Posted: Sun 18 Nov 2007 01:31 Post subject: Does every group "one-drop"?
I'm starting to think that "one-dropping" is not unique to America or race but that it is a dynamic of all groups that share a common trait.
In another thread I was thinking about a dear friend "lost" who was "one-dropped" in the deaf community. We had this real handsome dude who spent a year in our daycare as a TSS worker for a deaf child in care. "k" was Black...but not quite black cause his parents were from Guyana. He was deaf but not quite deaf because he could hear with his hearing aid. He wanted to date one of my employees who was a "white girl" into Black guys, but she rejected him cause he wasn't thuggin it like most black guys.
Then he was horribly mistreated by his company and the school for the deaf becuase he floated somewhere between deaf and hearing culture. He was wrongfully fired even though we loved him at the daycare. And the kid he interpeted for loved him. I saw his pain of not being a full member in two groups, and we've all had sightings of him all over the city...drunk and depressed..I really dug this boy as a person, he was a really good guy...
I have a whole bunch of funny stories I tell my daughter about being 6 feet tall since 6th grade and having absolutely no basketball skills what-so-ever. I was NEVER a part of that group..."black female athletes", because I was tall I was EXPECTED to be one...but because I was a goof-ball and uncoordinated...I was outside of that group...
So isn't that sort of like one dropping...if your a lil deaf your supposed to be "down-with" the whole deaf agenda. I was tall, so athletic girls sought me out until they found out I wasn't Black, tall and athletic...
I choose to join the goofy and smart crowd...then the bohemian and artistic crowd...
US society is the only one to ingrain that modus operandi into law.
The laws that made the "onedrop rule" the lay of the land may have changed but it still guides the present thinking of the multitude!
US society is the only one to ingrain that modus operandi into law.
The laws that made the "onedrop rule" the lay of the land may have changed but it still guides the present thinking of the multitude!
As subtle as a rock being thrown at your head!
nawwww, not so...what about countries that outlaw homosexuality...aren't they essentially "one-dropping" males and females, assuming that all males are heterosexual or that all females want males as sexual partners
Monica,
I think that what you're describing is more so belonging to cliques than one dropping. One dropping cannot apply to homosexuals, unless they are only partly homosexual. And, yes, lots of heterosexuals and homosexuals demand that bisexuals choose a side, but this is still not "one dropping", unless a genetic basis for homosexuality/heterosexuality is proven.
You were a tall, black teenager who was not athletic and the other tall, black girls WERE athletic, so they were looking for that same "total package" in you. But, here's the thing, you really could have become athletic. Even if you sucked in practice and rode the bench all semester, you could have worked on your skills, balance, agility, and so on. Now, for me? There is no amount of practice, increasing of skills, etc. that will make me just white or just black genetically.
Monica,
I think that what you're describing is more so belonging to cliques than one dropping. One dropping cannot apply to homosexuals, unless they are only partly homosexual. And, yes, lots of heterosexuals and homosexuals demand that bisexuals choose a side, but this is still not "one dropping", unless a genetic basis for homosexuality/heterosexuality is proven.
You were a tall, black teenager who was not athletic and the other tall, black girls WERE athletic, so they were looking for that same "total package" in you. But, here's the thing, you really could have become athletic. Even if you sucked in practice and rode the bench all semester, you could have worked on your skills, balance, agility, and so on. Now, for me? There is no amount of practice, increasing of skills, etc. that will make me just white or just black genetically.
I still say it's the same, genetics doesn't make you black in the US, if that was so my husband would't be black...my brother and son wouldn't be black...I come from the most non-athletic short-waist, high butt tall black folk (like Sinbad)...same way you can't genetically make you self have more African ancestry than you have, I can't build strong muscle mass.
The "black" thing IS like what was expected of me because I was tall. Or take for example the asian kid who had no visable penis, he could actually be genetically female but if his mom says he's a boy, then we treat and accept him as a boy.
Monica,
I think that what you're describing is more so belonging to cliques than one dropping. One dropping cannot apply to homosexuals, unless they are only partly homosexual. And, yes, lots of heterosexuals and homosexuals demand that bisexuals choose a side, but this is still not "one dropping", unless a genetic basis for homosexuality/heterosexuality is proven.
You were a tall, black teenager who was not athletic and the other tall, black girls WERE athletic, so they were looking for that same "total package" in you. But, here's the thing, you really could have become athletic. Even if you sucked in practice and rode the bench all semester, you could have worked on your skills, balance, agility, and so on. Now, for me? There is no amount of practice, increasing of skills, etc. that will make me just white or just black genetically.
I still say it's the same, genetics doesn't make you black in the US, if that was so my husband would't be black...my brother and son wouldn't be black...I come from the most non-athletic short-waist, high butt tall black folk (like Sinbad)...same way you can't genetically make you self have more African ancestry than you have, I can't build strong muscle mass.
The "black" thing IS like what was expected of me because I was tall. Or take for example the asian kid who had no visable penis, he could actually be genetically female but if his mom says he's a boy, then we treat and accept him as a boy.
How we treat people and what they actually are - these are two totally different things. One dropping SPECIFICALLY is genetics making you black in the U.S. Don't you see? If a person like Vin Diesel decided to call himself "white" and then it was found out he was a "person of color", then if people tried to say, well then he's black, THAT would be one dropping. One dropping has nothing to do with how he behaves, how he identifies, how people perceive him, or how they act toward him. One dropping is SPECIFICALLY about any small portion of black genes/blood making you black. It is hard to comprehend because it is so stupid, but that's really what it is!
I think that what you are talking about is the part of our human nature that makes us assume that all of X type of people are this way and all of Y type of people are that way and also our tendency to want to "stick to our own kind". Human beings make assumptions and we like to group everything into little neat boxes, whether it's scientists trying to fit the platypus into some relevant taxonomic category or a straight woman disbelieving that her gorgeous best male friend really, really, really, really is gay. But, the one drop rule was a special KIND of manifestation of these traits and it was most definitely based on genetics and not behavior, upbringing, self-identification, or others perceptions of you.
Here's another way of putting it. A lot of people have perceived me to be Puerto Rican, which I am not even part. Yet, no one, not even one single solitary Puerto Rican friend of mine, has ever tried to convince me that I was Puerto Rican, nor have they just decided to go ahead and view me as Puerto Rican. However, I have had black friends, upon finding out that I am mixed, try to convince me that I am "black" and I have had white people, upon finding out that I am mixed, automatically identify me as "black". Monica, THAT is one dropping.
Monica,
I think that what you're describing is more so belonging to cliques than one dropping. One dropping cannot apply to homosexuals, unless they are only partly homosexual. And, yes, lots of heterosexuals and homosexuals demand that bisexuals choose a side, but this is still not "one dropping", unless a genetic basis for homosexuality/heterosexuality is proven.
You were a tall, black teenager who was not athletic and the other tall, black girls WERE athletic, so they were looking for that same "total package" in you. But, here's the thing, you really could have become athletic. Even if you sucked in practice and rode the bench all semester, you could have worked on your skills, balance, agility, and so on. Now, for me? There is no amount of practice, increasing of skills, etc. that will make me just white or just black genetically.
I still say it's the same, genetics doesn't make you black in the US, if that was so my husband would't be black...my brother and son wouldn't be black...I come from the most non-athletic short-waist, high butt tall black folk (like Sinbad)...same way you can't genetically make you self have more African ancestry than you have, I can't build strong muscle mass.
The "black" thing IS like what was expected of me because I was tall. Or take for example the asian kid who had no visable penis, he could actually be genetically female but if his mom says he's a boy, then we treat and accept him as a boy.
How we treat people and what they actually are - these are two totally different things. One dropping SPECIFICALLY is genetics making you black in the U.S. Don't you see? If a person like Vin Diesel decided to call himself "white" and then it was found out he was a "person of color", then if people tried to say, well then he's black, THAT would be one dropping. One dropping has nothing to do with how he behaves, how he identifies, how people perceive him, or how they act toward him. One dropping is SPECIFICALLY about any small portion of black genes/blood making you black. It is hard to comprehend because it is so stupid, but that's really what it is!
I think that what you are talking about is the part of our human nature that makes us assume that all of X type of people are this way and all of Y type of people are that way and also our tendency to want to "stick to our own kind". Human beings make assumptions and we like to group everything into little neat boxes, whether it's scientists trying to fit the platypus into some relevant taxonomic category or a straight woman disbelieving that her gorgeous best male friend really, really, really, really is gay. But, the one drop rule was a special KIND of manifestation of these traits and it was most definitely based on genetics and not behavior, upbringing, self-identification, or others perceptions of you.
Here's another way of putting it. A lot of people have perceived me to be Puerto Rican, which I am not even part. Yet, no one, not even one single solitary Puerto Rican friend of mine, has ever tried to convince me that I was Puerto Rican, nor have they just decided to go ahead and view me as Puerto Rican. However, I have had black friends, upon finding out that I am mixed, try to convince me that I am "black" and I have had white people, upon finding out that I am mixed, automatically identify me as "black". Monica, THAT is one dropping.
food for thought...being black is so complex...I definately "know" what you are saying...and I have actually stopped considering "everyone" black...as a youth and based on my upbringing...If you were of ANY color to me you were Black...but I know now that some people just are not or don't wanna be
I just think it's not a unique phenom....I think if you are affilated with any group or classifications that folks FIRST consider you a full fledged member then back you out based on what they observe.
If I tell someone I am college educated, own my own business, make over $100,000 a year...then they see me, I dress ragged, live in the hood, talk smack...I get backed out real quick.
Can I speak frankly, if I "like" and can relate to a mixed person, I tend to still use "code" to classify them to other Black people. If I was introducing a self identified biracial person to my mom, before they would be brought into her house I would say "I'm a bring Sally over, now she's mixed but she's cool"...which is STILL the same as one dropping a person...because what I would NOT want to do is succumb to societal pressures to divide my race when that might not be in "our" best interest. If that person was cold or I didn't like them I'd say "Mom now ya know Sally is "bi-racial"."...as code for not black acting, not "cool"...snotty...blah, blah, blah
is that in error as far as what that mixed person wants?
Can I speak frankly, if I "like" and can relate to a mixed person, I tend to still use "code" to classify them to other Black people. If I was introducing a self identified biracial person to my mom, before they would be brought into her house I would say "I'm a bring Sally over, now she's mixed but she's cool"...which is STILL the same as one dropping a person...because what I would NOT want to do is succumb to societal pressures to divide my race when that might not be in "our" best interest. If that person was cold or I didn't like them I'd say "Mom now ya know Sally is "bi-racial"."...as code for not black acting, not "cool"...snotty...blah, blah, blah
is that in error as far as what that mixed person wants?
Well, I don't know. It's hard for me to judge, since I'm sure you'd be telling your mom that I am
!!!
Honestly, though, because I do not necessarily look like I'm mixed with "black" to lots of people, in spite of the fact that I have a few kinds of "black" in me - African, Jamaican, and Bajan, I would honestly not mind if you made sure your peeps knew in advance that I am mixed. This would cut out any awkwardness of them wondering what the heck I am or assumptions that Monica has a new Puerto Rican friend! I'm not sure if people can even judge by my behavior, because, in my opinion, I am something like the whitest black girl/blackest white girl you'll ever meet! I am truly mulatto!
Joined: 25 Oct 2007 {Posts: 25 } Location: Florida, US
Posted: Tue 27 Nov 2007 11:53 Post subject:
Something akin to the one drop rule applies in many countries in the Eastern Hemisphere. Countries like Denmark, Korea, and Turkey are more or less nation states where national and ethnic identities are basically intertwined and being "mixed" or not the "right" ethnicity will probably carry some stigma, overt or not, unless you can hide that fact.
Last edited by Ashkar on Tue 27 Nov 2007 11:57; edited 1 time in total
Something akin to the one drop rule applies in many countries in the Eastern Hemisphere. Countries like Denmark, Korea, and Turkey are more or less nation states where national and ethnic identities are basically intertwined and being "mixed" or not the "right" ethnicity will probably carry some stigma, overt or not, unless you can hide that fact.
but since I have been to S. Korea (USMC) the Koreans, despite being more homogenous (vis a vis Japan), they usually do not have a legal 'one drop rule' (de jure) but again the black/Korean offspring do get the negative disgust whereas the white/Korean, although less accepted, do tend to be more favoured. This is what I have seen!
Turkey, though more heterogenous (as long as you are not Kurdish) is far more accepting but again it is the 'black thang' when the minority African descent Turks do feel the brunt because they lack the visibility of a Kurd or Azeri minority of sufficient numbers! Though they speak Turkish, they are usually relegated to 'foreigners status' because they are not visible.
The Koreans in Japan syndrome, the Chinese in Malaysia and Indonesia, etc do not have the legal requirement as in US but the sting is meaningless in that economic possibilites overrules the societal bias, in most cases.
Turkey, though more heterogenous (as long as you are not Kurdish) is far more accepting but again it is the 'black thang' when the minority African descent Turks do feel the brunt because they lack the visibility of a Kurd or Azeri minority of sufficient numbers! Though they speak Turkish, they are usually relegated to 'foreigners status' because they are not visible.
Wow there are really people in Turkey with visible African ancestry? I always assumed that Turks would have some African admixture, but populations distinguished by visible African ancestry I did not know about.
Do you have any more information about these people?
Turkey due to its location will have more of an Eastern European base with Central Asian background and a minimal of African admixture.
I will try to link a source.
Thanks for the link. I found it puzzling that slavery was abolished in the Ottoman Empire in 1857 according to the article, but Mustafa Alpak's father was brought to Turkey from Kenya as a slave. Mr. Alpak must be really old.
I recently came across a research paper recomeded by a friend called "The Metamorphosis of caste among Trinidad Hindus" by N Jayaram
Contributions to Indian Sociology 49,2(2006) and it alludes to the Indian diaspora, where "caste passing" occured due to 'the quick thinking men, surrounded by complete strangers and far from their native village" would have accomplised the task of changing their status when they reached their new location or on boarding the boat for their new destination.
In Trinidad, the word 'Chamar' was/is used derogatively to refer to those who were believed to be lower caste!
Interestingly the British refered to all Indians by the use of the word 'coolie', often used in a derogative manner inspite of the alleged/supposed jati (status) of the individual.
I recently came across a research paper recomeded by a friend called "The Metamorphosis of caste among Trinidad Hindus" by N Jayaram Contributions to Indian Sociology 49,2(2006) and it alludes to the Indian diaspora, where "caste passing" occured due to 'the quick thinking men, surrounded by complete strangers and far from their native village" would have accomplised the task of changing their status when they reached their new location or on boarding the boat for their new destination.
That is interesting. As I recall, Oliver Cromwell Cox defended the survival of the Hindu caste system in Trinidad.
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I am truly mulatto!