The Study of Racialism

Gus T Renegade · New User Joined: 14 Sep 2009 {Posts: 19 }

The Context of White Supremacy Radio Program
Host: Gus T Renegade & Justice
Guest: Matthew F. Jacobson
Time: 8:00PM Eastern/ 5:00PM Pacific
Link: http://tobtr.com/s/678703

Tuesday, September 15th 8:00PM EASTERN/ 5:00PM PACIFIC

Yale's Matthew Jacobson will share his views on the System of White Supremacy. Matthew Jacobson is the author of Whiteness of a Different Color, which examines how different groups of "probationary Whites" have become accepted as full-fledged White. Jacobson evidences how being accepted as White has been predicated on the abuse of non-white people(especially black people). He examines the fundamental nature and evolution of White Supremacy in the United States and analyzes what it means to be White in a System of White Supremacy.

As always, we will attempt to provide constructive information and look forward to taking calls from the listeners. Should be a most interesting program.

Link for the program

fwsweet · Posted: Mon 14 Sep 2009 22:18 Post subject:

This is an outstanding book on the ever-expanding blanket of Whiteness, a label that embraces each new immigrant group once they are accepted into the mainstream. I recommend it and the above-advertised radio interview with the author.

erasmusinfinity · Moderator Joined: 07 Dec 2008 {Posts: 408 }

Thank you very much Gus (and Frank too).

erasmusinfinity · Moderator Joined: 07 Dec 2008 {Posts: 408 }

I must say that I find your usage of the phrase "System of White Supremacy" to be problematic.

First of all, for most people I think that the term "white supremacy" firstly conjures up images of the KKK, skinhead gangs, and those who would deliberately seek to deny persons whom they do not regard as being "white" as inferior, undeserving of equal consideration, etc. I take it that you mean the phrase "whte supremacy" to not only refer to such persons, but also to persons who circumstantially and even unknowingly function in conjunction with the idea of "whiteness." By using the phrase "white supremacy" to mean something more than the term is most commonly used to mean, you implicitly group together the more common meaning with otherwise different phenomena. This can be misleading.

Also, your usage of the term "system" here seems to describe something deliberate and even conspiratorial as opposed to circumstantial, which can also be misleading.

It strikes me that Jacobson does not so much evidence "how being accepted as White has been predicated on the abuse of non-white people(especially black people)." More so, he evidences how enormously flexible the very concept of "whiteness" is - that it is not something that refers clearly to any specific ancestry. If this is true, then it would conversely apply to the concept of "blackness" - that it is not something that refers clearly to any specific ancestry. Thus, it is not a case that he is suggesting that "whiteness" has simply been predicated on the abuse of a "black" people (defined as some sort of fixed ancestral grouping), but that the label of "blackness" itself constitutes the abuse.

I should add that persons who identify as "black," as much so as those who identify as "white," are also persons who function in conjunction with the idea of "whiteness." Using your definition, would you refer to them as "white supremacists?"

fwsweet · Posted: Fri 18 Sep 2009 03:09 Post subject:

erasmusinfinity · Moderator Joined: 07 Dec 2008 {Posts: 408 }

Thanks for the compliment Frank.

To be clear, that statement was not meant as an assertion about Jacobson's views. From the interview, he seems to accept and work with Gus' usage of the phrase "white supremacy." I don't know to what extent that phrase does or doesn't mean the same thing to him. Also, I have not read the book yet. Although I have moved it up to near the top of my reading list. It is very interesting.

My statement was of my impression of the implication of Jacobson's research.

Gus T Renegade · New User Joined: 14 Sep 2009 {Posts: 19 }

erasmusinfinity

I'm new here and don't really know the folks in the forum. It would be helpful if you could let me know if you are a White person. Thanks.

I'll shoot one more question. What problem does the usage of therm "White Supremacy" create for you? I define the term White Supremacy at the beginning of every one of my programs. Dr. Jacobson agreed with my definition on the show.

erasmusinfinity · Moderator Joined: 07 Dec 2008 {Posts: 408 }

Depending on the context of discussion, I would either consider that I am neither "white" nor any other color, or else that I am all colors because I feel a sense of kinship and solidarity with all of humanity. Sorry if that doesn't help for putting me in a box, but I understand that I am allowed to identify as I wish on this forum.

I do not necessarily disagree with your suggestion that American society places "whites" at the top of a social hierarchy. To me that is a redundancy because being at the top of a social hierarchy is what it means to be "white." In other words, being "white" is not essentially about some sort of ancestry but about being defined as the in group whatever one's ancestry happens to be.

As I said in my post above, my main issue with your usage of the term "white supremacy" is that it conjures up, for most I think, images of deliberate "white" on "black" hate which is not necessarily the same thing as what I was just saying in my last paragraph.

Do you define "whiteness" differently then I do?

erasmusinfinity · Moderator Joined: 07 Dec 2008 {Posts: 408 }

fwsweet · Posted: Tue 29 Sep 2009 17:27 Post subject:

A few subsequent messages were split off to Bringing up a member's personal ethnopolitical self-identity in the "Site Management" forum.