Joined: 19 Jun 2005 {Posts: 49 } Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Tue 17 Mar 2009 06:28 Post subject: An Identity Crisis: The Black Divide
Strange as it may seem, and perhaps it’s just a baseless observation, but I’ve noticed particularly over the past 5 to 7 years that many individuals who have a strong Negroid phenotype have been resorting to undergoing all types of changes in their physical appearance to appear less “black” (or perhaps even mixed), so to speak. Some examples include (straight) hair weaves, nose jobs, lip reductions, skin lightening (sessions) and in extreme cases, maxillofacial (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery) surgery in one form or another.
The interesting part is that in many (of what appear to be) noticeable cases, their identity crisis still comes down to skin complexion, grammar, diction and upbringing. As an individual of noticeable mixed race, ancestry and ethnic origin, I find this (frequent obsession) to be quite sad, to say the least. That said; one might think that the American “black” community at large needs to reflect more effectively on its destiny. Without a clear and concise understanding of its own role and purpose in life, it may be eternally relegated to the most obscure regions the self-hate and/or innocuous ignorance that permeate the black body politic.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1828 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Tue 17 Mar 2009 11:01 Post subject:
Uhm...I'm in the top 5% of income earners in the U.S. and I do associate with blacks of the same class who could afford some plastic surgery. I have never seen or heard of this. Could you provide some statistics to show how frequent this is? Many studies have shown blacks have higher self esteem than whites (well at least women, on average), so I find this odd (also the fact I've never seen or heard of it in frequencies that would be significant, as in more than one person).
Also, where do you live? I ask because this could be regional.
Straight hair did not start in the last 5-7 years. One of the first black millionaire, Madam C. J. Walker I'm aware of got rich off of black "hair products" almost 100 years ago. In some areas of the country, professional black women feel they have no choice, as they may face discrimination in the work place (depending on industry) for not having straight hair. Did Martin Luther King's wife have an afro?
Then again I still know of one law firm in DC that pretty much has an unwritten rule that associate attorneys do not wear pants (the females) but skirts. I also know there was an unwritten rule at the Pentagon until the mid to late 1980's that was the same...so hair discrimination at conservative business places is not shocking. Many still associate "natural" hair styles with 60's or 70's militarism.
Bernadette Gray-Little, a professor of psychology at the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, writing with graduate student Adam Hafdahl, performed a complex review of every piece of research available on black self-esteem, 261 studies in all. Other scholars have attempted similar projects, but this study stands out for its scope and statistical rigor.
"There have been inconsistencies in the results of the studies on this topic over time," says the UNC professor, who insists she entered the project with no political agenda. "I wanted to see if I could find any basis for a firm conclusion. And if inconsistencies occurred, I wanted to know when and why."
The broad trends she discerned are fairly straightforward. Before age 10, whites slightly surpass blacks in self-esteem. Everyone takes a big self-esteem hit in junior high. After that, blacks narrowly but consistently surpass whites, through age 21, the upper limit of the study.
There are also reports of studies that show black women specifically are more confident and happy about their body size and shape than most other races of women.
Quote:
The interesting part is that in many (of what appear to be) noticeable cases, their identity crisis still comes down to skin complexion, grammar, diction and upbringing.
Joined: 19 Jun 2005 {Posts: 49 } Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posted: Wed 18 Mar 2009 05:11 Post subject:
As stated, these are merely observations and opinions and certainly nothing for anyone to get bent out of shape over. One visit to Southern California should provide anyone with the answers to your questions. All said.
Joined: 07 Feb 2007 {Posts: 1828 } Location: Lookin DC Metro, Feelin Geneva
Posted: Wed 18 Mar 2009 10:40 Post subject:
MrSolo wrote:
As stated, these are merely observations and opinions and certainly nothing for anyone to get bent out of shape over. One visit to Southern California should provide anyone with the answers to your questions. All said.
That's fine. I just want it to be clear that your comments and observations do not necessarily reflect a community of nearly 40 million people as the vast majority of black Americans don't live in SOCAL.
There are also reports of studies that show black women specifically are more confident and happy about their body size and shape than most other races of women.
Now that is interesting. Was your source the Gray-Little meta-study? If so, I believe that the upper age limit of her subjects was 21. Do you know if anyone has tracked this into adulthood?
[I agree with her critics, incidentally, that "self-esteem" is too fuzzy a concept to fall with the realm of science. Its only objective definition is how teenagers answer a "self-esteem" question and, in my experience, some of the most disruptive ignoramusses in the classroom have the highest overweening "self-esteem".]
Posted: Wed 18 Mar 2009 15:20 Post subject: Re: An Identity Crisis: The Black Divide
MrSolo wrote:
Strange as it may seem, and perhaps it’s just a baseless observation, but I’ve noticed particularly over the past 5 to 7 years that many individuals who have a strong Negroid phenotype have been resorting to undergoing all types of changes in their physical appearance to appear less “black” (or perhaps even mixed), so to speak. Some examples include (straight) hair weaves, nose jobs, lip reductions, skin lightening (sessions) and in extreme cases, maxillofacial (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery) surgery in one form or another.
The interesting part is that in many (of what appear to be) noticeable cases, their identity crisis still comes down to skin complexion, grammar, diction and upbringing. As an individual of noticeable mixed race, ancestry and ethnic origin, I find this (frequent obsession) to be quite sad, to say the least. That said; one might think that the American “black” community at large needs to reflect more effectively on its destiny. Without a clear and concise understanding of its own role and purpose in life, it may be eternally relegated to the most obscure regions the self-hate and/or innocuous ignorance that permeate the black body politic.
Right, and white women want to appear more "black" by getting a tan, injecting their lips with collagen, putting in braids/afro styles in their hair...
Joined: 07 Oct 2007 {Posts: 248 } Location: United States
Posted: Sun 05 Apr 2009 01:04 Post subject: Re: An Identity Crisis: The Black Divide
MrSolo wrote:
Strange as it may seem, and perhaps it�s just a baseless observation, but I�ve noticed particularly over the past 5 to 7 years that many individuals who have a strong Negroid phenotype have been resorting to undergoing all types of changes in their physical appearance to appear less �black� (or perhaps even mixed), so to speak. Some examples include (straight) hair weaves, nose jobs, lip reductions, skin lightening (sessions) and in extreme cases, maxillofacial (e.g., http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oral_and_maxillofacial_surgery) surgery in one form or another.
The only thing I might agree on is nose jobs. When black people get surgery, it seems the nose is the first thing to change. Lips, on the other hand, i disagree with. Many black women with full lips probably have no interest in lip reductions, as full lips are kind of "in" when it comes to beauty nowadays.
Hair is a different subject. It is understandable that black women would buy weaves and perms for the mere fact that long hair is associated with feminity. In our culture, we are taught from a young age that women have long hair and men have short. I think the majority of men have at least a slight preference for longer hair, so it's understandable that some would invest in hair products and services to compete.
Quote:
That said; one might think that the American �black� community at large needs to reflect more effectively on its destiny. Without a clear and concise understanding of its own role and purpose in life, it may be eternally relegated to the most obscure regions the self-hate and/or innocuous ignorance that permeate the black body politic.
What is the American black community's "destiny"? That is confusing to me. What is the American black community's purpose and role in life, and how is it differnent from the roles and purposes of other ethnic groups? Be more concise.
Uhm...I'm in the top 5% of income earners in the U.S.
First off, can I get a loan?
Secondly, I have seen the trend that MrSolo referred to, but I see it occurring in all kinds of people. The more I find out about who has had botox, rhinoplasty, tummy tuck, skin lightening, breast augmentation, butt implants, lip injections, etc., etc., etc., the more I realize that A LOT of people have gone CRAAAAAZZZZYYYYYY!
Some darker skinned women (African, Indian, etc.) lighten their skin. Some mulatto women have the width of their noses reduced. Some white women inject booty fat into their lips. We can't all look like Halle Berry, but lots of women sure to try.
This just in...rumor has it, even Halle Berry doesn't look like Halle Berry, naturally.
'
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