The Study of Racialism

Not true. See the discussion of Carol Channing in another thread.

Who are you to decree this? If they consider themselves a "race," on what basis do you challenge it? Please give your source for this factual claim. That, friend, is strike two.

This amounts to saying that your definition of their identity has priority over theirs. That is arrogant, racist, and fundamentally dishonest.

Pretty simple: The Spanish (i.e., White/European) colonized Hispaniola and implemented Spanish institutions. Spanish Whites were at the top of the social heap, so the social aspirations of the nation's people are largely towards their ideals. Many Dominicans are indistinguishable from Spanish people if you look at them, so why shouldn't they be called White? I think Omar and others have convincingly argued that modern Dominicans recognize all aspects of their culture (African, European, Native). And I think many Dominicans do identify as indio.

http://www.websterfl.edu/~corbetre/haiti//misctopic/dominican/antihaiti.htm

You must be joking. I helped write that article. It gives a dozen or so different usages of the term "race," none of which even mention Dominicans. Second request: Please cite the source for your claim that Dominicans are not a "race."

A "race" is a population. A nation is also a population. In that sense, of course DR people belong to a race

What are you talking about.

I believe your racist ideas are from the 19th century. You better study modern genetics.

Omar

Yes, you do. Obviously Dominicans are a nationality. That is not the point. You insist on claiming that Dominicans are not a "race," despite the fact that they see themselves thus. You claim that they (millions of them) are factually mistaken and that you (one) are factually accurate. Please cite your source. This is my third and final request.

Agree!

And I also I have to say something. Most Hispanics identify as Indio!
When you know you carry drops or ten liters of Indian blood, you identify with Indians. Even if you don't have a single drop of Indian blood, if you love your land you identify as Indian.

All Latin Americans are Indian at least in spirit and most are more than in only spirit. But the Spirit is what is worth.

Finally, why one has to identify with only one group? Why we can't have multiple identities? That's the way we are, at least.
Only if get that you could understand why we are Hispanics, Indians, Blacks and everything else at once.

Above all we identify with our country because there is our land. We love it like Indians do.

Omar

Greetings

As a Dominican born native, I have to strongly disagree with those who believe in the notion of a white, and perhaps mostly mixed DR. The fact of the matter is that Dominicans are majority of the darker hue -- in essence what we called here in the States, - Black. We're a nation in DENIAL, wanting to be everything except BLACK. To most Dominicans, there are no Blacks in DR. To most in DR, Black, is synonymous with "Haitianos" [Haitians].

We cannot discuss race relations in DR without understanding the dictator Trujillo, and his minion Balaguer who were just as racist or worse than Hitler. They engineered a whitening program in DR, complete with European, Asian, Jewish, Germans, Spaniards etc.... immigration, as well as the genocide of over 25,000 dark-skinned Haitians and Domincans folks on October 2, & 3 - 1937. Dark-skinned Dominicans have bought into the 'flag-waving, Dominican Power' rah..rah bs nationalist idea as a substitute for what they see in the mirror. Trujillo, as a national policy instituted the racial classification of Dominicanos, as a nation of 'Indio oscuros, claros etc...' But under no circumstances Blackness did not 'exist' in Dominican society.

This article touches superficially on a very complex issue in the island, and perhaps to an extent, racial relations in most of Latin America. The hatred for blackness and Haitians is so profound and pronounced that what I just stated could easily cost me my life in DR, and perhaps in some places in Washington Heights, NYC [predominantly Dominican neighborhood].

PEACE

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http://americas.org/item_25509

Anti-Haitian Bias Rooted in Dominican History

Published by Worldpress.org, 2/28/06

Article by Jeffrey Zahka


"Dominicans define themselves in terms of who they are not," said Tamar Thompson, project coordinator of the New York-based National Coalition for Haitian Rights. "Globally speaking, there is no place where you score points for being darker."

Thompson's words are reflected in the way citizens of the Dominican Republic describe their racial identities: "oscuro" for the darkest skinned, "canela" for those of medium hue, and "claro" for those with the lightest complexions. All are referred to as "Indians." None are referred to as "black." That word is only used to describe persons from the nation occupying the western one-third of Hispaniola, their shared Caribbean island.

Much of Dominican self-identity is rooted in the Republic's long-standing rivalry with neighboring Haiti. Although Dominicans most closely identify with their former Spanish colonizers, their Independence Day, Feb. 27, celebrates the country's victory over Haiti in 1844. Antecedently, Haiti had ruled the Dominican Republic for 22 years. Although the two countries have not fought any wars since then, this period of subjugation has remained in Dominicans' collective consciousnesses.
Historical Prejudice Against Haitians

"There is a historical anti-Haitian feeling [among Dominicans]. They see Haitians as the enemy; as the people who can eventually take the whole island," says Dr. Miguel Anibal Perdomo, professor of Dominican Identity and Literature at Hunter College in New York City. Added to this collective bias is the view among many Dominicans that Haitians are culturally, economically, and socially inferior. Such stereotyping is characterized by the general distain for Haitian religious and cultural practices - referred to as "voodoo" - and for the recent election-related violence, joining the international perception of Haiti as a nation spinning out of control.

Part of this anti-Haitian sentiment may lie in the way Dominicans view themselves. As in many Caribbean societies, skin color is often correlated with social and economic mobility. A booming industry has developed around the practice of straightening the otherwise naturally frizzy hair of many Dominican women. According to Cristina Jackson, 34, who moved to New York from the Dominican Republic ten years ago, skin color is a sign of social status: "Marrying a white man or a white woman is often viewed as strategic so as to 'improve the race,'" she said. Indeed, during the regime of Dominican General Rafael Trujillo (1930-1961), immigration from Europe and the United States was openly encouraged as a means of further whitening the population - a melting pot of Spanish, African, and Taino Indian. The upper classes tended to be of European stock.
Deportation Policy Bias

Anti-Haitian bias is most noticeable in the Dominican Republic's deportation policies, aimed not only at both legal and illegal Haitian workers, but also at Dominicans of Haitian descent and children born to Haitian parents. According to Thompson, over 15,000 Haitians have been deported from the Dominican Republic since May 2005. Many were simply seized, then dropped off at the Haitian border; a country which the deportees had likely never visited before. In addition, Haitian mothers are often denied birth certificates for newborn children delivered in Dominican hospitals, further complicating later proofs of Dominican citizenship. According to Thompson, "the Dominican Republic's response to Haitian births is 'we don't grant birth certificates because Haitians are in transit.'" While the Dominican constitution guarantees citizenship to all persons born within the country's borders, the law excludes those who are only briefly passing through on their way to some other destination. In a May 2002 report, Human Rights Watch called upon the Dominican government to establish a standard of due process in expelling illegal Haitian immigrants, while guaranteeing the rights of those granted citizenship due to their birth within the country as set out in their constitution.

Officially, the Dominican government has publicly condemned the systematic abuse of Haitians. Yet such condemnations have done little to allay Haitian anger towards the Dominican government and its president, Leonel Fernandez, whom many blame for the prevailing anti-Haitian sentiment. During his most recent visit to Haiti in Dec. 2005, riots outside the presidential palace in Port-au-Prince forced Fernandez to cut short his visit with interim President Boniface Alexandre.

According to the Christian Science Monitor, between 700,000 and one million Haitians are living illegally in the Dominican Republic. Despite the Republic's 17 percent unemployment rate, most come looking for low-paid, unskilled labor work, mainly in the sugar plantations which line the Haitian-Dominican border. Not unlike the United States, the Dominican Republic is dependent on the availability of cheap labor to meet the demands of a growing economy. However, with the current political turmoil in Haiti, the influx of refugees has swelled in recent months. According to a Feb. 7 report by the Miami Herald, mob violence and random acts of violence against Haitians has been on the rise, due both to competition for jobs and racial discrimination.
Denial of African Roots

Much of this weighs heavily on the minds of transplanted Dominicans in places like New York. "For me, this is very embarrassing," said Perdomo, a medium-complexioned Dominican who arrived in the United States 15 years ago. He believes that the decision to shift away from embracing an African heritage began centuries ago: "There was a sense of 'deculturación' among the African slaves of Hispaniola. [There was] an attempt to erase any vestiges of African culture from the Dominican Republic. We were, in some way, brainwashed and we've become westernized."

Yet, upon arriving in New York, many Dominicans find that they face prejudices similar to those reserved for only the darkest among them in their home country. "Dominicans only discover the truth about not being white when they arrive in New York City," said Perdomo. Betsy Uribe, 33, who emigrated from the Dominican Republic in Oct. 2004, concurred: "I'm not saying we don't have racial problems; the rich will never allow a black to become president. People in the DR will say 'we don't discriminate,' but then they'll make excuses why they don't want them."

I have read the first two of 26 pages of online discussion. I see nothing there showing that Dominicans are factually innaccurate in considering themselves a "race." Your posting privileges are hereby suspended until midnight, July 19th. If you want to discuss your suspension, please post to the Site Management Forum.

I really appreciate your perspective and thank you for posting the article. There's a way to talk about anti-African and/or anti-Black prejudice within a culture without imposing an outsider's view. I can't even speak about Dominican/Haitian relations to my older Haitian relatives without someone getting really upset.

Of course others from the DR have disagreed with you on this before. You, yourself are light skinned. In Peru, I would have never considered you Black. And your ancestry is from English speaking Islands who migrated to the DR. The South of the DR has a a stronger identification with theri African decent especially because of the more recent migrations of Afro-Americans and Cocolos from other islands. Yes, there are those who deny their African roots, but their are others that just identify with all theri roots more or see themselves as a creolized people.

Olorun's post (and the material included in it) makes two major points which give me a opportunity to explain once again the policy of this web site. The first point is that Dominicans refuse to consider themselves "black." The second point is that this attitude is morally reprehensible on their part.

The first point is a statement of fact for which a great deal of persuasive evidence has been presented by Olorun and others. Statements of fact, backed by evidence (preferably peer-reviewed sources) are the golden nuggets of this website. They are the treasure that attacts between 500 and 1000 visitors per day, most of whom come from colleges (domain suffix ".edu"). This web site could not exist without our members graciously posting frequent statements of fact, especially little-known facts, that are reliably evidenced. For this I thank you all.

Olorun's second point is a statement of moral judgment. Statements of moral judgment do not attract visitors because they are a dime a dozen on the web. They are the chaff through which visitors must sift in order to find the nuggets of fact. As site administrator, I do not discourage statements of moral judgment. I tolerate them because members (like Olorun, in this case) often post nuggets of facts precisely because they consider them morally significant. If I discouraged statements of moral judgment, fewer members would post facts.

But I will not tolerate factually inaccurate statements, statements that are simply made up. Not for a moment. If teachers began to suspect that some of the information presented here were falsified, they would stop sending students here. If students stopped coming, our stream of visitors would dry up, this web site would become no different than thousands of other untrustworthy sites, and we would simply shut down. This web site's very survival depends on the accuracy of the facts presented. Please, please remember this. Do not make factual claims in this web site that you cannot back up. Never. Not once.

Salsassin wrote:

Gentlemen, is there a point to this puerile silliness? I am not in a good mood today. Get to a tangible point or I will cut you both off.

Here are four simple questions:

(1) What fraction of Dominicans admit African ancestry while simultaneously denying being "black" (as do most Puerto Ricans). Do either of you know? Can either of you find out?

(2) What percentage of Dominicans deny (obviously counterfactually) that they have any transatlantic slave ancestry at all?

(3) Given that some (unknown fraction of) Dominicans admit to having some African ancestry while simultaneously denying that they are Black, why is this morally reprehensible? In what way does it harm their society or anyone else's.

(4) Given that some (unknown fraction of) Dominicans deny (counterfactually) that they have any transatlantic slave ancestry at all, why is this morally reprehensible? In what way does it harm their society or anyone else's.

Either get to the point, gentlemen, come up with some tangible facts, or give it a rest. My patience today has worn very thin.

Greetings Mr. Frank

Thanks for the opportunity. I understood your position and instructions, and apologize for my reaction to the remark. Given the situation and history in DR / Haiti, the answers to your questions are not so 'cut & dry' -- if they were, I believe the problems would be solved. As far as I'm concerned is over on my part.

PEACE