Joined: 07 Oct 2007 {Posts: 248 } Location: United States
Posted: Wed 11 Mar 2009 05:59 Post subject:
G-Man wrote:
Grasshoppa wrote:
I know some white guys who would only date the finest, finest black girls.
If only black guys would do this with white women.....I kid, well sort of.
Well, I won't single out white women, but I would not pursue a woman who I perceive to be less attractive than myself. Perhaps these black guys who chase these below average non-black women have a similar feeling, and do not think these women are below their standards, but just at the standard level? Or maybe it is the tired (but possibly true in this case) feeling of self hate?
Always go for the gold or platinum. That's what I say. Rusty brass and copper must never do.
There would be a lot fewer people in the world is this advice was taken to heart!
lol true
I think it's still a truth that men always have a woman that looks better than them.
A man at point 5 ugliness will have a woman with point 3-1 ugliness
We'll never see the opposite of Jermaine Dupre & Janet Jackson
I would have agreed, but I've lately been seeing alot of average looking dudes, with some really beat women. <---usually beat looking because they don't look like they care about their looks, and the women are usually obese.
Then again, the folks that I see like this "look" low income, if that makes any sense, so maybe that has something to do with it. Oddly enough, it seems this is the case more so with AA males, and those coupled with white women as well as black women. I also think that white males more often than other races of males, have girls more attractive than themselves, especially if it is interracial. For example, in most cases, when I see a WM/BF couple, the black female is imo very attractive whereas the white male is average. Of course, this is based on what I perceive as attractiveness though.
I've only seen that in AAmale/Other-female interracial relationships
AA/AA couples the woman always looks better than the man
In more 'rural' lower income white couples the women can be worse looking than the man,
Obese or overweight isn't considered unattractive, In most cases I've seen overweight AA women who really care for their looks whereas white overweight women don't always put much into their looks.
Of course that always depends on region as well... Urban overweight women tend to care for their looks more than suburban or rural
For example, in most cases, when I see a WM/BF couple, the black female is imo very attractive whereas the white male is average. Of course, this is based on what I perceive as attractiveness though.
I'd find it more surprising to see a really attractive man with an unattractive woman in any ethnic combination. It's terrible but I always think to myself "wow how'd she pull that?" An ex, who was really hung up on looks, used to say that less attractive women work harder to keep their men because they have fewer options.
I don't think extra weight categorically makes a woman unattractive but it certainly does by Western and East Asian cultural standards.
Most of the BF/WM couples I've seen are an attractive combination. Sometimes stunningly so, like Markus Schenkenberger and Robin Givens back in the day or Halle and her man. To me, most people are not extremely attractive or extremely unattractive, just somewhere in that vast middle range, so the slight differences in attractiveness don't really stand out. Now if Steve Buscemi pulled Sanaa Lathan...
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Thu 12 Mar 2009 11:05 Post subject:
[quote="sagascend"]
Grasshoppa wrote:
Now if Steve Buscemi pulled Sanaa Lathan...
Bad visuals!!!
Seriously, Steve Buscemi could do that if he was rich (he is) and Sanaa Lathan was poor and open minded, I don't think most people would bat and eye...some women haters might comment about how she is a gold digger, but that type of situation is common. In the past it was not a negative, it was a "good catch".
This goes back to some basic evolutionary psychology. Donald Trump constantly marries models because of his status. As his current wife said when questioned about this "Do you think he would marry me if I didn't look like this????"
It is odd for people to see a man with a less attractive women because what people feel is he "married down", not just in class (which is not usual for a man to do) but looks (unusual for a man to do).
Women rarely marry down in class (usually the same or higher) but they often marry down in look, because I think men are just more visual and objectify women more on appearance. This is true just about everywhere.
There are two things I think about in the situation with black males/white women and white women/black males.
In my experience white males I see with black women are usually with "foreign black women" Africans and Carribean women. I've seen this a lot, maybe about 1/3 of black women I see with black males in places I have lived are with foreign black women.
The American black women they are with are usually about the same social class as them from what I can tell by behavior, dress, etc. The thing that strikes me the most is that the women usually are dark.
In my much younger days I would also noticed that "interracial porn" (wm/bm) is usually also showing dark skin black women. I'm guessing this has something to do with being exotic.
I would say also the black women I see in these relationships are not "fine" in a African American sense, but just average looking.
Black men and white women, the thing that stands out is most of the women tend to be about the same class as the men (often low class). So the women are often overweight, and people make a big deal about this, but in reality, the average low class black man will be with a low class black woman who is also overweight.
I do think there is often a premium placed on "light skin" by many (if not most) black males, so a white woman doesn't have to look as good as a comparable black women, because she is "white". You could also say a light skin black women doesn't have to look as good as a dark skin black woman.
My grandfather used to call "less attractive" light-skinned women "redbone gone to waste"... unless they were creole, then they were just the best women.
None of this is shocking to me though. I've spent a lot of time around East Asian people in America and in East Asia. It is often that East Asian women marry out with white males. Asian men usually tell me (at least Japanese and Chinese men) that those women who get with "foreigners" are not attractive anyway. If you look at the standard of beauty in those nations and compare it to here, then that is true.
Actresses like Lucy Liu or Sandra Oh are not considered attractive in East Asia and would only be on TV in comedies. I've heard many white men remark on how "hot" Lucy Liu is (or at least was a few years back). Most of my Chinese friends (from China) think she is just "plain" or "below average".
If you question them further they will say these women are "dark", they have eyes that are "too small", they look "old", maybe even "too sexy...no cute". They like women like this:
My point with this is different ethnicity have different standards of beauty. There are some things that are universal, but after you get beyond basic symmetry, hip-waste ratio, height...everything else seems subjective and varies a lot by culture.
Seriously, Steve Buscemi could do that if he was rich (he is) and Sanaa Lathan was poor and open minded
LOL I tried to stay away from class and money since both make physically unattractive people extremely attractive mates, especially high status men. That's par for the course in any ethnicity. And of course people trade on whatever gives them status (looks, class, wealth). But if you consider this celebrity couple, a relatively equal status match, then I think it'd be an unusual one.
There is an alternate biological scenario that is desirable for women: The smart/funny/emphathetic man (who seems like he'd be a great dad). Perhaps this type of man traditionally only got a shot when the physically dominant, high testorone males killed themselves off (and now can be a poor mate to a woman who doesn't need to seek a man's money or physical protection, but seeks companionship), but I can tell you that if Steve was such a guy then the pairing would make a lot of sense and would cease to be remarkable.
Joined: 02 May 2006 {Posts: 443 } Location: Īle-de-France
Posted: Thu 12 Mar 2009 15:13 Post subject:
Quote:
Bad visuals!!!
Whats bad about 'em?
But seriously, coupling is based on so many factors. What is really going on is very hard to pin down. In men, I would bet testosterone levels correlate much less with one of the traditional measures of attractiveness than we think: height. Take Nicholas Sarkozy, the guy is only 5'5", but he is extremely driven and always has an attractive woman 3-5 inches taller than him as a significant other. His status is obviously part of his attractiveness, but he was not born with that status by any means, it was other traits plus luck that caused him to attain that status.
I've only seen that in AAmale/Other-female interracial relationships
AA/AA couples the woman always looks better than the man
True...But in my experience, I'd limit this to black men/white women couplings. In my experience, this rule doesn't apply to black men and non-black women who are not white.
Note that I'm talking relationships here, as in being seen in public together, etc. Clandestine black male/white female hook-ups may indeed involve a more attractive white woman who would not be open to an emotional, public relationship but is open to satifying her curiosity and sexual urges. Think Lenny Kravitz and his fleeting sexual liaison with Kate Hudson. You'd be surprised how often this happens in the U.S.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Thu 12 Mar 2009 18:31 Post subject:
G-Man wrote:
gemini072 wrote:
I've only seen that in AAmale/Other-female interracial relationships
AA/AA couples the woman always looks better than the man
True...But in my experience, I'd limit this to black men/white women couplings. In my experience, this rule doesn't apply to black men and non-black women who are not white.
Note that I'm talking relationships here, as in being seen in public together, etc. Clandestine black male/white female hook-ups may indeed involve a more attractive white woman who would not be open to an emotional, public relationship but is open to satifying her curiosity and sexual urges. Think Lenny Kravitz and his fleeting sexual liaison with Kate Hudson. You'd be surprised how often this happens in the U.S.
In my experience with this, it is usually married white women who are in their late 30's and early 40's who act like this.
These are the same women going to Caribbean to get with young black males in Jamaican, Bahamas, while on vacation.
Yeah, but even in those cases with Euro and American white women, it's still out in the open in whatever Caribbean location they find themselves in, though they'd probably not want their sexual escapades made public in their own communities.
Here in the U.S. there are younger white women who engage in these kinds of sexual relationships but are much more discreet about them. I have many stories to tell, but none from personal experience.
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 {Posts: 248 } Location: United States
Posted: Tue 17 Mar 2009 08:57 Post subject:
Quote:
I would say also the black women I see in these relationships are not "fine" in a African American sense, but just average looking.
Time and time again (like today for example) I see only black women who are way above average with white guys. <---The kicker is that physically the white guy is average or perhaps slightly above average in looks imo. I can count on one hand the amount of times that this was not so. On average I'd say that the average white guy could pull a better looking black girl than the average black guy. Of course this is the opinion of a 20 year old and i'm talking mostly about people in their late teens or early 20's. In BM/BF couples in which the female is a catch, the male is just as much a catch. <---I base it on how attractive I see myself compared to how attractive the male is in the relationship.
I've noticed that black girls in those IR relationships tend to be darkskinned more often than not, and I agree that many look like they're from African countries. Very few are stereotypically African American; what some would call hood or ghetto. <--- I will probably not be involved in a serious relationship with those "hood" girls. I've had some bad experiences and I feel like I'm just not on that same social level <----the point where i'm turned off by these types (and that applies to hood girls of any race, which i've also encountered). I like the ones many would say "act white," and i hate that phrase.[/quote]
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 17 Mar 2009 11:05 Post subject:
Grasshoppa wrote:
Quote:
I would say also the black women I see in these relationships are not "fine" in a African American sense, but just average looking.
Time and time again (like today for example) I see only black women who are way above average with white guys. <---The kicker is that physically the white guy is average or perhaps slightly above average in looks imo. I can count on one hand the amount of times that this was not so. On average I'd say that the average white guy could pull a better looking black girl than the average black guy. Of course this is the opinion of a 20 year old and i'm talking mostly about people in their late teens or early 20's. In BM/BF couples in which the female is a catch, the male is just as much a catch. <---I base it on how attractive I see myself compared to how attractive the male is in the relationship.
I've noticed that black girls in those IR relationships tend to be darkskinned more often than not, and I agree that many look like they're from African countries. Very few are stereotypically African American; what some would call hood or ghetto. <--- I will probably not be involved in a serious relationship with those "hood" girls. I've had some bad experiences and I feel like I'm just not on that same social level <----the point where i'm turned off by these types (and that applies to hood girls of any race, which i've also encountered). I like the ones many would say "act white," and i hate that phrase.
[/quote]
Can you give an example of "hood or ghetto" in appearance?
are you saying if a black woman is not dark skinned and appears to be from Africa she looks "ghetto"?
This would be equivalent of saying if a white woman doesn't look like she is from Europe and very pale she is "white trash".
Do you think the average black women in America looks "ghetto"?
Do you think in America historically or even now that a dark skin black women who looks like she is from Africa would rated higher on attractiveness (like in a poll) than Beyonce?
Do you think in America historically or even now that a dark skin black women who looks like she is from Africa would rated higher on attractiveness (like in a poll) than Beyonce?
Of course not. But why would you compare a global celebrity to a no-name "dark skin black woman?" I wouldn't compare Angelina Jolie to a hypothetical, generic "light skinned white woman who looks like she's from Europe" and expect a fair comparison.
In an apples-to-apples comparison I'd be interested to see the results myself.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 17 Mar 2009 16:32 Post subject:
sagascend wrote:
Dragon Horse wrote:
Do you think in America historically or even now that a dark skin black women who looks like she is from Africa would rated higher on attractiveness (like in a poll) than Beyonce?
Of course not. But why would you compare a global celebrity to a no-name "dark skin black woman?" I wouldn't compare Angelina Jolie to a hypothetical, generic "light skinned white woman who looks like she's from Europe" and expect a fair comparison.
In an apples-to-apples comparison I'd be interested to see the results myself.
My point is general and it is not mystery that "light complected women" are still favored in the black community (well I would say in most communities, but it is relative to how dark the people are).
That was not my main point though...the point was what was stated before made little sense to me and was subjective in a odd way (at least to me)...so I ask some questions and tried to play out some scenarios based on what was written.
I took the post to mean that most black women are ghetto and therefore unattractive and the white males tend to get the most attractive black women and those women are dark skinned and look African.
If my interpretation is correct, I would imagine many black American men would not think white men are getting the "most attractive black women", because "African" stereotypical look is not the norm of beauty in the African American community. Also it implies that attractive "black" women are dark and look African (as if no lighter ones are attractive and if they are they are likely ghetto).
I took the post to mean that most black women are ghetto and therefore unattractive and the white males tend to get the most attractive black women and those women are dark skinned and look African.
If my interpretation is correct, I would imagine many black American men would not think white men are getting the "most attractive black women", because "African" stereotypical look is not the norm of beauty in the African American community. Also it implies that attractive "black" women are dark and look African (as if no lighter ones are attractive and if they are they are likely ghetto).
Hmm I didn't take it that way. I thought he was trying to say that he wasn't attracted to what he deems a "ghetto" A-A woman and that phenotype had nothing to do with it, but that idea was a part of the same paragraph mentioning that he thought that a lot of BF/WM couples paired up a darkskinned "African looking" woman with a "Euro-looking" man. I kind of agree with that, especially in Europe. What I've been told by White guys who find Black women attractive is that they are actually attracted to the features that are often maligned in cultures across the world - dark skin, coiled hair, dark eyes, etc. Even if they aren't specifically seeking women out because of these features, they seem to appreciate them for what they are when found on a women they are attracted to.
I think men are men when it comes to how they regard "their women". You might agree that the Asian women that are considered attractive here are "leftovers" in the eyes of lots of Asian men. White men seem to snicker behind their backs when they see Black men go for White women they think are unattractive (i.e., too thick, not that pretty in the face) but get bent out of shape when they see a really hot White chick with a Black guy. I have heard the same Black men who snicker about Venus Williams and Whoopi Goldberg suck their teeth when it comes to Naomi Campbell and even post-Mike Tyson Robin Givens dating White guys. Then it's "they're taking the good ones." Now that more and more Black women of a certain education level etc. seem to be open to dating non-Black men (not that many but it is growing steadily), I hear a lot of teeth being sucked by men who feel like the "White boys" are making inroads with "their women." I can't stand it when men or women take ethnic ownership of the opposite sex, but it is especially galling to hear it when the people doing it see no problem dating out themselves.
Edit: Come to think of it, I have shocked quite a few Black men who are used to hearing Black women go out of their way to describe how unattractive "White boys" are to them (but when it comes to private girl talk it's always another matter ). Whether I was dating a White guy or not I saw no reason to pretend like a White male celebrity or White guy at work wasn't attractive to me because of his phenotype, but that's the script I was expected to follow.
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 {Posts: 248 } Location: United States
Posted: Wed 18 Mar 2009 00:34 Post subject:
Dragon Horse wrote:
Can you give an example of "hood or ghetto" in appearance?
An example based on appearance would be limited to style of dress. That's not the biggest indicator of "hoodness" or "ghettoness" though; the biggest is speech and attitude.
Quote:
are you saying if a black woman is not dark skinned and appears to be from Africa she looks "ghetto"?
LOL! No. What I've noticed is that alot of those black girls with white guys are very West African looking. They might not necessarily be from an African country, but many are dark complected and often African looking imo.
The correlation was a social one. I should have made the distinction, that those with white guys were probably a little or completely removed from other African Americans culturally<----And there IS a clear African American subculture at the young adult age especially from my experience. I brought up the possibilty of these girls being African because I would expect many Africans to be removed from this AA subculture due to different backgrounds.
Quote:
Do you think the average black women in America looks "ghetto"?
Lets talk about what I meant when I said "ghetto" or "hood." I don't necessarily mean trashy. I mean they look like they're into all that thug love and they wear very urban clothing. From experience they tend to have attitude problems. <---that is my opinion. Imo many black young females match this stereotype. When they don't, I'm pleasantly surprised, and this is coming from an African American male.
Quote:
Do you think in America historically or even now that a dark skin black women who looks like she is from Africa would rated higher on attractiveness (like in a poll) than Beyonce?
I made sure that I placed an "imo" to indicate that attractiveness was based on MY opinion. I don't even really have much of a preference for African looking girls, but those that these white guys pull are very attractive imo.
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 {Posts: 248 } Location: United States
Posted: Wed 18 Mar 2009 00:43 Post subject:
Quote:
I can't stand it when men or women take ethnic ownership of the opposite sex, but it is especially galling to hear it when the people doing it see no problem dating out themselves.
Just so it's clear, I'm not one of those. I much too open to IR dating to be like that. It was just an observation. I'm not mad. If anything it's refreshing to see, and I'd want these girls regardless of who they're dating.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1829 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 18 Mar 2009 02:12 Post subject:
Grasshoppa wrote:
Dragon Horse wrote:
Can you give an example of "hood or ghetto" in appearance?
An example based on appearance would be limited to style of dress. That's not the biggest indicator of "hoodness" or "ghettoness" though; the biggest is speech and attitude.
Quote:
are you saying if a black woman is not dark skinned and appears to be from Africa she looks "ghetto"?
LOL! No. What I've noticed is that alot of those black girls with white guys are very West African looking. They might not necessarily be from an African country, but many are dark complected and often African looking imo.
The correlation was a social one. I should have made the distinction, that those with white guys were probably a little or completely removed from other African Americans culturally<----And there IS a clear African American subculture at the young adult age especially from my experience. I brought up the possibilty of these girls being African because I would expect many Africans to be removed from this AA subculture due to different backgrounds.
Quote:
Do you think the average black women in America looks "ghetto"?
Lets talk about what I meant when I said "ghetto" or "hood." I don't necessarily mean trashy. I mean they look like they're into all that thug love and they wear very urban clothing. From experience they tend to have attitude problems. <---that is my opinion. Imo many black young females match this stereotype. When they don't, I'm pleasantly surprised, and this is coming from an African American male.
Quote:
Do you think in America historically or even now that a dark skin black women who looks like she is from Africa would rated higher on attractiveness (like in a poll) than Beyonce?
I made sure that I placed an "imo" to indicate that attractiveness was based on MY opinion. I don't even really have much of a preference for African looking girls, but those that these white guys pull are very attractive imo.
Thank you for responding, I have no issues with what you meant...now that it was clarified.
'
FAQ
Search
Register
Log in
Bad visuals!!!
