The Study of Racialism

Tell me about it! The Araucanians were supremely skilled and innovative soldiers. (I say "soldiers" rather than "warriors" because the former denotes disciplined and managed organization; the latter merely reflects courage and skill. Soldiers consistently defeat warriors.) The wars against the Araucanias were examples of well-organized military against equally well-organized military.

I take those wars personally. On my mother's side I have quite a bit of Arawak (Taino) blood. But on my father's side, my distant ancestor, Juan Valiente (the first to carry our family surname <apellido>) served under Diego de Almagro in the failed conquest of Chile in 1535-37 and under Pedro de Valdivia in the successful conquest of Chile in 1550-51. He was granted hidalgo status and an encomienda (a village of Native Americans to serve as hereditary forced laborers) by Holy Roman Emperor Charles V. He was killed in combat against the Araucanians (who were not defeated until 1883). Fortunately, he already had a son who survived or I would not be here to write this. I have not read Ercilla's "La Araucana" but I plan to do so.

And, for readers who self-identify as African (specifically, as a descendant the Bantu-speaking peoples), you should know that Shaka, who founded the Zulu empire, was one of the three or four most brilliant military geniuses that the world has ever seen. On his own, he independently invented what Marius of Rome called "the manipular legion"--weapons, tactics, organizational structure, the works. The Romans used that organization to conquer the known world. Shaka could have done the same had he not lived two millennia too late and faced repeating rifles. I would love to tell you guys the story of Isandhlwana and Rorke's Drift from the Zulu viewpoint if anyone is interested. (It has nothing to do with "race" other than that one side happened to be Zulu Africans and the other was Welsh Brits.)

Ah, well. I had better shut up now. It is clear that my first love research-wise is military history, as is my masters'.

Okay. I'm sold. But if I don't like it I shall come here and bitch at you. (If I do like it, I shall write a review for Gordon's forum.)

LOL/ At least I'll get a a genuine FS review.

And yet admixture levels are much higher in the north than in the south. Do you think there is a causation relationship there?

Source, please. If you mean African DNA in Whites, I think that Louisiana, East Texas, and the Cumberland Plateau are much higher (5%) than anything found up north (1%).

Or did you mean European DNA in Blacks? If so, Louisiana and East Texas are still high (20%) but, you're right, Philadelphia and Boston are right up there also (15-18% IIRC). If this is what you mean, then Philadelphia and Boston are what would have to be explained. Looked at the other way, we could ask why the Blacks of the Sea Islands of SC, GA, and FL have such little European admixture, since South SC had a great deal of intermarriage.

In short, LA, TX, and most of the north make sense. In most of the South, admixture is high in both Blacks and Whites due to the high intermarriage rate. And in much of the North (the midwest, anyway), admixture is low in both Blacks and Whites due to the low intermarriage rate.

The problems are in coastal SC on the one hand, and in Philadelpia and Boston on the other. Coastal SC has high admixture in Whites but low in Blacks, while Philadelphia and Boston have high admixture in Blacks but low in Whites.

One possibility (and this is just speculation) is that today's admixture also depends on color line permeability. In SC where intermarriage was high, more white DNA flowed into the Black community. But in SC White-looking young adults with Black parents were more likely to be accepted as White. And so the European genes flowed right back out again to the White community, carried in the bodies of such individuals as they passed through the color line. Conversely, in Philadephia and Boston, where intermarriage was rare, social tolerance of passing was also nil, so the little European DNA that flowed into the Black community became trapped there, lightening the Black community without affecting the White.

Like I say, this is just idle speculation and I would hate to be made to defend it.

Hi Frank!

Jesus! You got such a strong link to my land that I am very surprised, and happy to know it!



They were outstanding, indeed. But it was not a casuality. Lautaro was their military genious. He was captured by Valdivia (the conquestador) in a raid were many of their tribe were brutally killed. Valdivia trained him as his personal military servant and he loved Lautaro like his son. However, Lautaro escaped and trained the Araucanos in military tactics against the invaders. His memory was preserved in "La Araucana", the only epic poem written about the Native American warriors, as far as I know.
There are plans to film a movie about Lautaro. I hope they finish in a good movie.



What an envy, Frank To have Arawak blood is the saint Grial of the descendents of Natives.



My Lord ! Then your ancestors are directly related to the history of my country. To have that kind of link would fire the imagination and pride of any Chilean.



The world is small, isn't it. And I am sure that when you read that book you will admire a lot more what your ancestors did.

And Zulues have been the best warriors of Africa. No doubt about it.

Regards,

Omar Vega

----- Original Message -----
From: L Luca Cavalli-Sforza
To: Jaime Pretell
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 1:48 PM
Subject: Re: From a review of your book, Genes, Peoples and Languages


Dear Mr.Pretell, There must have been many hundreds of scientific papers in the last fifty years on the problem of admixture of Afircan-americans. 30% is the average of many investigations, but it varies according to individuals and by state. Northern US states have higher admixtures, close to 50%, and southern states have close to 10% - variable greatly also by city. The scientific papers might be hard to read, and I do not know of any popular science book specifically about it. Howard University has several Genetics professors who are likely to be aware of such books and perhaps have authored them. You can find their addresses through the Internet. Sincerely
Luca Cavalli-Sforza
----- Original Message -----
From: Jaime Pretell
To: L Luca Cavalli-Sforza
Sent: Sunday, October 30, 2005 6:53 AM
Subject: From a review of your book, Genes, Peoples and Languages


Hello professor, I just read this online from a review of your book and wanted to know if you could provide me with a name of the study that came up with this statistic to look it up, thank you beforehand:

"Black Americans have... an average of 30 percent of White admixture in their genes"

Could I have some sources (and links for this if possible)?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_American








I remember reading about this case in PEOPLE Magazine. The article said that Stebbins was born to parents who were white-identified and his siblings were also white-identified. His political opponent obtained a copy of Stebbins' birth certificate saying that both his parents were white. There was no evidence that Stebbins had any recent black ancestry. He was married to a black woman, wore a "Caucasian Afro," and claimed to be "black."


The black Egyptian classified as white is Mostafa Hefny.

http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/16/racial.suit/

http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/002052.html

Thank you.

Really? I have never heard of this. Why would this be? As far as I know, in precolumbian times the Arawak-speaking people island-hopped northwards from Terra Firme all the way to southern Florida. The two major Arawak-speaking tribes in the Caribbean were the Tainos and the Caribes. Almost all Puerto Ricans (and presumably Cubans and Dominicans) have Native American ancestry. The article titled "Mitochondrial DNA Analysis Reveals Substantial Native American Ancestry in Puerto Rico," which you can download from William's admixture studies page http://backintyme.com/ODR/viewtopic.php?t=1071, tells all about it. We have discussed this here, as I recall. Of course, DNA cannot identify the specific tribe, so I might well be Carib rather than Taino, but all Caribbean tribes spoke languages of the Arawak family.

Regarding Euro DNA in African Americans:

http://backintyme.com/admixture/collins01.pdf (2002) p742 shows 20 percent mean based on microsatellites and indels. 75% of the samples were from northern California and 25 % were from all over the U.S.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/collins02.pdf (2002) p. 568 shows about 18 percent (all from northern California) just by eyeballing the scatter diagram.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/fernandez01.pdf (2003) p. 907 shows 17 percent in Alabama, 19 percent in Maryland, and 17 percent in New York. Unfortunately, the 95% confidence interval was +/- 15 percent.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/hoggart01.pdf (2003) p. 1497 shows 22 percent in Washington DC.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/kayser01.pdf (2003) p. 628 shows a range of 11 percent to 33 percent, highest in NY, OR and PA, lowest in MD, MO, and TX. The 95% confidence interval was around 5 percent.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/parra01.pdf (1998) p. 1847 shows a range: from lows of 7 percent (Sapelo Island GA) and 11 percent (Charleston SC), to highs of 20 percent (Pittsburgh) and 23 percent (New Orleans). All have very tight confidence intervals (around +/- 1%). This is probably the best study to start with.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/parra02.pdf (2001) p. 21 shows a close-up view of SC, with ranges from 3.5 percent (Geechee/Gullah) to 18 percent (Columbia) with good confidence intervals (although not as good as the prior study).

http://backintyme.com/admixture/parra03.pdf (2004) p. 556 shows 21.3 overall, but does not give regional breakdown.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/shriver01.pdf (2001) p. 391 shows 18.6% +/- 1.5% in Washington DC.

http://backintyme.com/admixture/wang01.pdf (2003) p.760 shows 10 regions, raging from lows of 12 percent (Charleston) and 14 percent (one Philadelphia neighborhood) to highs of 23 percent (New Orleans, a different Philadelphia neighborhood) and 21 percent (Pittsburgh and New York). Mediocre (but not horrible) confidence intervals.

For historical studies of gender-directionality of intermarriages, see the references and citations about Boston in http://backintyme.com/Essay050801.htm and the summary of the late Gary Mills's work in http://backintyme.com/Essay041015.htm.

Regarding Cavalli-Sforza's 30+ percent, I suggest that the great man has fallen out of the loop in this particular sub-sub-sub-specialty.

Oops. Sorry. I got a bit carried away there. You were just asking about gender asymmetry. This would be

http://backintyme.com/admixture/kayser01.pdf

http://backintyme.com/admixture/parra01.pdf

http://backintyme.com/admixture/parra02.pdf

http://backintyme.com/admixture/wang01.pdf

and, of course, the two historical studies.

Cool. I agree with your last two posts, by the way.

Hey, this is Stebbins


Do you have any records of inter'racial'marriage statistics by gender pre 1967?

What about Native American DNA?

Cool! Thanks a lot. I have often wondered what he looked like. To me, he does not look as African as Mostafa Hefny.


Sure. Phil345 just asked the same thing. See my last post at http://backintyme.com/ODR/viewtopic.php?p=5296#5296. I could break it down by region, if you like. Are you looking for anything in particular?

Hi,

Wrong list!

I have tried for a long time to get reliable figure of Native American admixture in whites and, believe me or not, it seems U.S. scientists have not taken the time to make those studies as yet. There is a figure of 6% that appeared like a subproduct of a study of admixture between Blacks and Whites. But there is not a single serious and complete study about admixture between Whites and Natives, as far as I know.

It seems to me in North America, and also in Brazil, White people care so little about Native American admixture that they have not financed those studies as yet. I believe it is very likely, when they finally make then, they find out as much Native DNA as in "white Argentina"

Native Americans assimilated without leaving many traces, so it is not surprising that populations of Dominican Republic, Cuba and Brazil, for example, have a lot of Native genetics. And also Argentina. In those countries Natives "are known" to be extinct or to be very few.

Regards,

Omar Vega

I agree. There has not been a lot of work done on this. Part of the problem may be that, whereas European colonists in Latin America insinuated themselves into existing military empires to exploit the peasants for their labor, those in north America essentially exterminated the native hunter/gatherers and neolithic-technology farmers in order to appropriate their land. Hence, there is more native DNA admixture in Latin Americans than there is North Americans.

Still, some of the studies in the "United States of America" section of William's admixture studies list have figures for this (as a byproduct of Afro-European study, as Omar pointed out). I would just browse through them and see what you can turn up. Also, there is always pubmed.

Hi Frank,

Do you have the link to the study?

Thanks,

Omar Vega

Here's are New York Times articles on Mark Stebbins.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F6081EFE3E5F0C728CDDA00894DD484D81





http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F10F12F83B5C0C728EDDAB0994DC484D81




May 13, 1984
No Headline
Headliners


http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9A04E5D61E38F930A25756C0A962948260&pagewanted=print

Color Him Victorious In Germany, John F. Kennedy called himself a Berliner and drew cheers. In California, Mark Stebbins called himself black and was accused of lying.

Further, the matter of his race became the main issue in a recall election last week in Stockton, where Mr. Stebbins has served on the City Council since last fall. The recall challenge was mounted by Ralph White, who is black and served on the Council before Mr. Stebbins deposed him in a district whose residents are 46 percent Hispanic and 37 percent black. Mr. White accused Mr. Stebbins of deceiving the voters by calling himself black. Mr. Stebbins, who has white skin, blue eyes and a birth certificate that lists both parents as white, said that about 20 years ago he decided that because he felt black he must be black. Whatever his race, he was a winner last week, retaining his seat.

http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F50A11FE355C0C738DDDAC0894DC484D81



http://select.nytimes.com/gst/abstract.html?res=F40B11FA3A5C0C7B8CDDAC0894DC484D81

ISSUE IN OUSTER VOTE ON COAST IS WHETHER OFFICIAL IS BLACK
*Please Note: Archive articles do not include photos, charts or graphics. More information. May 8, 1984, Tuesday
By CAROLE RAFFERTY (NYT); National Desk
Late City Final Edition, Section A, Page 14, Column 3, 671 words

DISPLAYING FIRST 50 OF 671 WORDS -The major issue in an election Tuesday to decide whether Mark Stebbins will remain on the City Council of this central California city is his race. The Councilman, who has curly light brown hair, blue eyes, white skin and, according to his birth certificate, white parents, says he is...