The Study of Racialism

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }

What is the meaning of this Arabic image showing a black skinned Aristotle? Was Aristotle Black? Did he have lots and lots of drops of African blood? Did he have African ancestors? Were they SSA or Caucasian? What might have been his skull index? Would his looks make other Africans consider him one of theirs? Would people come up to him and ask where he was from? Or ask him when the hell he will be going back to Africa? Was dear Aristotle a real person, or a publishing company?

Date/Time Thumbnail Dimensions User Comment
current 01:07, 10 February 2006 1,064×1,563 (620 KB) Laurascudder (Talk | contribs) (Aristotle teaching, from document in the British Library. From: {{book reference|Title=Islamic Science: An Illustrated Study| Author=Seyyed Hossein Nasr|Publisher=World of Islam Festival Publishing Ltd.|Year=1976| ID=ISBN 090503502X}} [[Category:Aristotle])

Source: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Arabic_aristotle.jpg

G-Man · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 }

It isn't clear from that picture that the darker of the two is supposed to be Aristotle.

divana · Posted: Sun 19 Oct 2008 10:05 Post subject:

But no one was black or white back then right?

fwsweet · Posted: Sun 19 Oct 2008 13:14 Post subject:

divana · Posted: Mon 20 Oct 2008 00:43 Post subject:

onlyhuman77 · Posted: Mon 20 Oct 2008 18:36 Post subject:

This could just be my thinking but knowing an ancient historical figure's phenotype such as Aristotle has little influence on me suddenly taking an interest in that person.

G-Man · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 }

For some people that makes him worth knowing about.

onlyhuman77 · Posted: Mon 20 Oct 2008 18:58 Post subject:

abu isabella · New User Joined: 21 Oct 2008 {Posts: 25 }

Aristotle lived from 384 BC – 322 BC. This manuscript is an Islamic document so it comes from the 600's AD at the very oldest. So it was drawn at least 900+ years after Aristotle died.

Here is a more contemporary sculpture of him, complete with info about the sculpture and Aristotle.

abu isabella · New User Joined: 21 Oct 2008 {Posts: 25 }

This is the site it came from.
picasaweb.google.com/.../2dRbxldxJDR7hFwpmRNC4w

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }

[Plato and Aristotle by Raphael (1511)]

There is a noticeable difference in colour between these two men. See more of the whole image below. There were perhaps traditions that Aristotle was Black of skin. Snowden wrote in 'Blacks in Antiquity' about Classical definitions of Blacks and images of Blacks in the Greek, Roman and Early Christian World. Did he include images of Aristotle? I was familiar with 'snub-nosed' and 'black skinned' images of Socrates, but Aristotle is new to me. Interesting, all these (seemingly) Blacks cornering the Philosophy market!

detail http://lh4.ggpht.com/_FGGA3FhV9xo/SJRllv8tNnI/AAAAAAAABK8/RYq2jOkTzMA/Vatican+Museum+-Aristotle+and+Plato+2.JPG

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }

fwsweet

G-Man · Moderator Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 2992 }

Umm, still trying to figure out which of the two in the Islamic/Arabic depiction is supposed to be Aristotle.

onlyhuman77 · Posted: Wed 22 Oct 2008 20:47 Post subject:

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }

[Aristotle]

It's a good thing onlyhuman77 uses the word 'I' eight times in his last posting, so it's clear he is only speaking for himself.

The idea that one would only take interest in a celebrity because he is from the same race is racist. Yet I have studied photographs of Black American artist where they look White and blond. Nat King Cole, was according to a documentary, obliged by the producers to wear white make up in his short lived TV Show. To me it looks that these Black artist do not want to frighten away White fans with their Black looks.

Not to want to discuss the possibility that Aristotle might have been, what we came to call Black, strikes me as strange. For me the bottom-line would be to have as many as possible people to take interest in Aristotle, by all means necessary.

Lastly a little word of caution to other users. Their is a lot of deception going on on the internet, like people presenting a totally fake identity to the world. They seem to get their rocks off when they have fooled you and tripped you up. At another site someone is using twenty nicks at the same time.

Source image: http://www.cnr.edu/home/bmcmanus/poetics.html

BLACK OR WHITE?

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=15;t=000663

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }

Frank M. Snowden, Blacks in Antiquity, Harvard University press, Massachusetts, 1970 offers the name of Aristotle on six pages, but nothing about his looks or a portrait. Socrates is not even listed.

Still it might be of interest to learn from this work that Aristotle and Pliny preserved a Greek proverb ´Africa is always producing something new.´ Aristotle commented on slavery and justified it on the basis of innate differences and capabilities of individuals. However this should be understood in the Hellenistic sense which emphasized a cultural rather than a racial difference.

Aristotle attributes the straight hair of the Scythians and Thracians to a fluid, moist atmosphere and the woolly hair of Ethiops, meaning Black Africans in general, to their dry environments.

Along with several notes on the Ethiops we can say that the average Greek had a well known knowledge of this physical type. Aristotle made references to race mixture between Greeks and Ethiops. If I understand well he was the first of many. In Classic Literature, Plutarch and Pliney were like Aristotle interested in the transmission of the physical characters of descendent of Black/White crosses. But they included nothing regarding certain modern strictures on miscegenation.

onlyhuman77 · Posted: Thu 23 Oct 2008 18:22 Post subject:

Egmond Codfried · Suspended Joined: 03 Jul 2008 {Posts: 242 }