Jul 30th 2009 | BOGOTÁ
From The Economist print edition
Black Colombians suffer “structural discrimination”
ASK Colombians about racism in their country and many will say that the country’s mestizos, blacks, mulatos and whites live in harmony. Some Afro-Colombians, such as Edna Martínez, a sociologist, tell a different story. She remembers seeing, as a child growing up in Bogotá’s poor neighbourhoods, a sign in an apartment window that read, “For rent, but not to blacks”. More recently when out with friends she was turned away from three different night clubs that either claimed to be closed for private parties or threatened exorbitant cover charges. A lawsuit last year won them a public apology. “But it didn’t really change anything,” Ms Martínez says. Such experiences are why some black Colombians support a government plan to present an affirmative-action bill to Congress later this year.
Colombia’s 1991 constitution recognised the country’s multiethnic character, and provided for two additional seats in Congress for Afro-Colombians and a similar quota for Amerindians. Two years later Afro-Colombian communities on the Pacific coast were granted collective titles to land occupied by their ancestors when slavery was abolished in 1851.
Despite such steps, a committee to study racial inequality set up by the government and headed by Francisco Santos, the vice-president, concluded in May that black Colombians face “structural discrimination”. It reported that they were more likely to be poor and that their infant mortality rate was half as high again as that of the rest of the population. In Chocó province, where four out of five people are black, life expectancy at birth is 58.3 years, compared with the national average of 70.3. “We recognise now that there is a problem,” said Mr Santos.
The committee proposed quotas for blacks in universities, government agencies and the armed forces, and incentives for companies to recruit Afro-Colombians as middle managers and for political parties to field black candidates. The role of Afro-Colombians, today little more than a footnote in history books, would be highlighted in school texts.
“The myth that there is no racism here is the maximum expression of discrimination,” says César Rodríguez, who heads a research centre on socio-legal studies at Bogotá’s University of the Andes. Afro-Colombian leaders have called for affirmative action for years. Some worry that the proposals will not be implemented, and that the committee was aimed mainly at placating the Congressional Black Caucus in the United States, in the hope of gaining its backing for a free-trade agreement between Colombia and the United States. But other black leaders fear that quotas may ignite racial conflict. Daniel Mera of Fundación Color, an NGO, says that what is needed instead of quotas are better educational and social policies so that black Colombians can compete on equal terms.
The first problem will be deciding who is black. In the 2005 census 10.6% of the population thus defined themselves, but some demographers say the real figure could be as high as 26% (which would mean that Colombia has the third-biggest black population in the Americas, after Brazil and the United States). That is because many mulatos do not see themselves as black. This may be either because they do not feel discriminated against—or as a means to avoid discrimination.
The first problem will be deciding who is black. In the 2005 census 10.6% of the population thus defined themselves, but some demographers say the real figure could be as high as 26% (which would mean that Colombia has the third-biggest black population in the Americas, after Brazil and the United States). That is because many mulatos do not see themselves as black. This may be either because they do not feel discriminated against—or as a means to avoid discrimination.
LOL..It never occurs to people that they may identify as mulatto because they see themselves as mulatto and not because they don't feel discriminated against. And how would identifying yourself as something other than black help you avoid discrimination if it is supposed to be so rampant in that society? Many of these people are in the same extended families. It's not like people who see themselves as mulatto run off to form some mulatto community in Colombia. Mulatto is simply a descriptor, just like zambo, mestizo, etc.
Quote:
She remembers seeing, as a child growing up in Bogotá’s poor neighbourhoods, a sign in an apartment window that read, “For rent, but not to blacks”. More recently when out with friends she was turned away from three different night clubs that either claimed to be closed for private parties or threatened exorbitant cover charges. A lawsuit last year won them a public apology. “But it didn’t really change anything,” Ms Martínez says. Such experiences are why some black Colombians support a government plan to present an affirmative-action bill to Congress later this year.
Question: How would affirmative action, which in a country with so much inequality as Colombia means putting African-looking people in high profile positions, prevent this woman from being denied entry into a club or address the poverty and low life expectancy of the Choco region?
Something else to consider: socially and economically most people who are not Afro-Colombian (i.e., the majority) aren't any better off. Colombia is like many other Latin American countries: you have the rich, who are generally predominantly European descended, and everyone else. Should they not have affirmative action for Amerindians and mestizos as well?
For the record, I'm not saying there isn't racism (colorism) there.
[Something else to consider: socially and economically most people who are not Afro-Colombian (i.e., the majority) aren't any better off. Colombia is like many other Latin American countries: you have the rich, who are generally predominantly European descended, and everyone else. Should they not have affirmative action for Amerindians and mestizos as well?
For the record, I'm not saying there isn't racism (colorism) there.
How do you address the fcat that Afrodescendants ("Blacks" as they identify themselves and others whose self description indicates some subSaharan African ancestry) are grossly under represented and often almost totally absent from upper middle class occupations in Colombia, Brazil and other Latin American countries?
Probably even moreso than are Mestizos? Clearly there is a remedy other than merely acknowledging that it exists.
LOL..It never occurs to people that they may identify as mulatto because they see themselves as mulatto and not because they don't feel discriminated against. And how would identifying yourself as something other than black help you avoid discrimination if it is supposed to be so rampant in that society? Many of these people are in the same extended families. It's not like people who see themselves as mulatto run off to form some mulatto community in Colombia. Mulatto is simply a descriptor, just like zambo, mestizo, etc.
My very good friend...ok my g/f (who is from Cali) says that that it is a form of denial. She also says that she could call herself a martian but that won't change how she is treated or help her escape discrimination. And she acknowledges that because they try to label her as a triguena or a mulatta she doesn't get it as badly as her mother (she is as dark as the young lady above)
G-Man wrote:
Something else to consider: socially and economically most people who are not Afro-Colombian (i.e., the majority) aren't any better off. Colombia is like many other Latin American countries: you have the rich, who are generally predominantly European descended, and everyone else. Should they not have affirmative action for Amerindians and mestizos as well?
Mestizos are the majority ethnicity in Colombia so why would they need affirmative action? And if memory serves me Amerindians do have affirmative action and they have also been the recipients of land redistribution programs meant to make up for government sanctioned inequalities
[Something else to consider: socially and economically most people who are not Afro-Colombian (i.e., the majority) aren't any better off. Colombia is like many other Latin American countries: you have the rich, who are generally predominantly European descended, and everyone else. Should they not have affirmative action for Amerindians and mestizos as well?
For the record, I'm not saying there isn't racism (colorism) there.
How do you address the fcat that Afrodescendants ("Blacks" as they identify themselves and others whose self description indicates some subSaharan African ancestry) are grossly under represented and often almost totally absent from upper middle class occupations in Colombia, Brazil and other Latin American countries?
Probably even moreso than are Mestizos? Clearly there is a remedy other than merely acknowledging that it exists.
And how would affirmative action address the poverty that many blacks find themselves in in Colombia?
Who have been the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action in the U.S.'s black community? Have they been the black poor? How is it that income inequality is greater within black America than between black and white Americans, despite the existence of quotas and affirmative action? Obviously it hasn't helped the least of the black community in the U.S.
Given the illiteracy and poverty so rampant in that society how will affirmative action remedy this for black Colombians? The article suggests that quotas will solve everything from poverty to discrimination. If I can't read and write, having some special place for me at universities won't benefit me. However, it will benefit those scant few from legally designated disadvantaged groups who can take advantage of such programs.
There is the other problem of political and social opposition to these kinds of programs. In a society made up mostly of poor people, many illiterate, the state privileging one racial group over members of the mestizo majority population that is also in dire straits will not be popular politically.
Now if you want more representation in middle class occupations and high profile segments of the population by blacks in Colombia then quotas will do that. However, assuming it will magically prepare people for those occupations is another thing.
What you'll end up with is a more pronounced version of the situation here: the poverty most blacks in Colombia find themselves in will continue, but there will be a visible class of black Colombian quota beneficiaries. The poverty of that group won't be substantively reduced but will be used as justification to deepen these programs which don’t benefit the majority of them anyway.
LOL..It never occurs to people that they may identify as mulatto because they see themselves as mulatto and not because they don't feel discriminated against. And how would identifying yourself as something other than black help you avoid discrimination if it is supposed to be so rampant in that society? Many of these people are in the same extended families. It's not like people who see themselves as mulatto run off to form some mulatto community in Colombia. Mulatto is simply a descriptor, just like zambo, mestizo, etc.
My very good friend...ok my g/f (who is from Cali) says that that it is a form of denial. She also says that she could call herself a martian but that won't change how she is treated or help her escape discrimination. And she acknowledges that because they try to label her as a triguena or a mulatta she doesn't get it as badly as her mother (she is as dark as the young lady above)
Now if you believe such people ought to identify as black to serve some greater social/political goal then fine, but what exactly are such people in denial about when they don't see themselves as black?
anonymouse wrote:
G-Man wrote:
Something else to consider: socially and economically most people who are not Afro-Colombian (i.e., the majority) aren't any better off. Colombia is like many other Latin American countries: you have the rich, who are generally predominantly European descended, and everyone else. Should they not have affirmative action for Amerindians and mestizos as well?
Mestizos are the majority ethnicity in Colombia so why would they need affirmative action? And if memory serves me Amerindians do have affirmative action and they have also been the recipients of land redistribution programs meant to make up for government sanctioned inequalities
Affirmative action programs in parts of the world where they've been implemented have had nothing to do with the target population's size. Many advocates for AA in Brazil for example claim that black people are the majority of the population there. Malays who are the majority of Malaysia's population have been the recipients of that nation's affirmative action programs. Arguably, Sephardic/Mizrahi Jews are larger in size than Ashkenazi Jews in Israel, but it's the former that has been the recipient of that country's affirmative action programs.
Mestizo's may indeed be underrepresented in middle income occupations and in high profile positions in that country. Maybe they need AA too.
And Amerindians, as well as Afro-Colombians in the Choco region, have been the recipients of such land redistribution schemes in their traditional areas, but I'm not sure if there are actual quotas for Ameridians in that country.
[Something else to consider: socially and economically most people who are not Afro-Colombian (i.e., the majority) aren't any better off. Colombia is like many other Latin American countries: you have the rich, who are generally predominantly European descended, and everyone else. Should they not have affirmative action for Amerindians and mestizos as well?
For the record, I'm not saying there isn't racism (colorism) there.
How do you address the fcat that Afrodescendants ("Blacks" as they identify themselves and others whose self description indicates some subSaharan African ancestry) are grossly under represented and often almost totally absent from upper middle class occupations in Colombia, Brazil and other Latin American countries?
Probably even moreso than are Mestizos? Clearly there is a remedy other than merely acknowledging that it exists.
And how would affirmative action address the poverty that many blacks find themselves in in Colombia?
Who have been the primary beneficiaries of affirmative action in the U.S.'s black community? Have they been the black poor? How is it that income inequality is greater within black America than between black and white Americans, despite the existence of quotas and affirmative action? Obviously it hasn't helped the least of the black community in the U.S.
Given the illiteracy and poverty so rampant in that society how will affirmative action remedy this for black Colombians? The article suggests that quotas will solve everything from poverty to discrimination. If I can't read and write, having some special place for me at universities won't benefit me. However, it will benefit those scant few from legally designated disadvantaged groups who can take advantage of such programs.
There is the other problem of political and social opposition to these kinds of programs. In a society made up mostly of poor people, many illiterate, the state privileging one racial group over members of the mestizo majority population that is also in dire straits will not be popular politically.
Now if you want more representation in middle class occupations and high profile segments of the population by blacks in Colombia then quotas will do that. However, assuming it will magically prepare people for those occupations is another thing.
What you'll end up with is a more pronounced version of the situation here: the poverty most blacks in Colombia find themselves in will continue, but there will be a visible class of black Colombian quota beneficiaries. The poverty of that group won't be substantively reduced but will be used as justification to deepen these programs which don’t benefit the majority of them anyway.
I was unaware that affirmative action was designed to solve the unique problems of the poor. I thought that it was to solve the problems of under representation of specific ethnic groups by using various methodologies to improve access. And that it doesnt remove the need for a variety of poverty alleviation programs and behavioral changes.
Clearly the beneficiaries will be the "black" middle class, however they chos e to define who is "black".
But then the black middle class in the USA is much bigger today than it was in 1970 isnt it? Hasnt the increasingly visible black middle class not changed how whites perceive blacks and how poor blacks might perceive opportunities for blacks in the mainstream? Even now we are hearing that some Latinas have been inspired by Sotomayor's success.
Do you think that there are no Afrodescendant professionals in Colombia? Dont you think that some strategy miht be needed to force employers to be open when considering candidates for jobs or contracts, not being locked in to traditional notions of what such a person should look like?
Now clearly the main focus on improving the overall status of "blacks" in Colombia will have to be through improved education and other poverty alleviation programs. But what if it turns out that black and mulato graduates of Colombia's universities have a harder time finding employment than do their white amd mestizo counterparts because of built in biases as to who "fits" where?
A lot of what motivates people to sacrifice in order to improve their lot comes from perceptions as to whether this effort will be worth it. Increasingly visible darker Colobians occupying high positions within the public and private sectors might be beneficial, might it not?
Now I am not saying that affirmative action, especially one relying on quotas, is the remedy but what should one do when they have done all expected of them to succeed, but still have to face obstacles posed by some who think that they shouldnt be there?
I was unaware that affirmative action was designed to solve the unique problems of the poor. I thought that it was to solve the problems of under representation of specific ethnic groups by using various methodologies to improve access. And that it doesnt remove the need for a variety of poverty alleviation programs and behavioral changes.
Your understanding of affirmative action’s design and purpose wasn’t what I was addressing really and isn’t shared by the advocates of quotas/affirmative action in Colombia, according to the article in the Economist. According to the article, it is seen as a means to address poverty of black Colombians. In fact, many discussions about the merits or quotas and AA revolve around it being heralded as a poverty fighting program, both in countries like Brazil and the U.S.
From the article:
Quote:
Some Afro-Colombians, such as Edna Martinez, a sociologist, tell a different story. She remembers seeing, as a child growing up in Bogota’s poor neighbourhoods, a sign in an apartment window that read, “For rent, but not to blacks”. More recently when out with friends she was turned away from three different night clubs that either claimed to be closed for private parties or threatened exorbitant cover charges. A lawsuit last year won them a public apology. “But it didn’t really change anything,” Ms Martinez says. Such experiences are why some black Colombians support a government plan to present an affirmative-action bill to Congress later this year.
From the same article:
Quote:
Despite such steps, a committee to study racial inequality set up by the government and headed by Francisco Santos, the vice-president, concluded in May that black Colombians face “structural discrimination”. It reported that they were more likely to be poor and that their infant mortality rate was half as high again as that of the rest of the population…….The committee proposed quotas for blacks in universities, government agencies and the armed forces, and incentives for companies to recruit Afro-Colombians as middle managers and for political parties to field black candidates.
Quote:
Clearly the beneficiaries will be the "black" middle class, however they chos e to define who is "black".
Do you think that there are no Afrodescendant professionals in Colombia? Dont you think that some strategy miht be needed to force employers to be open when considering candidates for jobs or contracts, not being locked in to traditional notions of what such a person should look like?
You’re assuming that the intended targets of these programs are Afrodescendant professionals and the black middle class. The article clearly states that quotas are being implemented to address the poverty of Afrodescendants.
The issue for me, as it is always is with the importation of these programs from the U.S., is not that they shouldn’t employ these programs, but whether these programs will achieve the objectives they are supposed to. In the Colombian example, based on the article, affirmative action and quotas are promoted as poverty fighting programs, which they are not.
From the article:
Quote:
Afro-Colombian leaders have called for affirmative action for years. Some worry that the proposals will not be implemented, and that the committee was aimed mainly at placating the Congressional Black Caucus in the United States, in the hope of gaining its backing for a free-trade agreement between Colombia and the United States. But other black leaders fear that quotas may ignite racial conflict. Daniel Mera of Fundación Color, an NGO, says that what is needed instead of quotas are better educational and social policies so that black Colombians can compete on equal terms.
Clearly if you want to increase the number of black people is high profile positions in the public and private sector quotas could be one approach. However, the establishment of quotas by the government specifically for Afrodescendants will not be accepted lightly by non-Afrodescendants. Colombia is not the U.S. and the notion that Afrodescendants have a special claim on society, the state, or the private sector isn’t generally accepted there.
But if you want to address poverty, bad schools, etc., better educational and social policies would be more efficacious and more likely to be accepted by the populace at large since it would be seen as benefiting low-income Colombians regardless of racial background.
So how does one address the near invisibility of Afrodescendants in Colombia, indeed in most parts of Latin America except Cuba, from upper middle tier positions. Its not as if there arent some who havent gone to college. Yet education doesnt seem to be all when some have notions as to how people in certain positions ought to look.
As I stated above clearly poverty allevation programs are necessary but is it all that is needed when some do what is expected of them and obtain a college degree? But because they dont "look" a certain way might have a harder time accessing positions which provide for upwad mobility. As an example. Will an Afrodescendant with a law degree have access to top law firms or will they be restricted to hanging out their shingle and catering to the poor? Whether this is their desire or not.
Notable example of this being the alleged gradual squeezing out the the descendants of West Indians from jobs on the Panama Canal since the govt of Panama took over. Positions being awarded heavily to Mestizos. These jobs ranking amongst the most lucrative in Panama. I doubt that its because people, whose grandfathers and great grandfathers worked on th Canal, lack the skills to do those jobs. It will be no surprise if the result of this is gradual downward mobility amongst this population relative to their parents and grandparents.
The article above not only referenced poverty but also discrimination which had nothing to do with being poor, and all to do with being seen as black.
[But if you want to address poverty, bad schools, etc., better educational and social policies would be more efficacious and more likely to be accepted by the populace at large since it would be seen as benefiting low-income Colombians regardless of racial background.
And what do you do when the beneficiaries of this then face discrimination relative to their mestizo and white peers by virtue of being viewed as Afrodescendant? If the return for their effort is seen as subpar by virtue of discrimination against them due to their phenotype might this not act as a disincentive for others with similar appearance to take advantage of these opportunities?
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