part of hispanic culture and in the case of Mexicans, their hatred is not just directed towards people who are fully black, it's also directed towards people who are mixed. I'm beginning to believe that this may be present in the culture of Mexican nationals and not just the ones who are born or raised here. Tsk, tsk. Are you claiming a nacional racialist culture for Mexico? Like in the USA, perception varies by region and class. Nor would I say there is hatred for Blacks for the most part. In the US, when Mexicans come there is a certain level of distrust towards African Americans because of prior experiences passed on through word of mouth. Her ein Atlanta I have even seen it in Afro-Mexicans, quite cognizent of their own ancestry, but who have felt enough derogatory/superiority attitudes to dislike interaction with many AA's Back to top pianoplayer111 Wizard Joined: 16 May 2007 {Posts: 429 } Posted: Sun 06 Jul 2008 04:51    Post subject: I will be VERY careful with this one. In my experience, most Latinos where I live will be offended if somebody suggests the possibility of African ancestry to them. Based on the interactions I have had with several here in Florida, they either see themselves as distinctly separate from blacks (even the ones with an African phenotype) because of culture/language or they see themselves as White. More than a few Latinos have hurled racist insults my way despite the fact that I look whiter than they do. Most are not shy about muttering about somebody's "n***er hair" (their words). They feel that straight hair makes them "white". I'm speaking of the Latinos that I have come into contact with and it is unfortunate. "Latino" is a race within a race, one could say. There are Latinos of every color and I've always thought of them as a diverse people. Back to top BlackHaze Experienced User Joined: 29 Dec 2004 {Posts: 114 } Posted: Sun 06 Jul 2008 06:10    Post subject: MisterLawyer wrote: Quote: Many of them use it against people who do have SSA admixture. A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. Negrophobia is a big part of hispanic culture and in the case of Mexicans, their hatred is not just directed towards people who are fully black, it's also directed towards people who are mixed. I request a source or a clarification of this statement. WHat exactly do you mean by your assertion that Mexicans use the one drop rule against "people with SSA admixutre?" Many mexicans "do have SSA admixture." What do you mean by "hispanic culture?" Are you saying that "racists chicano gangs" are somehow more representitive of "hispanic culture?" than the Aryan Brotherhood is representitive of U.S. WASP culture or Chicago street gangs are representitive of African American culture? What do you mean by your assertion that Mexicans hate "black" and "biracial" people? That hispanics hate "black" and "biracial" people? Please keep in mind rules 3.2 and 3.3, specifically looking at 3.3.11 and 3.3.12. I can't provide a source so I'll retract the statement. I read the rules which state the ODR is "The notion that someone of European appearance who rejects a Black self-identity is involuntarily Black due merely to having “one drop” of known African ancestry, no matter how ancient, and is merely “passing for White.” I don't know whether most believe this, but apparently many of them view anyone with visible SSA features as Black. If it weren't true, the Chicano gang wouldn't have killed the young man I mentioned in my previous post. Sure, some Mexicans have SSA admixture but many of them are unaware of this fact. Or perhaps they're just very reluctant to "admit" it. Notice, I never said ALL Mexicans hate black and biracial people, I said many. And while it would be unfair to label all of them racist, I think anti-black hate crimes committed by Chicano gangs are a manifestations of anti-black sentiments that are common in their culture. fwsweet wrote: I am still awaiting an answer from Blackhaze to the moderator's questions and to my own questions, above. Ethnocentrism, Colorism and Racism are probably better terms to explain the crime. Back to top G-Man Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 } Posted: Sun 06 Jul 2008 13:28    Post subject: Salsassin wrote: G-Man wrote: Quote: A couple years ago, I posted a story about a bi-racial man who was gunned down by a racist chicano gang in his own home. Negrophobia is a big part of hispanic culture and in the case of Mexicans, their hatred is not just directed towards people who are fully black, it's also directed towards people who are mixed. I'm beginning to believe that this may be present in the culture of Mexican nationals and not just the ones who are born or raised here. Tsk, tsk. Are you claiming a nacional racialist culture for Mexico? Like in the USA, perception varies by region and class. Nor would I say there is hatred for Blacks for the most part. In the US, when Mexicans come there is a certain level of distrust towards African Americans because of prior experiences passed on through word of mouth. Her ein Atlanta I have even seen it in Afro-Mexicans, quite cognizent of their own ancestry, but who have felt enough derogatory/superiority attitudes to dislike interaction with many AA's I should have been clearer, but I was in a hurry when I posted this. What I mean is I'm beginning to think many Mexicans (as opposed to Mexican Americans) who espouse these views had them before they came to the U.S. and some degree of "negrophobia" may exist in Mexican culture. I can't make any definitive statements because my knowledge of Mexican society is superficial compared to others here. This is just speculation on my part. I'm not dealing with hatred, but a range of negative reactions from hatred to mild dislike. I do, however, realize that once in the U.S. these views can be generated by negative experiences with black folks, especially if all these experiences or most are negative. Back to top fwsweet Administrator Joined: 26 Nov 2004 {Posts: 5381 } Location: Palm Coast, FL Posted: Sun 06 Jul 2008 13:39    Post subject: G-Man wrote: What I mean is I'm beginning to think many Mexicans (as opposed to Mexican Americans) who espouse these views had them before they came to the U.S. and some degree of "negrophobia" may exist in Mexican culture. A paper presented at last year's "Colorism Exposed" conference dealt with this. It did not deal specifically with Mexicans' feelings towards fellow Mexicans of strong Afro appearance. But the evidence was strong that Mexico's cultural myths require denial of Afro ancestry. Mexican anthropologists, of course, publish findings showing much higher Afro admixture than in the U.S. But the general public denies it in an immediate knee-jerk reaction when asked. When shown photos of residents from around Vera Cruz, for example, other Mexicans either deny that they see any African traits in them or insist that the photos are faked or not of Mexicans. Back to top Salsassin SuperWizard Joined: 04 Apr 2005 {Posts: 3515 } Posted: Sun 06 Jul 2008 14:03    Post subject: fwsweet wrote: G-Man wrote: What I mean is I'm beginning to think many Mexicans (as opposed to Mexican Americans) who espouse these views had them before they came to the U.S. and some degree of "negrophobia" may exist in Mexican culture. A paper presented at last year's "Colorism Exposed" conference dealt with this. It did not deal specifically with Mexicans' feelings towards fellow Mexicans of strong Afro appearance. But the evidence was strong that Mexico's cultural myths require denial of Afro ancestry. Mexican anthropologists, of course, publish findings showing much higher Afro admixture than in the U.S. But the general public denies it in an immediate knee-jerk reaction when asked. When shown photos of residents from around Vera Cruz, for example, other Mexicans either deny that they see any African traits in them or insist that the photos are faked or not of Mexicans. Yeah, a cultural amnesia does exist. Back to top divana Experienced User Joined: 10 Aug 2006 {Posts: 119 } Location: Somewhere... Posted: Sun 03 Aug 2008 13:59    Post subject: Maybe it was an issue of cultural familiarity. It may be that the African-American females were more familiar with Latinos and their culture than West Indian/German cultures. Maybe they found the the WI girl prettier and were more jealous, or maybe it was the other way around - and it kept the quiet. Some women are just a trip. 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