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Sadie
Regular User
Joined: 19 Oct 2008
{Posts: 73 }
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 Posted: Sun 15 Mar 2009 00:03 Post subject: Do Sicilians have African ancestry? |
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| I've seen some anthropology websites that work very hard to prove that Sicilians have absolutely no African ancestry. How can they say that when they were ruled by the Moors who may have been North African but often do have some amounts of sub-Saharan ancestry? |
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fwsweet
Administrator
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
{Posts: 5368 }
Location: Palm Coast, FL
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| Posted: Sun 15 Mar 2009 00:17 Post subject: |
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| I have moved this thread from the "Ethnicity in America" forum since it deals with sub-Saharan DNA markers in a European population. I shall let William or Mister Lawyer answer, if either wishes. I also suggest that Sadie might want to check out the thread Refuting "Racial Reality" re Italians and Sicilians. |
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Powell
Guru
Joined: 27 Nov 2004
{Posts: 2448 }
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| Posted: Mon 16 Mar 2009 02:57 Post subject: Re: Do Sicilians have African ancestry? |
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| Sadie wrote: | | I've seen some anthropology websites that work very hard to prove that Sicilians have absolutely no African ancestry. How can they say that when they were ruled by the Moors who may have been North African but often do have some amounts of sub-Saharan ancestry? |
I would guess it's because SSA ancestry still carries a great stigma in their minds. Black-identified Americans don't help matters when they publicly denounce people of Euro ancestry and phenotype as "passing for white" and being "really black" (a la the late Anatole Broyard). If a small amount of "black" ancestry makes you "black," who can blame anyone for denying it or being ashamed of it? The AA elite can't seem to figure out that rejecting the "one drop" myth would raise their status and "decriminalize" black ancestry (as William Javier Nelson used to say). |
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fwsweet
Administrator
Joined: 26 Nov 2004
{Posts: 5368 }
Location: Palm Coast, FL
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| Posted: Mon 16 Mar 2009 10:55 Post subject: Re: Do Sicilians have African ancestry? |
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| Powell wrote: | | I would guess it's because SSA ancestry still carries a great stigma in their minds. ... . |
Everything after the first sentence shifts the blame for the data falsification in question from the perpetrators (the "racial reality" website owner) to A-As in general (and A-A "elite" in particular). This seems a bit of a stretch to me. I think blame should fall only on the perp unless there is reason to believe that the perp is somehow in league with Gates. |
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William
Moderator
Joined: 30 Mar 2005
{Posts: 1082 }
Location: New Jersey
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| Posted: Fri 01 May 2009 15:42 Post subject: |
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People like Dienekes Pontikos and Racial Reality try very hard to "prove" that there is no African anestry in Greek and Italian (esp. Sicilian) populations. They go so far as to falsify studies. I've had many bouts with them in the past.
Sicilians do indeed have African (North African and sub-Saharan) ancestry and admixture. In fact, I've seen a greater variety of sub-Saharan markers in Sicilians than in any other European population. I have read all the studies concerning them. Check out the page I created, that Frank linked to above. There is both paternal and maternal sub-Saharan admixture in Sicilians, but the maternal admixture is more significant. An island-wide study testing for L1/L2 mtDNA markers found a 4.4% sub-Saharan component. A forensics study testing a southern Sicilian town found sub-Saharan mtDNA markers (L1/L3/L3 and M1) at a rate of over 13%. DNAPrint geneticist Lou Charlton told me in private correspondence that Sicilians often typed with between 6 and 12 percent sub-Saharan autosomal markers. A Y-chromosome study found E-M35* (the uncladed variety, with high concentrations in eastern and southern Africa only) at a rate of about 5%.
Greeks, mainland Italians (mainly southerners, but others also), and Sardinians have detectable sub-Saharan admixture, as well. |
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