Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Thu 03 Sep 2009 15:39 Post subject: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
Quote:
CHARLIE UPS THE RACE-CARD ANTE
Last updated: 9:46 am
September 3, 2009
Posted: 2:44 am
September 3, 2009
First it was Gov. Paterson. Now the dean of New York's congressional delegation has played the race card -- and just as the governor did, he's using President Obama to do it.
Rep. Charles Rangel said Tuesday that "bias" and "prejudice" toward Obama are fueling opposition to health-care reform.
Those incendiary comments came on the heels of Paterson's controversial comments about race that also mentioned the nation's first black president.
"Some Americans have not gotten over the fact that Obama is president of the United States. They go to sleep wondering, 'How did this happen?' " Rangel (D-Manhattan) said Tuesday.
Speaking at a health-care forum in Washington Heights, Rangel said that when critics complain that Obama is "trying to interfere" with their lives by pushing for health-care reform, "then you know there's just a misunderstanding, a bias, a prejudice, an emotional feeling."
"We're going to have to move forward notwithstanding that," said Rangel, the powerful chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee and a chief health-care negotiator.
Rangel then likened the battle over health-care expansion for the uninsured to the fight for civil rights.
"Why do we have to wait for the right to vote? Why can't we get what God has given us? That is the right to live as human beings and not negotiate with white southerners and not count the votes. Just do the right thing," he said.
Rangel's comments came less than two weeks after Paterson claimed he has been the victim of a racist white media -- and also suggested that opposition to Obama's plan is racially driven.
The White House was quick to rebut Paterson's comments.
Critics of ObamaCare blasted Rangel for taking the low road.
"Charlie Rangel knows that race has nothing to do with the health-care debate. He should not be implying that race has anything to do with it," said Rep. Peter King (R-LI).
State Conservative Party leader Mike Long called Rangel's comment "outrageous and outlandish" -- and suggested the congressman might be trying to deflect attention from his ethics woes.
"Rangel is playing the race card. It's clear that the congressman is trying to galvanize the minority community that this is 'us against them.' It's going to backfire. A majority of people will see through this," Long said.
After the forum, Rangel insisted he was not smearing opponents as racists.
"What I'm saying is, if you watch the town-hall meetings, people were angry and did not care what the answer was to some of their questions. They were angry with their member of Congress, period," he said.
"What I'm saying is, if you watch the town-hall meetings, people were angry and did not care what the answer was to some of their questions. They were angry with their member of Congress, period," he said.
As they should be angry when they feel their member of Congress is not listening to them, this is what it's all about. If they can't take the heat, then get the hell out of the fire!!!!
Rangel, another elitist Democrat who feels he is above paying the taxes evryone else has to pay. Particularly when he is the Chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Posted: Thu 03 Sep 2009 15:55 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
Quote:
The White House was quick to rebut Paterson's comments.
I do not believe this. Had it been posted by a site member, I would demand a source. The White House has consistently blamed opposition on White-on-Black racism. I can imagine their passing up an opportunity to brand opponents as "racists." But I cannot imagine their "rebutting" such a thing.
While I think that we probably disagree about matters of improving the broadness of access to health care in the US, I agree with you that it is false to equate the class issue of health care not being provided to many Americans to the race issue of health care being denied, via some sort of conspiracy, to "blacks." It is also unfair to assume that "blacks" support Obama's plan and "whites" oppose it. There are many persons of many colors on all sides of the health care debate.
I find this statement particularly interesting-
Quote:
"Rangel is playing the race card. It's clear that the congressman is trying to galvanize the minority community that this is 'us against them.' It's going to backfire. A majority of people will see through this," Long said.
I think that it is an accurate prediction that most Americans will see through it. This is what makes me suspicious that this is another case in which America's leisure class, who would prefer not sacrifice one of their yachts or private jets for the sake of health care for others, is pitting "black" against "white" as a means of dividing and conquering the masses. I am not saying that Chuck means to play along, but that he is perhaps a pawn here for something much bigger.
this is another case in which America's leisure class, who would prefer not sacrifice one of their yachts or private jets for the sake of health care for others, is pitting "black" against "white" as a means of dividing and conquering the masses.
Posted: Thu 03 Sep 2009 23:24 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
fwsweet wrote:
Quote:
The White House was quick to rebut Paterson's comments.
I do not believe this. Had it been posted by a site member, I would demand a source. The White House has consistently blamed opposition on White-on-Black racism. I can imagine their passing up an opportunity to brand opponents as "racists." But I cannot imagine their "rebutting" such a thing.
Two sources for you. I really wonder where you picked up the notion that the White House CONSISTENTLY looks to use the race card. Maybe I should ask you for a source.
Funny. Obama is usually seen a strying to avoid a racial dust up, to the chagrin of some who voted for him. He clearly is different from Paterson who isnt popular EVEN AMONG BLACKS. So is clearly trying to play the race card and not surprisingly, apart from SOME black politicians, doesnt seem to have too many NYS blacks backing him on that one. Other black pols are trying to get Patterson to leave quietly before he is tossed out next year, IN THE PRIMARIES.
Two sources for you. I really wonder where you picked up the notion that the White House CONSISTENTLY looks to use the race card. Maybe I should ask you for a source.
Your first link goes nowhere but to a list of links, none of which have anything to do with this topic as far as I can tell. If your second link were accurate, I would stand corrected. Have you any other independent source?
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Fri 04 Sep 2009 02:37 Post subject:
erasmusinfinity wrote:
D,
While I think that we probably disagree about matters of improving the broadness of access to health care in the US, I agree with you that it is false to equate the class issue of health care not being provided to many Americans to the race issue of health care being denied, via some sort of conspiracy, to "blacks." It is also unfair to assume that "blacks" support Obama's plan and "whites" oppose it. There are many persons of many colors on all sides of the health care debate.
I agree with you 100%.
erasmusinfinity wrote:
This is what makes me suspicious that this is another case in which America's leisure class, who would prefer not sacrifice one of their yachts or private jets for the sake of health care for others, is pitting "black" against "white" as a means of dividing and conquering the masses.
I disagree with you 100%. Most of the people I see opposing this do not have yachts or private jets. They are ordinary hard working citizens who do not want government encroachment into their lives. That's the way I see it at least.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Fri 04 Sep 2009 03:13 Post subject:
I really hope Pelosi and Rangel hang in there!!!!
Quote:
Rangel-ing: Charlie Pays 'Angels' In Ethics Probe
Harlem Congressman Gave Campaign Contributions To 3 Dems On Ethics Committee Charged With Investigating Him Reporting
Marcia Kramer NEW YORK (CBS) ― Click to enlarge1 of 1
U.S. Representative Charles Rangel (D-NY)
AP
CBS 2 HD has learned of more alleged back-door dealings and political power peddling by Democratic Rep. Charles Rangel.
The reigning member of Congress' top tax committee is apparently "wrangling" other politicos to get him out of his own financial and tax troubles.
Here's a look at Charlie's so-called "angels" involved in his ethics investigation.
Congressman Rangel has been arrogant in refusing to discuss how, as the man who writes this country's tax laws, he failed to report over $1 million in outside income and $3 million in business transactions as required by the House, lapses under investigation by the House Ethics Committee.
"I recognize that all of you have an obligation to ask questions knowing that there's none of you smart enough to frame it in such a way that I'm going to respond," Rangel said.
There may be a reason for Rangel's arrogance. CBS 2 HD has discovered that since ethics probes began last year the 79-year-old congressman has given campaign donations to 119 members of Congress, including three of the five Democrats on the House Ethics Committee who are charged with investigating him.
Charlie's "angels" on the committee include Congressmen Ben Chandler of Kentucky, G.K. Butterfield of North Carolina and Peter Welch of Vermont. All have received donations from Rangel.
Only Welch sees something wrong with being financial beholden to Charlie.
"In an abundance of caution, he has returned all campaign contributions from Mr. Rangel," said spokesman Bob Rogan, Welch's Chief of Staff.
It amounted to nearly 20 grand.
Experts say the congressman's largess makes him crazy like a fox.
"Certainly money does make friends and influence people and perhaps make him a little bit more popular and at this particular moment that might help," said pundit Micheline Blum of Baruch College.
"Buying insurance, you know? Don't bite the hand that's feeding you. Clearly he sees himself as having a problem and he is contributing to members who might look favorably," added Doug Muzzio of Baruch.
Congressman Rangel has said he expects the House Ethics Committee to rule quickly on the ethical charges that are being brought against him. The problem is he's been saying the same thing for well over a year.
Rangel's office did not return a request for comment on the question of whether the congressman thought members receiving donations from him should step aside and let others rule on the ethics charges.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Fri 04 Sep 2009 11:56 Post subject:
Amazing, the Washington Post is calling for Charlie to step down.
Quote:
Sorry, Charlie
Rep. Rangel must step aside as chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Thursday, September 3, 2009
FOR POLITICIANS with major bad news to release or to make public, there's no time like the dead of August to do it. The thinking goes that the public won't remember a thing come September. We hope Rep. Charles B. Rangel (D-N.Y.) will have no such luck. His belated revelation of previously unreported income, property and bank accounts demands that he step aside as chairman of the House Ways and Means Committee.
Mr. Rangel's amended financial disclosure form, which exposes omissions from his 2002 through 2006 records, is a treasure trove of outrage. He neglected to report a checking account with the Congressional Federal Credit Union and one with Merrill Lynch, each valued between $250,000 and $500,000; the tens of thousands of dollars he's earning from dividends from a number of mutual funds and stocks; and the money made from the sale of a Harlem townhouse. As a result, Mr. Rangel's reported net worth doubled, from between $516,015 and $1,316,000 to between $1,028,024 and $2,495,000.
We called on Mr. Rangel to resign his coveted post last November while the House ethics committee probed his contact with a potential donor to a pet project who also had business before the committee. Mind you, that committee already was looking into his using official stationery to raise funds for that pet project, paying below-market rents on four Harlem apartments, failing to report income from a Florida condominium sale and failing to pay taxes on a home in the Dominican Republic. There's another subcommittee investigation into lobbyist-paid trips by Mr. Rangel and four other members of Congress.
Much is expected of elected officials. Much more is expected and demanded of those entrusted with chairmanships and the power that comes with them, especially when it involves the nation's purse strings. From all that we've seen thus far, Mr. Rangel has violated that trust continually and seemingly without care.
The same man who in 1994 said, "It's no longer 'nigger' or 'spic', it's let's cut taxes" So the man is no stranger to playing the race card.
I think at 79 years of age and a member of Congress since 1970, Charlie should call it quits all together, but then the longer the likes of him and Pelosi hang on, the more people will become enraged.
Posted: Fri 04 Sep 2009 19:13 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
"Some Americans have not gotten over the fact that Obama is president of the United States. They go to sleep wondering, 'How did this happen?' " Rangel (D-Manhattan) said Tuesday.
I am not one to use RACE as an excuse for things,a reason for things, a cause, etc. I am a person who is totally unbiased, unracists .
I DO believe Rangel has a point there.
It is not just about Obama's HCF bill but anything and everything about him.
Latest- many school districts, many PTA's are against him speaking to their students and children on Tuesday. Reagan did it and it was fine. Bush did it and it was great. Obama, a sin!! It is indoctrination! Right wing nuts are whipping people into a frenzy calling for you to keep your kids home from school.
Oh, it is not the message. The
message is about staying in school. It is a presidential message of the usual things a president and other people say to kids.
Oh,the homework/lesson plan are what many people are against.
Okay, take that out. The wording of one question is: How can you help the president?
Bad question.
Okay, take that away. It has been changed. The question is "Why should you stay in school? " TWH website on Monday will have the president's text. Still not good enough . It is just a personal thing. That is all. Enough.Plus,once the RadicalRight nWingers putit out,whatever it is,it takes becomes urban myth.
This message from Obama has been changed.
STILL, many people want no part of him
I have worked at good schools with wonderful people.
I know that one of them where I worked , predominately White, did not show Obama's Inauguration. If this were McCain,no problem.
I said they were wonderful people. It takes people while to adjust and accept this, you know, a Black one, as president.
Some people will never be able to accept this. Some people cannot accept their city with a Black mayor.
That is okay. YEAH, it is okay. Lets be honest.
However, you have to be reasonable . There is no way they are going to accept this particular man, but they also don't want others to. Many are taking the approach, if you just ignore him, and with help from the Right Wingers,keep fighting every issue, it will all be a bad dream and over in 3 years.
Now I will say that Obama is to blame for some things and I'll post that on another thread.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Fri 04 Sep 2009 20:06 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
Creole GAL wrote:
"Some Americans have not gotten over the fact that Obama is president of the United States. They go to sleep wondering, 'How did this happen?' " Rangel (D-Manhattan) said Tuesday.
I am not one to use RACE as an excuse for things,a reason for things, a cause, etc. I am a person who is totally unbiased, unracists .
I DO believe Rangel has a point there.
It is not just about Obama's HCF bill but anything and everything about him.
Latest- many school districts, many PTA's are against him speaking to their students and children on Tuesday. Reagan did it and it was fine. Bush did it and it was great. Obama, a sin!! It is indoctrination! Right wing nuts are whipping people into a frenzy calling for you to keep your kids home from school.
Oh, it is not the message. The
message is about staying in school. It is a presidential message of the usual things a president and other people say to kids.
Oh,the homework/lesson plan are what many people are against.
Okay, take that out. The wording of one question is: How can you help the president?
Bad question.
Okay, take that away. It has been changed. The question is "Why should you stay in school? " TWH website on Monday will have the president's text. Still not good enough . It is just a personal thing. That is all. Enough.Plus,once the RadicalRight nWingers putit out,whatever it is,it takes becomes urban myth.
This message from Obama has been changed.
STILL, many people want no part of him
I have worked at good schools with wonderful people.
I know that one of them where I worked , predominately White, did not show Obama's Inauguration. If this were McCain,no problem.
I said they were wonderful people. It takes people while to adjust and accept this, you know, a Black one, as president.
Some people will never be able to accept this. Some people cannot accept their city with a Black mayor.
That is okay. YEAH, it is okay. Lets be honest.
However, you have to be reasonable . There is no way they are going to accept this particular man, but they also don't want others to. Many are taking the approach, if you just ignore him, and with help from the Right Wingers,keep fighting every issue, it will all be a bad dream and over in 3 years.
Now I will say that Obama is to blame for some things and I'll post that on another thread.
All this would not be happening had Obama been properly vetted, he was not. Ask the Clintons, that was the one thing I agreed with them about. Nothing we can do about that now. Had Obama came in and stayed center left, he would be ok. Instead he moved far left. This is not a far left nation, it is not even center left. You cannot come into office and want to radically change things, it will upset the flow. They (along with Congress) thought they had a mandate for all this. I said in November it was not a mandate and it turns out I was right. Does "race" have something to do with the reaction, yes, but the majority of the reaction is due to the perception that Obama is a statist elitist who views the people with contempt. My question is, how did he get elected in the first place, did all the people who have this reaction stay home or something?
Then add in his associations and the likes of Van Jones, it doesn't give a lot of people warm fuzzies that this guy is looking out for them. It makes them feel as if he will push his agenda on them wether they like it or not. I think this is the source of the reaction of him speaking to the kids.
I bet if he wanted to do this in February, this would not have been an issue.
He has made some stategic errors, along with Congress. They have time to turn it around, lots of time actually. But it will be hard, for what ever fork in the road they take, they will either further alienate the conservatives and independents, or they will alienate the left wing base. This is the result of arrogance IMO.
This is what makes me suspicious that this is another case in which America's leisure class, who would prefer not sacrifice one of their yachts or private jets for the sake of health care for others, is pitting "black" against "white" as a means of dividing and conquering the masses.
I disagree with you 100%. Most of the people I see opposing this do not have yachts or private jets. They are ordinary hard working citizens who do not want government encroachment into their lives. That's the way I see it at least.
I am not saying that there is a conspiracy coming from such persons as can not afford yachts or private jets. I am saying that there is a class of persons who have much to gain from the current absence of access to medicine that many hard working and economically productive Americans suffer from. And that it is quite useful to a seperate group of persons, who can and often do have yachts and private jets and the like, for naive masses to be focused on such things as race. I would add "government encroachment upon lives" to the list of red herrings.
Two sources for you. I really wonder where you picked up the notion that the White House CONSISTENTLY looks to use the race card. Maybe I should ask you for a source.
Your first link goes nowhere but to a list of links, none of which have anything to do with this topic as far as I can tell. If your second link were accurate, I would stand corrected. Have you any other independent source?
The last two especially reveal numerous quotations and examples.
Well the NY Post, hardly liberal, reports the reaction of the White House to Patterson. Further from what I can see NONE of your sources link Obama or the White House to the use of the race card.
Nancy Pelosi and others represent themselves. That is assuming that it is a fcat that they specifically mentioned racism as the reason. We know that Rangel did but is that view widespread?
And one can argue that the articles that you link to represent an opinion not an objective fact. The opinion of some of the ultra right have that Obama hates whites is an opinion, not a fcat.
In any case if one says that access to decent and affordable health care is a civil right it would be reasonable to think that this isnt use of a race card. Isnt access to decent and affordable health care not a civil right that shoulkd be enjoyed by all who legally reside in the United States of America?
Posted: Sun 06 Sep 2009 11:10 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
caribj wrote:
Further from what I can see NONE of your sources link Obama or the White House to the use of the race card.
What part of
Quote:
For fifty years now we have been told that we need an honest dialogue on race. The Attorney General condescendingly informed us that we are "cowards" when it comes to matters of race. When Jeremiah Wright's racist demagoguery was exposed, Candidate Obama lectured us about "typical white people" like his grandmother being inherently racist. Recently the President advised us that we had a "teachable moment" when in so many words he accused the Cambridge police of racism in the treatment of Professor Henry Gates. Of course, he did the teaching when he should have been apologizing and taking responsibility for his own gaffe.
Obama lectures us from Mt. Olympus on matters of race, but his own racial record is dubious at best. He sat under Jeremiah Wright for 20 years, in spite of Wright's racist rhetoric and support for notorious anti-Semite Louis Farrakhan. Candidate Obama accused his opponents of pointing out that he does not look like the Presidents on our currency. In truth, nobody cares that he doesn't look like George Washington, but we would be pleased for him to govern with a similar wisdom, integrity and restraint.
It was Obama who quoted Wright admiringly in his book, The Audacity of Hope, "white folks greed runs a world in need." Recently his administration dropped charges of voter intimidation against the virulently racist New Black Panther Party even though the Justice Department has already won the case. Based on his writings and past associations, the President is not post-racial, but race obsessed. Like his mentors and leftists colleagues, he believes that our country is essentially racist, particularly its "white folks."
The American people are tired of being called racist. We have had it with ivory tower liberals telling us we need to have a "dialogue" about race. We don't need any more lectures or sensitivity training. Here is my racial dialogue with the American people. "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." Dialogue over. Let's drop the race bating and get on with debating the matter of keeping our country prosperous and free.
... is invisible?
caribj wrote:
The opinion of some of the ultra right have that Obama hates whites is an opinion, not a fcat.
Straw man. The issue is not whether the president "hates Whites." Who could possibly know or care? The issue is my claim that, "The White House has consistently blamed opposition on White-on-Black racism." Unscrupulous U.S. politicians throughout history have deliberately polarized gullible Americans into hostile "racial" camps and I have reluctantly concluded that Obama is the latest, most egregious example. I would not say that each divider does it because he hates the opposite "race." That would require sincerity. Instead, I would guess that they do it: (1) because it inflates their egos and (2) because it works to distract the sheep.
caribj wrote:
In any case if one says that access to decent and affordable health care is a civil right it would be reasonable to think that this isnt use of a race card. Isnt access to decent and affordable health care not a civil right that shoulkd be enjoyed by all who legally reside in the United States of America?
Straw man. The nation desperately needs health care reform. It will be recorded as a historical tragedy that Obama's attempt to achieve this failed due to his own cynical and self-destructive enthusiasm for deliberately splitting the sheep into hostile "racial" camps.
Posted: Wed 09 Sep 2009 20:16 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
[quote="fwsweetWhat part of
Quote:
For fifty years now we have been told that we need an honest dialogue on race. The Attorney General condescendingly informed us that we are "cowards" when it comes to matters of race. .
And do we have honest (however defined as we all will have our own idea as to what honest is) discussions on race in the USA? Why not? Is it because we are uncomfortable doing so?
In any case I was not aware that the AG was trying to hide opposition to initiatives by the White House by that statement. Help me out here.
ANd by the way Mr McWhorter, a black conservative also was in sympathy with Gates calling police encounters with black men to be the last frontier of racism in the USA. I dont think that he wishes to defemnd Obama does he.
Funny how you didnt comment on Obama's comments directed towards blacks (in his speech on race) in terms of their view of white and also about his comments at the NAACP dinnere. Why is that Mr Sweet.
Posted: Wed 09 Sep 2009 20:27 Post subject: Re: Charlie Rangel ups the race card ante
fwsweet wrote:
[Straw man. The nation desperately needs health care reform. It will be recorded as a historical tragedy that Obama's attempt to achieve this failed due to his own cynical and self-destructive enthusiasm for deliberately splitting the sheep into hostile "racial" camps.
Curious that I have missed attempts by Obama to blame white people for teh difficulties that he is facing with the health care issue. Help me out here with comments made SINCE this issue ha sbecome tempestuous.
If it is references to the socalled Town Hall meetings loads of people (insurance companies, etc) have said that the hysteria and deliberate attempts to distort have prevented serious discussions on the potential flaws of the Obama/Democrat health plans. Even people like Betsy Mcaughey who is hardly a friend of the public option or other facets of Obama's health care proposals.
Joined: 27 Nov 2004 {Posts: 1763 } Location: Hudson Valley, NY
Posted: Wed 09 Sep 2009 23:27 Post subject:
caribj wrote:
If it is references to the socalled Town Hall meetings loads of people (insurance companies, etc) have said that the hysteria and deliberate attempts to distort have prevented serious discussions on the potential flaws of the Obama/Democrat health plans. Even people like Betsy Mcaughey who is hardly a friend of the public option or other facets of Obama's health care proposals.
I think it was Obama and the Democrats who prevented serious attempt at debating this topic or at least tried to. Recall that Obama wanted this bil passed before the recess. This was a deliberate attempt to try to ram this down the throats of the people without 1) completely knowing what was contained in the bill and 2) not wanting to debate the bill because of fear as more of it got out to the people, the more opposition to it would ensue. Much to their dismay, 2) took place.
If it is references to the socalled Town Hall meetings loads of people (insurance companies, etc) have said that the hysteria and deliberate attempts to distort have prevented serious discussions on the potential flaws of the Obama/Democrat health plans. Even people like Betsy Mcaughey who is hardly a friend of the public option or other facets of Obama's health care proposals.
I think it was Obama and the Democrats who prevented serious attempt at debating this topic or at least tried to. Recall that Obama wanted this bil passed before the recess. This was a deliberate attempt to try to ram this down the throats of the people without 1) completely knowing what was contained in the bill and 2) not wanting to debate the bill because of fear as more of it got out to the people, the more opposition to it would ensue. Much to their dismay, 2) took place.
Are there supporters of the public option going to town hall meetings and screaming to prevent others from talking.
Just checking.
While Obama might have wanted the bill to be rammed through it wasnt. And it wanst because some Democrats want to debate with the GOP. And within the Democratic party itself some disagree and feel free to express their views even if means that Obama doesnt get his way.
Curious. Are almost 100% of the GOP in the House always in agreement with each other?
Its a pity that the extreme right wing dont want a debate when even the insurance industry and others want one this time. Heckling when othes wish to ask a question isnt called wanting a debate. Letting people ask questions and then advancing reason why one disagrees seems more in the spirit of this.
Curious though when George Bush was around and the REpublicans controlled the House was there the kind of intra party debate that is now occurring within the Democratic party. The result being that a bill wasnt assed at the speed that the White House may have wished it to be. I am not including late 2008 by which time GW was a lame duck President. Let us look at the period between 2001-2007.
How much clout do the moderate Republicans have within that party which seems run by the likes of Glenb Beck, Limaugh and Pallin these days? We have discovered that the moderate/conservative Democrats seem unafraid to go against what some might wish them to agree to. Why so if some wish to paint Obama is a Stalinist pushing to recreate the USA into the Soviet Union.
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