Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1842 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Wed 08 Oct 2008 12:53 Post subject:
Richard Miller wrote:
DChapman wrote:
Though I have reservations about Palin, I certainly feel better about her than Hillary.
WOW! This has GOT to be the most partisan thing I have EVER heard in my life! Man, you'll for vote ANYONE who's Republican!
Wow, I guess you haven't heard many partisan things in your life then. I detest Hillary and Bill. I think it's insulting that she is a "senator" from my state, a state which she has never lived in and knew nothing about. All because she was the "wife" of a President. They are crooked thugs and gangsters albeit with a similey face in public. At least Palin has got to where she is on her own accord, not on that of her husband or anyone else.
No, I will not vote for ANYONE who is Republican, you obviously do not know what you're talking about when it comes time to me. But I am not about to vote for a naive socialist who wants to raise taxes during an economic crisis. To do so on anyone would be a BIG no no.
Though I have reservations about Palin, I certainly feel better about her than Hillary.
WOW! This has GOT to be the most partisan thing I have EVER heard in my life! Man, you'll for vote ANYONE who's Republican!
Wow, I guess you haven't heard many partisan things in your life then. I detest Hillary and Bill. I think it's insulting that she is a "senator" from my state, a state which she has never lived in and knew nothing about. All because she was the "wife" of a President. They are crooked thugs and gangsters albeit with a similey face in public. At least Palin has got to where she is on her own accord, not on that of her husband or anyone else.
No, I will not vote for ANYONE who is Republican, you obviously do not know what you're talking about when it comes time to me. But I am not about to vote for a naive socialist who wants to raise taxes during an economic crisis. To do so on anyone would be a BIG no no.
The thought of giving this unvetted therefore unknown, seemingly unintelligent or at least unenlightened, unsophisticated, two dimensional person so much power in my opinion is assinine. We live in a global community and have to deal with tough international issues and you support putting a person who says she has international experience because one can see Russia from Alaska, someone who can't name a single supreme court decision or hell a publication that she reads on a daily basis (echoes of George W. Bush). Someone who embraces her ignorance and dismisses any and all questions of her competence as "gotcha journalism" and proof of "liberal media" bias. Someone who is ignorant of the central tenets of the current administration therefore cannot honestly say she agrees with or disagrees with it.
Well I'm sorry I don't want the head of the PTA in the #2 spot in this country. I don't believe that having 5 kids qualifies you for any political position. I don't believe that someone who revels in mediocrity should be empowered to lead anyone. And I certainly will not vote for someone who foolishly chose her as a running mate.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1842 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Wed 08 Oct 2008 16:04 Post subject:
anonymouse wrote:
The thought of giving this unvetted therefore unknown, seemingly unintelligent or at least unenlightened, unsophisticated, two dimensional person so much power in my opinion is assinine.
What in your mind is enlightened? Just curious.
Sophisticated?? Perhaps what you mean here is that she's not an elitist, like Obama?
She's hardly un-intelligent. I know she didn't go to Columbia then onto Harvard Law, but neither did I, nor most people. What has Obama lead, other than he was a "Community Organizer"??? Has he lead a village, a business??? Surely, being in government does not automatically qualify one as a leader. No matter how many years of government experience one has.
anonymouse wrote:
We live in a global community and have to deal with tough international issues and you support putting a person who says she has international experience because one can see Russia from Alaska, someone who can't name a single supreme court decision or hell a publication that she reads on a daily basis (echoes of George W. Bush). Someone who embraces her ignorance and dismisses any and all questions of her competence as "gotcha journalism" and proof of "liberal media" bias. Someone who is ignorant of the central tenets of the current administration therefore cannot honestly say she agrees with or disagrees with it.
And what international experience does Obama have??? I mean, you can argue that Hillary has more international experience than Obama. And she does, by virtue she was "First Lady" for 8 years who traveled with her "husband".
anonymouse wrote:
Well I'm sorry I don't want the head of the PTA in the #2 spot in this country. I don't believe that having 5 kids qualifies you for any political position. I don't believe that someone who revels in mediocrity should be empowered to lead anyone. And I certainly will not vote for someone who foolishly chose her as a running mate.
A man whom some people have visions of a "messiah" who will solve all our problems worries me. Kids singing songs about him, and kids dressed in military garb, professing their support of Obama worries me greatly. We have never seen this before in our country. Such images usually come from places like Hitler's Germany, Stalin's Russia, Mao's China. Hitler rose to power during dire economic times and telling people what they wanted hear. I am not saying that Obama could become another Hitler, I do not believe that. But I think the situations are all too similar. As a student of history, I hope to learn from it. That said, I do have reservations about Palin being Commander In Chief. It's almost as if Biden should be at the head and Obama the VP pick. ,
Before you or anyone else jumps to assumptions about me, I have not made up my mind who I am voting for. It's clearly not Mr. Government has all the answers and can solve all our problems. My first choice as I have stated a while back is Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party. If he is on the ballot in my state, he is who I am voting for. If not, then McCain.
The thought of giving this unvetted therefore unknown, seemingly unintelligent or at least unenlightened, unsophisticated, two dimensional person so much power in my opinion is assinine.
What in your mind is enlightened? Just curious.
Sophisticated?? Perhaps what you mean here is that she's not an elitist, like Obama?
I still don't understand how the guy who grew up poor and on food stamps is suddenly an elitist because he is intelligent and excelled in schools. How can you even say/type that with a straight face?
DChapman wrote:
She's hardly un-intelligent. I know she didn't go to Columbia then onto Harvard Law, but neither did I, nor most people.
And most people are not qualified to run this country as well. not saying an Ivy League education is a prerequisite but what kind of Bizzaro world do we live in when education is seen as something to be ashamed of or a handicap? People actually touted the fact she was a mayor of 6,000 people she is actually qualified to run this country. Ludicrous.
DChapman wrote:
What has Obama lead, other than he was a "Community Organizer"??? Has he lead a village, a business??? Surely, being in government does not automatically qualify one as a leader. No matter how many years of government experience one has.
But isn't that exactly McCain's claim to fame? His years of government experience? You can't have it both ways
anonymouse wrote:
We live in a global community and have to deal with tough international issues and you support putting a person who says she has international experience because one can see Russia from Alaska, someone who can't name a single supreme court decision or hell a publication that she reads on a daily basis (echoes of George W. Bush). Someone who embraces her ignorance and dismisses any and all questions of her competence as "gotcha journalism" and proof of "liberal media" bias. Someone who is ignorant of the central tenets of the current administration therefore cannot honestly say she agrees with or disagrees with it.
DChapman wrote:
And what international experience does Obama have??? I mean, you can argue that Hillary has more international experience than Obama. And she does, by virtue she was "First Lady" for 8 years who traveled with her "husband".
And Obama lived in Indonesia, spoke Malay (Indonesian), interacted and lived with the people of the most populous Muslim country in the world. While he is not Muslim I daresay he has a pretty good understanding of the religion, something our leaders need to have. He traveled to Kenya, interacted with family and friends and made lifelong contacts. I have met people who have never left this country. I have met people who have never gone more than 4 or 5 hours from where they were born. And such people invariably have such a small worldview it is sad sigh tot witness.
anonymouse wrote:
Well I'm sorry I don't want the head of the PTA in the #2 spot in this country. I don't believe that having 5 kids qualifies you for any political position. I don't believe that someone who revels in mediocrity should be empowered to lead anyone. And I certainly will not vote for someone who foolishly chose her as a running mate.
DChapman wrote:
A man whom some people have visions of a "messiah" who will solve all our problems worries me. Kids singing songs about him, and kids dressed in military garb, professing their support of Obama worries me greatly.
The day after Palin was picked peopel were raving about her saying that they loved her. And just about nobody knew anything about her just blindly supported her because she was against abortion and was a republican. That scares me.
As far as the kids, they were imitating what black aspiring fraternity members have been doing for close to 100 years (the oldest black fraternity, the Alphas, was formed in 1908). Lets not exagerate and make this video more that what it really is. Here are some vids of prbate lines from teh 4 largest black fraternities
See anything familiar? Now I am not sure how white frats do things because I went to a HSCU but there are probably many similarities.
DChapman wrote:
That said, I do have reservations about Palin being Commander In Chief.
Reservations? That's it? She shouldn't have been on the ticket at all. And the fact that McCain chose her does very little to reassure me about his judgment. Matter of fact had he chosen Lieberman this election probably would have been wrapped up by now.
DChapman wrote:
It's almost as if Biden should be at the head and Obama the VP pick.
That has actually crossed my mind as well. But Biden was not chosen in the primaries, Obama was.
DChapman wrote:
Before you or anyone else jumps to assumptions about me, I have not made up my mind who I am voting for. It's clearly not Mr. Government has all the answers and can solve all our problems.
Like bailing out our financial industries? Or buying up "bad" home loans?
DChapman wrote:
My first choice as I have stated a while back is Chuck Baldwin of the Constitution Party. If he is on the ballot in my state, he is who I am voting for. If not, then McCain.
I'd rather you abstain than vote for McCain (no pun intended)
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1842 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Wed 08 Oct 2008 17:38 Post subject:
anonymouse wrote:
These are Kappas (Kappa Alpha Psi).....
My grandfather was a Kappa, the Xi Chapter. November 4th, 1921.
anonymouse wrote:
I still don't understand how the guy who grew up poor and on food stamps is suddenly an elitist because he is intelligent and excelled in schools. How can you even say/type that with a straight face?
Am I mistaken?? I thought he went to a private High School??? It's his mindset, IMO, that makes him elitist.
anonymouse wrote:
And most people are not qualified to run this country as well. not saying an Ivy League education is a prerequisite but what kind of Bizzaro world do we live in when education is seen as something to be ashamed of or a handicap? People actually touted the fact she was a mayor of 6,000 people she is actually qualified to run this country. Ludicrous.
No, education is certainly not something to be ashamed of. But an Ivy League education certainly is not qualification to lead or be President, as you indicated. No, I think people touted the fact that she is Governor of Alaska as opposed to mayor of 6,000 people, Wasila I believe. Again, she has made budgets, vetoed legislation, met payrolls. I'm not saying that Obama cannot do those things, but he does not have any experience in doing so.
anonymouse wrote:
But isn't that exactly McCain's claim to fame? His years of government experience? You can't have it both ways
Sort of. I still think most Americans at the end of the day will feel more comfortable with McCain.
anonymouse wrote:
And Obama lived in Indonesia, spoke Malay (Indonesian), interacted and lived with the people of the most populous Muslim country in the world. While he is not Muslim I daresay he has a pretty good understanding of the religion, something our leaders need to have. He traveled to Kenya, interacted with family and friends and made lifelong contacts.
I know quite of few people who can fit this description. This doesn't mean they have foreign policy experience. I do think that Obama will be able to catch on rather quickly. I just do not trust his world view and I think it will be dangerous for America, just me....
anonymouse wrote:
The day after Palin was picked peopel were raving about her saying that they loved her. And just about nobody knew anything about her just blindly supported her because she was against abortion and was a republican. That scares me.
Well you should have been around me that day!!!!! That whole weekend!!!
Posted: Wed 08 Oct 2008 21:46 Post subject: Palin’s Kind of Patriotism by THomas Friedman
Quote:
October 8, 2008
Op-Ed Columnist
NY Times
Palin’s Kind of Patriotism
By THOMAS L. FRIEDMAN
Criticizing Sarah Palin is truly shooting fish in a barrel. But given the huge attention she is getting, you can’t just ignore what she has to say. And there was one thing she said in the debate with Joe Biden that really sticks in my craw. It was when she turned to Biden and declared: “You said recently that higher taxes or asking for higher taxes or paying higher taxes is patriotic. In the middle class of America, which is where Todd and I have been all of our lives, that’s not patriotic.”
What an awful statement. Palin defended the government’s $700 billion rescue plan. She defended the surge in Iraq, where her own son is now serving. She defended sending more troops to Afghanistan. And yet, at the same time, she declared that Americans who pay their fair share of taxes to support all those government-led endeavors should not be considered patriotic.
I only wish she had been asked: “Governor Palin, if paying taxes is not considered patriotic in your neighborhood, who is going to pay for the body armor that will protect your son in Iraq? Who is going to pay for the bailout you endorsed? If it isn’t from tax revenues, there are only two ways to pay for those big projects — printing more money or borrowing more money. Do you think borrowing money from China is more patriotic than raising it in taxes from Americans?” That is not putting America first. That is selling America first.
Sorry, I grew up in a very middle-class family in a very middle-class suburb of Minneapolis, and my parents taught me that paying taxes, while certainly no fun, was how we paid for the police and the Army, our public universities and local schools, scientific research and Medicare for the elderly. No one said it better than Justice Oliver Wendell Holmes: “I like paying taxes. With them I buy civilization.”
I can understand someone saying that the government has no business bailing out the financial system, but I can’t understand someone arguing that we should do that but not pay for it with taxes. I can understand someone saying we have no business in Iraq, but I can’t understand someone who advocates staying in Iraq until “victory” declaring that paying taxes to fund that is not patriotic.
How in the world can conservative commentators write with a straight face that this woman should be vice president of the United States? Do these people understand what serious trouble our country is in right now?
We are in the middle of an economic perfect storm, and we don’t know how much worse it’s going to get. People all over the world are hoarding cash, and no bank feels that it can fully trust anyone it is doing business with anywhere in the world. Did you notice that the government of Iceland just seized the country’s second-largest bank and today is begging Russia for a $5 billion loan to stave off “national bankruptcy.” What does that say? It tells you that financial globalization has gone so much farther and faster than regulatory institutions could govern it. Our crisis could bankrupt Iceland! Who knew?
And we have not yet even felt the full economic brunt here. I fear we may be at that moment just before the tsunami hits — when the birds take flight and the insects stop chirping because their acute senses can feel what is coming before humans can. At this moment, only good governance can save us. I am not sure that this crisis will end without every government in every major economy guaranteeing the creditworthiness of every financial institution it regulates. That may be the only way to get lending going again. Organizing something that big and complex will take some really smart governance and seasoned leadership.
Whether or not I agree with John McCain, he is of presidential timber. But putting the country in the position where a total novice like Sarah Palin could be asked to steer us through possibly the most serious economic crisis of our lives is flat out reckless. It is the opposite of conservative.
And please don’t tell me she will hire smart advisers. What happens when her two smartest advisers disagree?
And please also don’t tell me she is an “energy expert.” She is an energy expert exactly the same way the king of Saudi Arabia is an energy expert — by accident of residence. Palin happens to be governor of the Saudi Arabia of America — Alaska — and the only energy expertise she has is the same as the king of Saudi Arabia’s. It’s about how the windfall profits from the oil in their respective kingdoms should be divided between the oil companies and the people.
At least the king of Saudi Arabia, in advocating “drill baby drill,” is serving his country’s interests — by prolonging America’s dependence on oil. My problem with Palin is that she is also serving his country’s interests — by prolonging America’s dependence on oil. That’s not patriotic. Patriotic is offering a plan to build our economy — not by tax cuts or punching more holes in the ground, but by empowering more Americans to work in productive and innovative jobs. If Palin has that kind of a plan, I haven’t heard it.
October 8, 2008
"I Don't Mess With Black Men"
Palin's Racist Remark
By LINN WASHINGTON, Jr.
It’s that character thing, Sarah Palin declares.
The GOP’s VP candidate defends her increasingly strident verbal assaults on Barack Obama as legitimate questions about the Democratic presidential candidate.
Well, for Charles Greg Royal, it’s that character thing also.
This internationally renowned jazz musician recently utilized the National Press Club in Washington, DC to recount a flirtatious encounter he had in Alaska with a woman who identified herself as Sarah Heath.
Royal said this encounter ended after a racist remark by the woman now known as Gov Sarah Palin.
Making that racist remark, Royal contends, coupled with Gov Palin’s disengaged relations with racial minorities in Alaska speaks volumes about her character.
"When you view what happened with me in the context with what is happening with blacks and other minorities in Alaska under Gov Palin, it is clear that what I encountered was not a fluke. It shows her character," Royal said during an interview hours after that press conference in DC where he directs the American Youth Symphony, Inc.
While that racist remark reflects character, Royal said, the flirtation by a woman who did not reveal at the time that she was both married and pregnant speaks to "mortality and fidelity."
Royal said that in 1990, when performing with the Duke Ellington Band in Anchorage, the trombonist struck up a conversation with a woman at a fast food restaurant who initially identified herself as Sarah. During that conversation, Sarah volunteered that her last name was Heath, Royal said, after he mentioned the acclaimed jazz musician Percy Heath. Palin’s maiden name is Heath.
Royal said the conversation went smoothly until some of his fellow Band members came over to the table. Sarah’s entire demeanor changed.
While Royal is a light skin black man sometimes mistaken as white by whites, his fellow jazzmen causing Heath’s attitude shift were dark skin.
"You could see it...the body language. There was a visceral reaction," said Royal who asked Sarah if something was wrong.
According to Royal, Heath’s response to his inquiry was, "Excuse me, but I don’t mess with black men."
Royal said he told Heath, "I’m a black man" and Sarah responded, "But, you’re not really black."
Royal, who admits trying to "hit on" Sarah, said he ended the conversation telling her not to worry about it and have a nice day.
Royal said he began connecting dots between that encounter 18-years ago and the current GOP VP candidate after watching a biographical report about Palin on television.
"I did not know Palin was the person I spoke with until I saw the MSNBC program," Royal said. "My reaction was Holy Shit!"
When asked how he could possible remember a brief encounter so many years ago, Royal said, "there are a lot of details I do not remember but the key triggers are things anyone could remember and when a person says "I don’t talk to black guys" when the black guys are not actually trying to date you or talk to in anyway that is not a dating comment but a racist one."
Gov Palin’s Press Secretary, Bill McAllister, did not respond to an emailed request for comment on Royal’s claims.
This encounter with Palin that Royal revealed comes at a time of revelations about dissatisfactions voiced by racial minorities in Alaska about the governance policies and practices of Palin, a former mayor of a small city elected as that state’s chief executive two years ago.
Eleanor Andrews, board chair of the Anchorage Urban League, said she is unaware of any programs or outreach to Alaska’s black community by Palin.
"It’s not a disengagement. It’s just no connection. She does not have relations with African Americans," said Andrews, a businesswoman and 44-year resident of Alaska.
While Gov Palin has twice refused to either attend or even formally recognize an official state holiday in Alaska important to African-Americans, she delivered a video-taped address this year for the convention of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group pushing secession of Alaska from the United States. Palin’s husband, Todd, belonged to this Party for seven years.
"People say that when [Palin] took over as governor blacks lost jobs in state government," said attorney Rex Butler. "It seems that the posture of her administration with blacks is: Don’t need them – Don’t worry about them."
Palin, through spokespersons, denies allegations that her record of hiring and retaining racial minorities in government posts compares poorly with her predecessors.
"I’m African-American and I am a big rebuttal to those charges," said Palin Press Secretary Bill McAllister, a former broadcast journalist.
"She is not averse to hiring Africa-Americans," said McAllister who acknowledged that Palin’s office "never" compiled statistics on minorities in her administration.
McAllister joined Palin’s staff in August 2008, a few months after a contentious meeting between Palin and a group of black leaders where her staffing was questioned.
With Palin’s campaign trail criticisms assailing Obama’s former pastor Jeremiah Wright Jr. being anti-white and anti-American, concerns again arise about a line in her RNC acceptance speech. The source of that line is the late writer Westbrook Pegler, a man known for his anti-Semitism, criticism of the 60s Civil Rights Movement and work with notorious segregationist groups.
Although a President Bush speech writer penned Palin’s RNC speech, she never distanced herself from Pegler once the source of that quote became widely known. Yet, Palin incorrectly claims Obama has never distanced himself from 60s-era radical Bill Ayers – the man she terms a domestic terrorist.
Racially tinged reactions at McCain-Palin rallies have made news recently. A person at a Palin rally in Fort Myers, Fl told a black television technician to "Sit down Boy" during outbursts following a Palin tirade against the media.
Royal says he’s "not political" although he admits favoring Obama. But Royal says he decided to reveal his encounter with Palin because he felt it was a factoid of some may find significant when considering the Palin candidacy.
"I feel that Palin is a very narrow viewed and culturally unsophisticated person who clearly has not seen the world or its diverse peoples," Royal said.
"The racism I believe she possesses is not necessarily from a misguided hatred but from a boastful ignorance that clearly celebrates the need not to know or the desire to know."
Linn Washington Jr. is a columnist for The Philadelphia Tribune.
"When you view what happened with me in the context with what is happening with blacks and other minorities in Alaska under Gov Palin, it is clear that what I encountered was not a fluke. It shows her character," Royal said during an interview hours after that press conference in DC where he directs the American Youth Symphony, Inc.
What’s actually happening with blacks and “other minorities” (like Palin’s husband I assume) in Alaska under Palin’s administration?
Quote:
This encounter with Palin that Royal revealed comes at a time of revelations about dissatisfactions voiced by racial minorities in Alaska about the governance policies and practices of Palin, a former mayor of a small city elected as that state’s chief executive two years ago.
Eleanor Andrews, board chair of the Anchorage Urban League, said she is unaware of any programs or outreach to Alaska’s black community by Palin.
So a member of a civil rights organization in a state with a minimal black population is concerned about the lack of gov’t largesse making its way to power brokers like herself and this represents dissatisfaction voiced by “racial minorities” (Asian, black, Latino, Indigenous?) in Alaska.
Quote:
"It’s not a disengagement. It’s just no connection. She does not have relations with African Americans," said Andrews, a businesswoman and 44-year resident of Alaska.
Probably because there are very few African Americans in Alaska. Are there even black neighborhoods in Alaska?
I remember coming across some information claiming that Alaska's black population had one of the highest standards of living of most other state's black populations. Anyone have any info on this?
Powell wrote:
Quote:
At least Sarah's not a one-dropper.
Well, at least there was something positive about her in that article.
Meet Sarah Palin's radical right-wing pals
Extremists Mark Chryson and Steve Stoll helped launch Palin's political career in Alaska, and in return had influence over policy. "Her door was open," says Chryson -- and still is.
By Max Blumenthal and David Neiwert
Editor's note: Research support provided by the Nation Institute Investigative Fund. For Salon's complete coverage of Sarah Palin, click here.
On the afternoon of Sept. 24 in downtown Palmer, Alaska, as the sun began to sink behind the snowcapped mountains that flank the picturesque Mat-Su Valley, 51-year-old Mark Chryson sat for an hour on a park bench, reveling in tales of his days as chairman of the Alaska Independence Party. The stocky, gray-haired computer technician waxed nostalgic about quixotic battles to eliminate taxes, support the "traditional family" and secede from the United States.
So long as Alaska remained under the boot of the federal government, said Chryson, the AIP had to stand on guard to stymie a New World Order. He invited a Salon reporter to see a few items inside his pickup truck that were intended for his personal protection. "This here is my attack dog," he said with a chuckle, handing the reporter an exuberant 8-pound papillon from his passenger seat. "Her name is Suzy." Then he pulled a 9-millimeter Makarov PM pistol -- once the standard-issue sidearm for Soviet cops -- out of his glove compartment. "I've got enough weaponry to raise a small army in my basement," he said, clutching the gun in his palm. "Then again, so do most Alaskans." But Chryson added a message of reassurance to residents of that faraway place some Alaskans call "the 48." "We want to go our separate ways," he said, "but we are not going to kill you."
Though Chryson belongs to a fringe political party, one that advocates the secession of Alaska from the Union, and that organizes with other like-minded secessionist movements from Canada to the Deep South, he is not without peculiar influence in state politics, especially the rise of Sarah Palin. An obscure figure outside of Alaska, Chryson has been a political fixture in the hometown of the Republican vice-presidential nominee for over a decade. During the 1990s, when Chryson directed the AIP, he and another radical right-winger, Steve Stoll, played a quiet but pivotal role in electing Palin as mayor of Wasilla and shaping her political agenda afterward. Both Stoll and Chryson not only contributed to Palin's campaign financially, they played major behind-the-scenes roles in the Palin camp before, during and after her victory.
Palin backed Chryson as he successfully advanced a host of anti-tax, pro-gun initiatives, including one that altered the state Constitution's language to better facilitate the formation of anti-government militias. She joined in their vendetta against several local officials they disliked, and listened to their advice about hiring. She attempted to name Stoll, a John Birch Society activist known in the Mat-Su Valley as "Black Helicopter Steve," to an empty Wasilla City Council seat. "Every time I showed up her door was open," said Chryson. "And that policy continued when she became governor."
When Chryson first met Sarah Palin, however, he didn't really trust her politically. It was the early 1990s, when he was a member of a local libertarian pressure group called SAGE, or Standing Against Government Excess. (SAGE's founder, Tammy McGraw, was Palin's birth coach.) Palin was a leader in a pro-sales-tax citizens group called WOW, or Watch Over Wasilla, earning a political credential before her 1992 campaign for City Council. Though he was impressed by her interpersonal skills, Chryson greeted Palin's election warily, thinking she was too close to the Democrats on the council and too pro-tax.
But soon, Palin and Chryson discovered they could be useful to each other. Palin would be running for mayor, while Chryson was about to take over the chairmanship of the Alaska Independence Party, which at its peak in 1990 had managed to elect a governor.
The AIP was born of the vision of "Old Joe" Vogler, a hard-bitten former gold miner who hated the government of the United States almost as much as he hated wolves and environmentalists. His resentment peaked during the early 1970s when the federal government began installing Alaska's oil and gas pipeline. Fueled by raw rage -- "The United States has made a colony of Alaska," he told author John McPhee in 1977 -- Vogler declared a maverick candidacy for the governorship in 1982. Though he lost, Old Joe became a force to be reckoned with, as well as a constant source of amusement for Alaska's political class. During a gubernatorial debate in 1982, Vogler proposed using nuclear weapons to obliterate the glaciers blocking roadways to Juneau. "There's gold under there!" he exclaimed.
Vogler made another failed run for the governor's mansion in 1986. But the AIP's fortunes shifted suddenly four years later when Vogler convinced Richard Nixon's former interior secretary, Wally Hickel, to run for governor under his party's banner. Hickel coasted to victory, outflanking a moderate Republican and a centrist Democrat. An archconservative Republican running under the AIP candidate, Jack Coghill, was elected lieutenant governor.
Hickel's subsequent failure as governor to press for a vote on Alaskan independence rankled Old Joe. With sponsorship from the Islamic Republic of Iran, Vogler was scheduled to present his case for Alaskan secession before the United Nations General Assembly in the late spring of 1993. But before he could, Old Joe's long, strange political career ended tragically that May when he was murdered by a fellow secessionist.
Hickel rejoined the Republican Party the year after Vogler's death and didn't run for reelection. Lt. Gov. Coghill's campaign to succeed him as the AIP candidate for governor ended in disaster; he peeled away just enough votes from the Republican, Jim Campbell, to throw the gubernatorial election to Democrat Tony Knowles.
Despite the disaster, Coghill hung on as AIP chairman for three more years. When he was asked to resign in 1997, Mark Chryson replaced him. Chryson pursued a dual policy of cozying up to secessionist and right-wing groups in Alaska and elsewhere while also attempting to replicate the AIP's success with Hickel in infiltrating the mainstream.
Unlike some radical right-wingers, Chryson doesn't put forward his ideas freighted with anger or paranoia. And in a state where defense of gun and property rights often takes on a real religious fervor, Chryson was able to present himself as a typical Alaskan.
He rose through party ranks by reducing the AIP's platform to a single page that "90 percent of Alaskans could agree with." This meant scrubbing the old platform of what Chryson called "racist language" while accommodating the state's growing Christian right movement by emphasizing the AIP's commitment to the "traditional family."
"The AIP is very family-oriented," Chryson explained. "We're for the traditional family -- daddy, mommy, kids -- because we all know that it was Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. And we don't care if Heather has two mommies. That's not a traditional family."
Chryson further streamlined the AIP's platform by softening its secessionist language. Instead of calling for immediate separation from the United States, the platform now demands a vote on independence.
Yet Chryson maintains that his party remains committed to full independence. "The Alaskan Independence Party has got links to almost every independence-minded movement in the world," Chryson exclaimed. "And Alaska is not the only place that's about separation. There's at least 30 different states that are talking about some type of separation from the United States."
This has meant rubbing shoulders and forging alliances with outright white supremacists and far-right theocrats, particularly those who dominate the proceedings at such gatherings as the North American Secessionist conventions, which AIP delegates have attended in recent years. The AIP's affiliation with neo-Confederate organizations is motivated as much by ideological affinity as by organizational convenience. Indeed, Chryson makes no secret of his sympathy for the Lost Cause. "Should the Confederate states have been allowed to separate and go their peaceful ways?" Chryson asked rhetorically. "Yes. The War of Northern Aggression, or the Civil War, or the War Between the States -- however you want to refer to it -- was not about slavery, it was about states' rights."
Another far-right organization with whom the AIP has long been aligned is Howard Phillips' militia-minded Constitution Party. The AIP has been listed as the Constitution Party's state affiliate since the late 1990s, and it has endorsed the Constitution Party's presidential candidates (Michael Peroutka and Chuck Baldwin) in the past two elections.
The Constitution Party boasts an openly theocratic platform that reads, "It is our goal to limit the federal government to its delegated, enumerated, Constitutional functions and to restore American jurisprudence to its original Biblical common-law foundations." In its 1990s incarnation as the U.S. Taxpayers Party, it was on the front lines in promoting the "militia" movement, and a significant portion of its membership comprises former and current militia members.
At its 1992 convention, the AIP hosted both Phillips -- the USTP's presidential candidate -- and militia-movement leader Col. James "Bo" Gritz, who was campaigning for president under the banner of the far-right Populist Party. According to Chryson, AIP regulars heavily supported Gritz, but the party deferred to Phillips' presence and issued no official endorsements.
In Wasilla, the AIP became powerful by proxy -- because of Chryson and Stoll's alliance with Sarah Palin. Chryson and Stoll had found themselves in constant opposition to policies of Wasilla's Democratic mayor, who started his three-term, nine-year tenure in 1987. By 1992, Chryson and Stoll had begun convening regular protests outside City Council. Their demonstrations invariably involved grievances against any and all forms of "socialist government," from city planning to public education. Stoll shared Chryson's conspiratorial views: "The rumor was that he had wrapped his guns in plastic and buried them in his yard so he could get them after the New World Order took over," Stein told a reporter.
Chryson did not trust Palin when she joined the City Council in 1992. He claimed that she was handpicked by Democratic City Council leaders and by Wasilla's Democratic mayor, John Stein, to rubber-stamp their tax hike proposals. "When I first met her," he said, "I thought she was extremely left. But I've watched her slowly as she's become more pronounced in her conservative ideology."
Palin was well aware of Chryson's views. "She knew my beliefs," Chryson said. "The entire state knew my beliefs. I wasn't afraid of being on the news, on camera speaking my views."
But Chryson believes she trusted his judgment because he accurately predicted what life on the City Council would be like. "We were telling her, 'This is probably what's going to happen,'" he said. "'The city is going to give this many people raises, they're going to pave everybody's roads, and they're going to pave the City Council members' roads.' We couldn't have scripted it better because everything we predicted came true."
After intense evangelizing by Chryson and his allies, they claimed Palin as a convert. "When she started taking her job seriously," Chryson said, "the people who put her in as the rubber stamp found out the hard way that she was not going to go their way." In 1994, Sarah Palin attended the AIP's statewide convention. In 1995, her husband, Todd, changed his voter registration to AIP. Except for an interruption of a few months, he would remain registered was an AIP member until 2002, when he changed his registration to undeclared.
In 1996, Palin decided to run against John Stein as the Republican candidate for mayor of Wasilla. While Palin pushed back against Stein's policies, particularly those related to funding public works, Chryson said he and Steve Stoll prepared the groundwork for her mayoral campaign.
Chryson and Stoll viewed Palin's ascendancy as a vehicle for their own political ambitions. "She got support from these guys," Stein remarked. "I think smart politicians never utter those kind of radical things, but they let other people do it for them. I never recall Sarah saying she supported the militia or taking a public stand like that. But these guys were definitely behind Sarah, thinking she was the more conservative choice."
"They worked behind the scenes," said Stein. "I think they had a lot of influence in terms of helping with the back-scatter negative campaigning."
Indeed, Chryson boasted that he and his allies urged Palin to focus her campaign on slashing character-based attacks. For instance, Chryson advised Palin to paint Stein as a sexist who had told her "to just sit there and look pretty" while she served on Wasilla's City Council. Though Palin never made this accusation, her 1996 campaign for mayor was the most negative Wasilla residents had ever witnessed.
While Palin played up her total opposition to the sales tax and gun control -- the two hobgoblins of the AIP -- mailers spread throughout the town portraying her as "the Christian candidate," a subtle suggestion that Stein, who is Lutheran, might be Jewish. "I watched that campaign unfold, bringing a level of slime our community hadn't seen until then," recalled Phil Munger, a local music teacher who counts himself as a close friend of Stein.
"This same group [Stoll and Chryson] also [publicly] challenged me on whether my wife and I were married because she had kept her maiden name," Stein bitterly recalled. "So we literally had to produce a marriage certificate. And as I recall, they said, 'Well, you could have forged that.'"
When Palin won the election, the men who had once shouted anti-government slogans outside City Hall now had a foothold inside the mayor's office. Palin attempted to pay back her newfound pals during her first City Council meeting as mayor. In that meeting, on Oct. 14, 1996, she appointed Stoll to one of the City Council's two newly vacant seats. But Palin was blocked by the single vote of then-Councilman Nick Carney, who had endured countless rancorous confrontations with Stoll and considered him a "violent" influence on local politics. Though Palin considered consulting attorneys about finding another means of placing Stoll on the council, she was ultimately forced to back down and accept a compromise candidate.
Emboldened by his nomination by Mayor Palin, Stoll later demanded she fire Wasilla's museum director, John Cooper, a personal enemy he longed to sabotage. Palin obliged, eliminating Cooper's position in short order. "Gotcha, Cooper!" Stoll told the deposed museum director after his termination, as Cooper told a reporter for the New York Times. "And it only cost me a campaign contribution." Stoll, who donated $1,000 to Palin's mayoral campaign, did not respond to numerous requests for an interview. Palin has blamed budget concerns for Cooper's departure.
The following year, when Carney proposed a local gun-control measure, Palin organized with Chryson to smother the nascent plan in its cradle. Carney's proposed ordinance would have prohibited residents from carrying guns into schools, bars, hospitals, government offices and playgrounds. Infuriated by the proposal that Carney viewed as a common-sense public-safety measure, Chryson and seven allies stormed a July 1997 council meeting.
With the bill still in its formative stages, Carney was not even ready to present it to the council, let alone conduct public hearings on it. He and other council members objected to the ad-hoc hearing as "a waste of time." But Palin -- in plain violation of council rules and norms -- insisted that Chryson testify, stating, according to the minutes, that "she invites the public to speak on any issue at any time."
When Carney tried later in the meeting to have the ordinance discussed officially at the following regular council meeting, he couldn't even get a second. His proposal died that night, thanks to Palin and her extremist allies.
"A lot of it was the ultra-conservative far right that is against everything in government, including taxes," recalled Carney. "A lot of it was a personal attack on me as being anti-gun, and a personal attack on anybody who deigned to threaten their authority to carry a loaded firearm wherever they pleased. That was the tenor of it. And it was being choreographed by Steve Stoll and the mayor."
Asked if he thought it was Palin who had instigated the turnout, he replied: "I know it was."
By Chryson's account, he and Palin also worked hand-in-glove to slash property taxes and block a state proposal that would have taken money for public programs from the Permanent Fund Dividend, or the oil and gas fund that doles out annual payments to citizens of Alaska. Palin endorsed Chryson's unsuccessful initiative to move the state Legislature from Juneau to Wasilla. She also lent her support to Chryson's crusade to alter the Alaska Constitution's language on gun rights so cities and counties could not impose their own restrictions. "It took over 10 years to get that language written in," Chryson said. "But Sarah [Palin] was there supporting it."
"With Sarah as a mayor," said Chryson, "there were a number of times when I just showed up at City Hall and said, 'Hey, Sarah, we need help.' I think there was only one time when I wasn't able to talk to her and that was because she was in a meeting."
Chryson says the door remains open now that Palin is governor. (Palin's office did not respond to Salon's request for an interview.) While Palin has been more circumspect in her dealings with groups like the AIP as she has risen through the political ranks, she has stayed in touch.
When Palin ran for governor in 2006, marketing herself as a fresh-faced reformer determined to crush the GOP's ossified power structure, she made certain to appear at the AIP's state convention. To burnish her maverick image, she also tapped one-time AIP member and born-again Republican Walter Hickel as her campaign co-chair. Hickel barnstormed the state for Palin, hailing her support for an "all-Alaska" liquefied gas pipeline, a project first promoted in 2002 by an AIP gubernatorial candidate named Nels Anderson. When Palin delivered her victory speech on election night, Hickel stood beaming by her side. "I made her governor," he boasted afterward. Two years later, Hickel has endorsed Palin's bid for vice president.
Just months before Palin burst onto the national stage as McCain's vice-presidential nominee, she delivered a videotaped address to the AIP's annual convention. Her message was scrupulously free of secessionist rhetoric, but complementary nonetheless. "I share your party's vision of upholding the Constitution of our great state," Palin told the assembly of AIP delegates. "My administration remains focused on reining in government growth so individual liberty can expand. I know you agree with that ... Keep up the good work and God bless you."
When Palin became the Republican vice-presidential nominee, her attendance of the 1994 and 2006 AIP conventions and her husband's membership in the party (as well as Palin's videotaped welcome to the AIP's 2008 convention) generated a minor controversy. Chryson claimed, however, that Sarah and Todd Palin never even played a minor role in his party's internal affairs. "Sarah's never been a member of the Alaskan Independence Party," Chryson insisted. "Todd has, but most of rural Alaska has too. I never saw him at a meeting. They were at one meeting I was at. Sarah said hello, but I didn't pay attention because I was taking care of business."
But whether the Palins participated directly in shaping the AIP's program is less relevant than the extent to which they will implement that program. Chryson and his allies have demonstrated just as much interest in grooming major party candidates as they have in putting forward their own people. At a national convention of secessionist groups in 2007, AIP vice chairman Dexter Carter announced that his party would seek to "infiltrate" the Democratic and Republican parties with candidates sympathetic to its hard-right, secessionist agenda. "You should use that tactic. You should infiltrate," Carter told his audience of neo-Confederates, theocrats and libertarians. "Whichever party you think in that area you can get something done, get into that party. Even though that party has its problems, right now that is the only avenue."
Carter pointed to Palin's political career as the model of a successful infiltration. "There's a lot of talk of her moving up," Carter said of Palin. "She was a member [of the AIP] when she was mayor of a small town, that was a nonpartisan job. But to get along and to go along she switched to the Republican Party … She is pretty well sympathetic because of her membership."
Carter's assertion that Palin was once a card-carrying AIP member was swiftly discredited by the McCain campaign, which produced records showing she had been a registered Republican since 1988. But then why would Carter make such a statement? Why did he seem confident that Palin was a true-blue AIP activist burrowing within the Republican Party? The most salient answer is that Palin was once so thoroughly embedded with AIP figures like Chryson and Stoll and seemed so enthusiastic about their agenda, Carter may have simply assumed she belonged to his party.
Now, Palin is a household name and her every move is scrutinized by the Washington press corps. She can no longer afford to kibitz with secessionists, however instrumental they may have been to her meteoric ascendancy. This does not trouble her old AIP allies. Indeed, Chryson is hopeful that Palin's inauguration will also represent the start of a new infiltration.
"I've had my issues but she's still staying true to her core values," Chryson concluded. "Sarah's friends don't all agree with her, but do they respect her? Do they respect her ideology and her values? Definitely."
The Palins' un-American activities
Imagine if the Obamas had hooked up with a violently anti-American group in league with the government of Iran.
By David Talbot
Editor's note: You can find Salon's complete coverage of Sarah Palin here.
Oct. 07, 2008 | "My government is my worst enemy. I'm going to fight them with any means at hand."
This was former revolutionary terrorist Bill Ayers back in his old Weather Underground days, right? Imagine what Sarah Palin is going to do with this incendiary quote as she tears into Barack Obama this week.
Only one problem. The quote is from Joe Vogler, the raging anti-American who founded the Alaska Independence Party. Inconveniently for Palin, that's the very same secessionist party that her husband, Todd, belonged to for seven years and that she sent a shout-out to as Alaska governor earlier this year. ("Keep up the good work," Palin told AIP members. "And God bless you.")
AIP chairwoman Lynette Clark told me recently that Sarah Palin is her kind of gal. "She's Alaskan to the bone ... she sounds just like Joe Vogler."
So who are these America-haters that the Palins are pallin' around with?
Before his strange murder in 1993, party founder Vogler preached armed insurrection against the United States of America. Vogler, who always carried a Magnum with him, was fond of saying, "When the [federal] bureaucrats come after me, I suggest they wear red coats. They make better targets. In the federal government are the biggest liars in the United States, and I hate them with a passion. They think they own [Alaska]. There comes a time when people will choose to die with honor rather than live with dishonor. That time may be coming here. Our goal is ultimate independence by peaceful means under a minimal government fully responsive to the people. I hope we don't have to take human life, but if they go on tramping on our property rights, look out, we're ready to die."
This quote is from "Coming Into the Country," by John McPhee, who traipsed around Alaska's remote gold mining country with Vogler for his 1991 book. The violent-tempered secessionist vowed to McPhee that if any federal official tried to stop him from polluting Alaska's rivers with his earth-moving equipment, he would "run over him with a Cat and turn mosquitoes loose on him while he dies."
Vogler wasn't just a blowhard either. He put his secessionist ideas into action, working to build AIP membership to 20,000 -- an impressive figure by Alaska standards -- and to elect party member Walter Hickel as governor in 1990.
Vogler's greatest moment of glory was to be his 1993 appearance before the United Nations to denounce United States "tyranny" before the entire world and to demand Alaska's freedom. The Alaska secessionist had persuaded the government of Iran to sponsor his anti-American harangue.
That's right ... Iran. The Islamic dictatorship. The taker of American hostages. The rogue nation that McCain and Palin have excoriated Obama for suggesting we diplomatically engage. That Iran.
AIP leaders allege that Vogler, who was murdered that year by a fellow secessionist, was taken out by powerful forces in the U.S. before he could reach his U.N. platform. "The United States government would have been deeply embarrassed," by Vogler's U.N. speech, darkly suggests Clark. "And we can't have that, can we?"
The Republican ticket is working hard this week to make Barack Obama's tenuous connection to graying, '60s revolutionary Bill Ayers a major campaign issue. But the Palins' connection to anti-American extremism is much more central to their political biographies.
Imagine the uproar if Michelle Obama was revealed to have joined a black nationalist party whose founder preached armed secession from the United States and who enlisted the government of Iran in his cause? The Obama campaign would probably not have survived such an explosive revelation. Particularly if Barack Obama himself was videotaped giving the anti-American secessionists his wholehearted support just months ago.
Where's the outrage, Sarah Palin has been asking this week, in her attacks on Obama's fuzzy ties to Ayers? The question is more appropriate when applied to her own disturbing associations.
Joined: 26 May 2007 {Posts: 427 } Location: San Antonio, Texas
Posted: Fri 10 Oct 2008 21:17 Post subject:
curious wrote:
Are you generalizing Republicans?
Just the ones who are so far to the right, that they've convinced themselves that Sarah Palin would do a better job at the presidency than Hillary Clinton.
October 8, 2008
"I Don't Mess With Black Men"
Palin's Racist Remark
By LINN WASHINGTON, Jr.
It’s that character thing, Sarah Palin declares.
The GOP’s VP candidate defends her increasingly strident verbal assaults on Barack Obama as legitimate questions about the Democratic presidential candidate.
Well, for Charles Greg Royal, it’s that character thing also.
This internationally renowned jazz musician recently utilized the National Press Club in Washington, DC to recount a flirtatious encounter he had in Alaska with a woman who identified herself as Sarah Heath.
Royal said this encounter ended after a racist remark by the woman now known as Gov Sarah Palin.
Making that racist remark, Royal contends, coupled with Gov Palin’s disengaged relations with racial minorities in Alaska speaks volumes about her character.
"When you view what happened with me in the context with what is happening with blacks and other minorities in Alaska under Gov Palin, it is clear that what I encountered was not a fluke. It shows her character," Royal said during an interview hours after that press conference in DC where he directs the American Youth Symphony, Inc.
While that racist remark reflects character, Royal said, the flirtation by a woman who did not reveal at the time that she was both married and pregnant speaks to "mortality and fidelity."
Royal said that in 1990, when performing with the Duke Ellington Band in Anchorage, the trombonist struck up a conversation with a woman at a fast food restaurant who initially identified herself as Sarah. During that conversation, Sarah volunteered that her last name was Heath, Royal said, after he mentioned the acclaimed jazz musician Percy Heath. Palin’s maiden name is Heath.
Royal said the conversation went smoothly until some of his fellow Band members came over to the table. Sarah’s entire demeanor changed.
While Royal is a light skin black man sometimes mistaken as white by whites, his fellow jazzmen causing Heath’s attitude shift were dark skin.
"You could see it...the body language. There was a visceral reaction," said Royal who asked Sarah if something was wrong.
According to Royal, Heath’s response to his inquiry was, "Excuse me, but I don’t mess with black men."
Royal said he told Heath, "I’m a black man" and Sarah responded, "But, you’re not really black."
Royal, who admits trying to "hit on" Sarah, said he ended the conversation telling her not to worry about it and have a nice day.
Royal said he began connecting dots between that encounter 18-years ago and the current GOP VP candidate after watching a biographical report about Palin on television.
"I did not know Palin was the person I spoke with until I saw the MSNBC program," Royal said. "My reaction was Holy Shit!"
When asked how he could possible remember a brief encounter so many years ago, Royal said, "there are a lot of details I do not remember but the key triggers are things anyone could remember and when a person says "I don’t talk to black guys" when the black guys are not actually trying to date you or talk to in anyway that is not a dating comment but a racist one."
Gov Palin’s Press Secretary, Bill McAllister, did not respond to an emailed request for comment on Royal’s claims.
This encounter with Palin that Royal revealed comes at a time of revelations about dissatisfactions voiced by racial minorities in Alaska about the governance policies and practices of Palin, a former mayor of a small city elected as that state’s chief executive two years ago.
Eleanor Andrews, board chair of the Anchorage Urban League, said she is unaware of any programs or outreach to Alaska’s black community by Palin.
"It’s not a disengagement. It’s just no connection. She does not have relations with African Americans," said Andrews, a businesswoman and 44-year resident of Alaska.
While Gov Palin has twice refused to either attend or even formally recognize an official state holiday in Alaska important to African-Americans, she delivered a video-taped address this year for the convention of the Alaskan Independence Party, a group pushing secession of Alaska from the United States. Palin’s husband, Todd, belonged to this Party for seven years.
"People say that when [Palin] took over as governor blacks lost jobs in state government," said attorney Rex Butler. "It seems that the posture of her administration with blacks is: Don’t need them – Don’t worry about them."
Palin, through spokespersons, denies allegations that her record of hiring and retaining racial minorities in government posts compares poorly with her predecessors.
"I’m African-American and I am a big rebuttal to those charges," said Palin Press Secretary Bill McAllister, a former broadcast journalist.
"She is not averse to hiring Africa-Americans," said McAllister who acknowledged that Palin’s office "never" compiled statistics on minorities in her administration.
McAllister joined Palin’s staff in August 2008, a few months after a contentious meeting between Palin and a group of black leaders where her staffing was questioned.
With Palin’s campaign trail criticisms assailing Obama’s former pastor Jeremiah Wright Jr. being anti-white and anti-American, concerns again arise about a line in her RNC acceptance speech. The source of that line is the late writer Westbrook Pegler, a man known for his anti-Semitism, criticism of the 60s Civil Rights Movement and work with notorious segregationist groups.
Although a President Bush speech writer penned Palin’s RNC speech, she never distanced herself from Pegler once the source of that quote became widely known. Yet, Palin incorrectly claims Obama has never distanced himself from 60s-era radical Bill Ayers – the man she terms a domestic terrorist.
Racially tinged reactions at McCain-Palin rallies have made news recently. A person at a Palin rally in Fort Myers, Fl told a black television technician to "Sit down Boy" during outbursts following a Palin tirade against the media.
Royal says he’s "not political" although he admits favoring Obama. But Royal says he decided to reveal his encounter with Palin because he felt it was a factoid of some may find significant when considering the Palin candidacy.
"I feel that Palin is a very narrow viewed and culturally unsophisticated person who clearly has not seen the world or its diverse peoples," Royal said.
"The racism I believe she possesses is not necessarily from a misguided hatred but from a boastful ignorance that clearly celebrates the need not to know or the desire to know."
Linn Washington Jr. is a columnist for The Philadelphia Tribune.
Posted: Sat 11 Oct 2008 05:40 Post subject: Re: Sarah's not a One Dropper, at least
Richard Miller wrote:
Helena21 wrote:
But white people are the ones one-dropping Obama. So it turns out that you were wrong - Blacks aren't the ONLY ones who one-drop, haha.
Face it - white folks will never accept you as white, you old geezer. DEAL WITH IT!
It's been years since I've seen Powell give someone a virtual ass-whoopin'; something though you'd have definitely been in for back in the day.
But that's okay, I got you if you wanna do this.
Oh boy...
Quote:
“other minorities” (like Palin’s husband I assume)
I don't think Palin's husband is a minority. He's pretty much white (1/8 Alaskan native I think, comparable to a lot of the NA ancestry of African Americans)
Boy, I tell you - I have never in my life seen so many NRA members of color (or those who may as well be) in one place until I came to this site...
As far as I know the only two here are “Other” and me, though until now I haven't mentioned being a member. I suppose you're assuming ALL Republicans or “conservatives” are NRA members and only Republicans are members of the NRA.
BTW, I know many NRA members of color. Most are apolitical or Democrats. You need to get out more. There are a lot of them out there.
Joined: 24 Sep 2008 {Posts: 102 } Location: Santiago, DR
Posted: Sun 12 Oct 2008 05:34 Post subject: Re: Sarah's not a One Dropper, at least
Helena21 wrote:
But white people are the ones one-dropping Obama. So it turns out that you were wrong - Blacks aren't the ONLY ones who one-drop, haha.
Face it - white folks will never accept you as white, you old geezer. DEAL WITH IT!
Hey I'm white and I say who cares?????
I would like to add that I don't think people of any color should worry that they might not be accepted by others. In this case if a person is black or mixed, why would they care if some racist white person likes them or will see them as equal to white?
Take the moral high road and ignore such frivolous people.
Believe it or not, even though I am white I also experienced much prejudice and ostracizing due to at first my small size and then my strong Catholic beliefs. If you think this is inconsequential I would disagree as I was beaten and ridiculed from my early teens up until I was 30 years. Frequently I was left out of conversations at work, etc. and openly called homosexual because I wouldn't talk about sex with women. This was troubling to say the least and caused me to have low self confidence in public, however, I always knew the most important thing was that God loved me and I should put up with it because it was right.
Now that I am 43 years old I no longer have self confidence problems, no doubt because of maturity, being married for 8 years and having three daughters.
In a nutshell, people should not lend credibility to prejudice ideas by paying attention to them. The fact is God has made all men in his image and we are the same in his eyes - he has no preferences. For every door that closes because of an injustice, another one opens.
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