so lets move on...was it logical to assume this boy was checking your son's racial pedigree...or questioning it...or asking for justification for his attempt to act black...I don't think a 11 year old was really trying to get that deep...but in the same way, if I say "git the --- outta here" and the personjust told me their house burnt down...and they immediately get up and walk away hurt...then it is up to me to explaon what I meant if I care about that person.
The young man criticized my son's dance moves using racialized and inflammatory language. There's no doubt that people talk the way that they talk. There is much to be said for learning to communicate effectively though. There is no misinterpretation of this boy's words going on here. If this young man didn't mean anything racial by it, he would have left the racial talk out and focused solely on the dance. The racial animosity was quite clear. This young man was essentially communicating two major points,
1. you can't dance!
2. I have a problem with white people
Deep thinking on this boy's part isn't required to express either of these things.
Posted: Thu 11 Oct 2007 20:54 Post subject: Re: Did you?
Monica wrote:
Mixedmom said....Would you also tell him to "Go back to your white family!"?
On a side note, this dance is way too much for me. I'm still stuck in the '80s. Give me the B-52's any day!!
ROCK LOBSTER!!!!
Why might the kid have told him to go back to his white family...depends on how "weird" he might have reacted after being critiqued on his Souljah Boy...the souljah boy something that basicly everyone does in a light hearted fashion...was your son really trying hard ...I'm sorry I had to laugh at my own words...
Did you used to go to the club and when that part of Rock lobster played...you laid on the floor and withered...that was a fun song..
I only dance in my car when no one else is with me. I've not been to a club since I was in my early 20's and even then, I seldom ever went. I CAN'T DANCE!!!! Maybe this is where my son gets it from but hey, at least the kid tries! I use to look at a lot of music videos.
The "Go back to your white family" comment was part of the initial comments used to criticize my son's "dancing" The criticism and racial comments occurred all in one slam dunk.
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 00:51 Post subject: Re: Answers
Monica wrote:
Other said...I just can't imagine what I had done in first grade to cause the black girls in the class to chant oreo or salt and pepper at me.
Okay...lets think this through rationally...whats an oreo...a black cookie with white cream on the INSIDE....you don't look like a black cookie so could it be...instead of deep racial hatred...they were just name calling based on something they thought they heard or understood...like kids calling each other "doo-key"
Could it have been that you cried instead of "snapping back"...I got the shock of my life as a young mom..one day I was squeezing my sons lips together (he had the fattest lil lips) mindlessly I was saying he had hot dog lips...he was still small enuf for me to hold in my arms and i'll never forget he looked at me with a devilish grin and told me I looked like a dalmation dog ( cause I have a face full of freckles)...I was so taken back (and hurt, LOL)...I never talked about my son's lips again.
Oh, OK. I see where the misunderstanding is. I never said the black girls called me oreo and salt and pepper out of "deep racial hatred" and I really don't think that was it at all. They were, quite obviously though, teasing me because I was mixed.
If you'll look back at my original post, I started off by saying, "I'm not sure I think of it as abuse, but I have been teased or mistreated by a few black people in my life. Nothing too extreme."
As for my reaction to their teasing, as I recall I just ignored them.
I was just about to log into MySpace when I saw this 54 year old Soulja Dad video. Naturally, I thought about the conversation between MixedMom and Monica.
So, this is for anyone who is interested, but especially for Monica. Enjoy.
Posted: Fri 12 Oct 2007 14:35 Post subject: Good Morning
I am enjoying these discussions with you guys. As I've posted before I have been suffering about 3 weeks with a paralysed eye...I don't know if I had a mini stroke or what. Being online has been a great distraction since I can see the screen but I am having trouble looking at the world around me. Each day it depresses me a little when I can't recognize the iron, or a bottle cap on the window sill.
Other, I can't wait till I can see that video...when I go to my other daycare in another section of the city I pick up a free wireless signal...at home I only have dial-up.
Mixed mom, I hope the two boys will eventually work out their differences...I think the boy was saying, not that he had a problem with "white people" but that its a common assumption that whites or those other than Black can't dance.
Sometimes the belief that all Blacks can dance can backfire...I periodically take classes at a prestigeous dance co...the classes are open to the public...and often I feel a lil disappointed when the "hip-hop" class is ala Britteny Spears type "hip-hop" moves. I wanna dance how they do in most Black hip-hop videos...
My classmates are mostly white so one day I invited my daughter and her freind Jas...like the wicked witch of the west, I cackled and rubbed my hands together...figuring Leah and Jas were going to put these white girls to shame...
Jas couldn't follow a dance move if her life depended on it...and she got real shy in class and teacher had to give her alot of attention...I sat there with my mouth open...I wanted to keep both of them in dance classes but this was during their bad girl stage...
Monica, I don't know you or your daughter and I don't want to offend you...
but it sounds like your daughter needed discipline. Sure, all children have times where they mouth off and misbehave. I know I wasn't perfect but I didn't run around shoving folks. I certainly had pent-up emotions in my teens because of issues I had to deal with like rape, sexual abuse, a psychotic stepfather , and being an outcast. My "behavioral difficulty" showed itself in becoming withdrawn and having sex with the first boy who told me I was pretty.
You said that she's different now that she's older. Then you say that she listens to people and attacks if she feels slighted...doesn't that sound like there's still a problem? What caused her to be aggressive? You say that Leah identifies as black, despite being "visually mixed". What was her problem with those biracial twins? Perhaps hearing them talk about it annoyed her but maybe deep down she wanted to be able to relate to them.
A.D.: I remember that episode of "Any Day Now". Rene was very unpleasant to that woman. The hair comment came out when they were on the golf course and the mixed woman's curls blew in the wind. Rene snapped that "somebody needs to hand her a barrette". Insecurity, that's what it comes down to. Only later in the show did she realize that the other woman had had painful racial experiences too and that she had misjudged her.
Mixedmom: I always enjoy your posts because your family is so real! Unfortunately, your son will probably have to deal with black-identified children calling him a "white boy"...but it sounds like you've done well in raising two smart, confident kids.
Monica: It is racial hatred, period. Children will pick on kids they see as different...I certainly wasn't immune to it when I was young. Did you ever ask her why she bullied these people without provocation? It is indeed ironic that as a mixed person she would abuse others of mixed background. That indicates how she probably felt about herself. She probably adopted a "tough-girl" attitude to cover up bad feelings AND to be acceptable to her black friends.
And A.D. has a point...many people do seem to be offended by references (however innocuous) to non-black features or heritage. I don't talk about my looks ad nauseum with most people but if somebody acts all puzzled by my white appearance, I will explain it to them in simple terms. I recall that when I was involved in a relationship with a black man, there was definite resentment based on the fact that I not only looked different...I was culturally different. My ex started insinuating that I was lying, etc. His family would try to say I had "nappy" hair (I don't) and "ashy" skin (I don't) because of their own insecurities towards me as a person of mixed background with a Caucasian appearance.
Sure, I'm lying...meanwhile I would be the only one around being stared at and talked about. I was viewed as an outsider because I didn't look or act like them, and I was NOT welcomed into their family.
Posted: Sat 01 Mar 2008 17:02 Post subject: insecurities
pianoplayer111 wrote:
And A.D. has a point...many people do seem to be offended by references (however innocuous) to non-black features or heritage. I don't talk about my looks ad nauseum with most people but if somebody acts all puzzled by my white appearance, I will explain it to them in simple terms. I recall that when I was involved in a relationship with a black man, there was definite resentment based on the fact that I not only looked different...I was culturally different. My ex started insinuating that I was lying, etc. His family would try to say I had "nappy" hair (I don't) and "ashy" skin (I don't) because of their own insecurities towards me as a person of mixed background with a Caucasian appearance.
Sure, I'm lying...meanwhile I would be the only one around being stared at and talked about. I was viewed as an outsider because I didn't look or act like them, and I was NOT welcomed into their family.
You'll notice that one way some blacks and their allies like to put down mixed whites who dare to openly question the ODR is to pretend that you don't "look white." Note how this obvious nonsense depends upon the assumption that you are insecure and frightened about your identity and will accept the word of "blacks" over the reality of your life-long experience.
I ran into a rude black woman at the hospital recently. She was apparently confrontational to anyone not charcoal. I was waiting on tests in a crowded waiting room. Familiar with the place and the wait, I took a book with me to read. The call you by number after you sign in, to go register and then you have another half an hour to an hour wait before being called back. I left my book on my seat to go register, and when I returned, this woman had moved my book, taken my seat and had an elderly woman in a wheelchair in front of her. I didn't ask for my seat back, I just asked for my things back, the book and papers she had relocated, that I couldn't get to because she had that wheelchair blocking the corner table where she had put them. She replied "No". I must have looked shocked and she gave some smarta**ed remark after that. The entire room was giving her the mean eye, so she finally handed me my things with some comment about she wasn't being serious, and girl like me used to having our way. I am not sure what she meant by "girls like you". Most people have no clue what my ethnicity is until they ask, but I am not black, a few latent features of African ancestory, but not visibly black, but not visibly white either. So I am not certain her behavior was racist. But inside, I took it that she saw me as a mulatta, light-skinned and spoiled, maybe. I don't know. But it really got my goat. I wanted to blow up at her, but I kept my composure. An East Indian lady made a comment about her after she got up and left for registration. Racism can cross all borders. I never assume that blacks accept me as one of their own simply because I am well, proportionately quadroon. (Around 25% Native American, 25% African American and 50% Caucasian..give or take..Native American identifying).
I've encountered rudeness in all types of people and it does sound like that woman has some issues with colorism/racism. She only made herself look foolish in front of everyone.
Unlike you, I would have asked her to explain her comment. I would not have been confrontational about it but I believe in standing up for myself. I would also have told her politely but firmly that she was out of line. First, she took your seat and moved your stuff...then she had the nerve to make snide remarks and tell you "No" when you asked her to hand over your stuff. That wouldn't fly in my neck of the woods.
People can be extremely hostile to those unlike themselves. I've had my share of it in my relatively short life. When certain black and/or Hispanic women are unkind towards me, I realize that it isn't MY problem. The problem lies with them. If certain "white" women have attitudes towards me (but this has never happened to a severe extent), it isn't my problem. It is theirs.
That woman most likely judged you based on either preconceived notions or possibly bad experiences she might have had with mixed women. So the problem isn't yours...it is hers. She is simply an uncouth person with no class who resents people unlike herself. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that many bitchy or spiteful females anymore...including certain members of my own family.
I once read an article online by an AA woman who said that her perspective on this issue changed when she witnessed how two other black women treated a mixed woman in a California airport. Because she was dark brown like them, they were cordial and pleasant with her. Then a lighter-skinned woman with blonde highlights and green eyes asked them if the seat near them was taken. The author was shocked when the two women told her it was, and as the lady walked away, they made comments about how the "light-skinned bitch" could sit on the floor...because light-skinned/mixed women are always privileged anyway. The author admitted to being resentful towards women lighter than herself in the past but that episode of reverse colorism altered her attitude.
The woman you encountered sounds a bit like those women.
Posted: Sun 22 Jun 2008 06:30 Post subject: Black hatred towards the mixed race
pianoplayer111 wrote:
Hmm...
I've encountered rudeness in all types of people and it does sound like that woman has some issues with colorism/racism. She only made herself look foolish in front of everyone.
Unlike you, I would have asked her to explain her comment. I would not have been confrontational about it but I believe in standing up for myself. I would also have told her politely but firmly that she was out of line. First, she took your seat and moved your stuff...then she had the nerve to make snide remarks and tell you "No" when you asked her to hand over your stuff. That wouldn't fly in my neck of the woods.
People can be extremely hostile to those unlike themselves. I've had my share of it in my relatively short life. When certain black and/or Hispanic women are unkind towards me, I realize that it isn't MY problem. The problem lies with them. If certain "white" women have attitudes towards me (but this has never happened to a severe extent), it isn't my problem. It is theirs.
That woman most likely judged you based on either preconceived notions or possibly bad experiences she might have had with mixed women. So the problem isn't yours...it is hers. She is simply an uncouth person with no class who resents people unlike herself. Thankfully, I don't have to deal with that many bitchy or spiteful females anymore...including certain members of my own family.
I once read an article online by an AA woman who said that her perspective on this issue changed when she witnessed how two other black women treated a mixed woman in a California airport. Because she was dark brown like them, they were cordial and pleasant with her. Then a lighter-skinned woman with blonde highlights and green eyes asked them if the seat near them was taken. The author was shocked when the two women told her it was, and as the lady walked away, they made comments about how the "light-skinned bitch" could sit on the floor...because light-skinned/mixed women are always privileged anyway. The author admitted to being resentful towards women lighter than herself in the past but that episode of reverse colorism altered her attitude.
The woman you encountered sounds a bit like those women.
I think that many blacks hate the mixed-race people even more than they hate supposedly full blooded whites. A child almost never resents the privileges of an adult because he can't imagine himself as an adult. They are almost like gods to him. He is likely to resent the privileges of a teenager because they look more like adults but are legally seen as children - equal yet better. That closeness breeds hatred far more than distance.
I will say, however, that black people who behave this way do it because of an inferiority complex and ignorance.
I believe that some people perceive "privilege" that isn't there.
My skin color and appearance have never opened doors. Indeed, I've had to prove myself worthy almost as much as anybody else.
If people of different colors/races could trade places for a day, their perspectives would be altered. We would all have a new respect for one another.
I've had to deal with stuff that most people where I live have never dealt with. To be fair, I believe that many darker women of color don't realize that it goes both ways. No one wants to be mistreated or ostracized.
Posted: Sun 22 Jun 2008 07:03 Post subject: Privilege
pianoplayer111 wrote:
I'm inclined to agree with you somewhat.
I will say, however, that black people who behave this way do it because of an inferiority complex and ignorance.
I believe that some people perceive "privilege" that isn't there.
My skin color and appearance have never opened doors. Indeed, I've had to prove myself worthy almost as much as anybody else.
If people of different colors/races could trade places for a day, their perspectives would be altered. We would all have a new respect for one another.
I've had to deal with stuff that most people where I live have never dealt with. To be fair, I believe that many darker women of color don't realize that it goes both ways. No one wants to be mistreated or ostracized.
I agree with what you say. The anaolgy with children and teenagers was a reference to perception, not reality.
Joined: 27 Jan 2007 {Posts: 5 } Location: Paris, France/San Francisco, CA, USA
Posted: Sun 29 Mar 2009 02:21 Post subject:
I'm in a phase in life where I'm trying to let the poison go but many of your posts remind me of bad scenes I've had.
I 'eyeball' as 'black' so mostly I've gotten negative comments about my mannerisms, upbringing, hobbies/interests, choice of mates, and multiracial identity.
Most recently, one woman even went so far as to say that my hair was too nappy for me to have any mixed ancestry. Fortunately, I don't have hair shame but it was the public & antagonistic atmosphere when the comment was made that stung. Also I'd been deluded into thinking that hanging out in this sort of pseudo sorority was something to strive for and this was a total disappointment.
What made it crazier was that some who joined in most energetically in my 'just black beatdown' were multiracial and even 1st gen biracials themselves. My children were dragged into it as well, some stating that they're also just Black (my husband is French with some Asian ancestry and my family is African, German Jewish, Irish and Native Am.) as per ye olde 'one drop'.
I won't exhume the mess fully but it turned ugly and super personal in a totally unnecessary way.
I'd love to understand why is so easy for many Europeans, so-called 'white' Americans, diasporal(sp?) Afro-hyphenates and many others to acknowledge a brown person's multiracial heritage while still so many so-called 'black' Americans(many mixed themselves) remain incredibly stubborn and hostile.
I believe that most people here will be able to relate somehow. I'm sorry that your experiences have been so unpleasant.
A few thoughts...I think that in the future, you should avoid the company of negative individuals. It is completely counterproductive. I prefer solitude compared to being with people who wish to drain me psychologically.
Second, NEVER allow anyone to make you feel ashamed of who you are or what you look like. Don't seek acceptance from people because you want to fit in. I learned this the hard way.
What you need to do is accept yourself as you are, with NO apologies. Be bold. Do the things that you like to do. Love whom you want to love. Once people realize that you don't give a damn, they will shut up.
The woman who made that comment about you clearly has issues of her own. We will often encounter people who project their insecurities onto us. What really matters is how we handle it. It is difficult, but always remember to keep your chin up when confronted with hostility.
That woman is really clueless. I suppose she's one of those people that uses terms like "good hair", right? Is she unaware that people of multiracial ancestry have various hair types and skin colors? Has she never seen biracial people with so-called "nappy" hair?
I believe that the black folks that treated you this way have a deep-seated animosity towards those of mixed ancestry. As I've stated before, some black people have an overwhelming inferiority complex and they don't like it when another "black" person is different in any way. I'm not simply referring to mixed ancestry here...there are black people that are tormented by others because they don't fit the mold of what a black person supposedly "should" be.
Unlike you, I have a mostly European phenotype but that hasn't stopped certain people from making inflammatory comments.
I also believe that the biracial/multiracial people who attacked you were probably trying to prove that they could fit in with the black-identified folks. It sounds like a herd mentality and they all decided to gang up on you. The fact that they brought your children into it simply disgusts me. That was low and unnecessary.
I hope for your sake that you don't associate with these people anymore.
Posted: Sun 24 May 2009 23:04 Post subject: Re: Abuse may be too strong a word...
OTHER wrote:
However, going to college in New Orleans, when I was 17 - it was like an about face. During the whole 15 years I ended up living there, I had WAY more black female friends than white. I think that Southern Black women and ESPECIALLY those in New Orleans, have been prone to just accept me as their own, even without insisting that I ID as black.
In New Orleans, I did have two black male friends try to reason with me to convince me that I'm black. Again, I don't consider this to be abuse, but it was still an issue. Another experience I had in New Orleans had more to do with me being light than being part black. One of the black women that I was friendly with who worked at my grad school introduced me to this older black man one day, so I stuck out my hand to shake his hand. Well, the man refused to look and me and instead said "I don't shake hands with white people". Ho hum. If he only knew how RIDICULOUS that was! :roll:
Good to know that you met many who just took you as you. Too bad you had met one as*h0le. This proves what I keep saying,even though I make Miller sick and tired of my posts, which is that biracial people, interracial couples whichever way, have to live in places where they and their children are not singled out. You cannot make others accept your choice ,but in cities where their are more blended people, more opened mindedness,the better it is to mix in and and for the kids to develop socially.
This weekend I went to Mariah Carey's concert at the Kodak Theater in L.A. I was walking down Highland with my Mexican American cousin-in-law when this homeless Black man walked up to us (me) and started verbally abusing me. Now people tell me all of the time that I look intimidating because of my height (I don't slouch) and I used to get the "you think you're better/you're stuck up" crap from people in high school :roll: , so I guess seeing me walking down the street, well-dressed and in heels was too much for this guy. He commented negatively on my slim frame and called out (to his imaginary friend and/or other personality) "Who does this bitch think she is?" We just looked at each other and burst out in laughter, but inside it still stung.
Unfortunately we passed this turd again and he calls out to my cousin "Is that your ho? She ain't all that!" And that was just amazing. I just laughed and said "If I was the pennies in your cup wouldn't buy 10 seconds of my time," which was wrong but he pissed me off.
I have been treated this way by Black men before, who apparently find something in my appearance and demeanor that signals to them that I am a threat and need to be "taken down."
You are attractive,young,intelligent .I forgot what you do for a living.
Not all Black guys are like this, but it is hard to find a Black guy. You have to look elswhere,like White guys and other men, or just stay home on a Saturday night. Your choice are slim.Hey, am not that Halle Berry cute either. I do not fit in with Creole men and I do not go to Black guys and they do not go for me either. I go for the White ones or other men.
Thanks CG! I'm not looking for a Black guy (or any kind of guy now that I have a boyfriend ) but was once of the mind that I wanted to be with someone from a similar ethnic background. With some maturity I realized that if I wanted to increase the chances of finding someone who was perfect for me, that person would probably not be found only in the A-A or Haitian American communities. I found him, and he is not even remotely like me ethnically, but we are two peas in a pod when it comes to values and how we want to live our lives. I wish that more Afrodescended women from all ethnic groups in the U.S. would open their minds. Women from the Carribean, Latin America, Africa etc. seem to be more open.
I do agree that AA women and Creole women (from what you and others have said) do have limited choices within the ethnic groups. In my opinion, a AA woman is crazy to limit herself to only AA men. At least widen it to "of African descent" and consider Latinos and Arabs . There is a serious problem in the AA population that is affecting how men and women interact and develop relationships, not mention all of the economic and anti-woman stuff that is also impacting things.
It seems that some AA women are holding out for Mr. Tall, Dark, and Handsome...but sometimes love can be found elsewhere if one is willing to look.
I'm not AA, but could it be that some AA men and women have lost mutual respect for one another? If so, that is a shame because black love is indeed beautiful.
All love is beautiful...but it makes me smile to see an AA couple that is unified and devoted and happy, especially the younger generation.
I saw a young AA couple the other day walking hand in hand. They were both in their 20's, both brown-skinned. The girl was cute. She had this joyful expression. She literally lit up when he touched her hair. It saddened me a bit too, because more young AA women deserve to be treated as kindly as this girl was.
They need to be loved and valued for who they are...not the size of their "booty" or anything else.
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...I'm sorry I had to laugh at my own words...
Enjoy.
