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 Post subject: Beautiful kids
PostPosted: Wed 09 Nov 2005 20:07 
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But are they an example of admixture or the great variability of human kind? I beleive the later.

Solomons
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Aborigines
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PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2005 20:48 
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They ARE adorable

I love the look of mixture

So exotic

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2005 22:18 
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I am not sure that they represent Euro-aboriginal mixture. I seem vaguely to recall that aboriginal children are often blonde (although their hair usually darkens at puberty). This is why the "Rabbit Proof Fence" situation was so ambiguous and self-contradictory.

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PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2005 22:34 
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fwsweet wrote:
I am not sure that they represent Euro-aboriginal mixture. I seem vaguely to recall that aboriginal children are often blonde (although their hair usually darkens at puberty). This is why the "Rabbit Proof Fence" situation was so ambiguous and self-contradictory.

Exactly. people tend to assume mix when these people looked like that on their own.

Reminds me of all the claims of Olmecs being African. When i showed those people pictures of natives of the area, they immeadiately tried to claim admixture.


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PostPosted: Thu 10 Nov 2005 22:35 
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Liana wrote:
They ARE adorable

I love the look of mixture

So exotic

B

Gotcha! They aren't mixed. :wink:


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PostPosted: Fri 11 Nov 2005 00:27 
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Hi guys

What i meant was, the mixtrue of light hair and/or eyes and dark skin. I didn't mean that they necessarily came from a (recent, known) mixed background

Gotcha again!

I guess I need to express myself more clearly

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PostPosted: Fri 11 Nov 2005 16:17 
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You know i like ribbin you B.

Much love.


PS. Which light eyes?


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PostPosted: Sat 19 Nov 2005 08:41 
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The South Pacific is a beautiful place, has beautiful people, and a beautiful culture.
I wish the Missionaries would stay the hell out. They make everything ugly.

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PostPosted: Tue 22 Nov 2005 20:17 
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Hi salsassin

The third pic down - their eyes look light - it is hard to tell tho on a monitor

The first pic - the rims of the eyes are blue - so not sure if eyes are blue and it is my monitor or if they are dark

In any event they sure are cute

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov 2005 14:32 
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The photo clearly shows the craniofacial features associated with Australian Aborigines: prominent brow ridge, broad nose, prognathism (protruding lower face). These features also appear, but less prominently, among the natives of Papua/New Guinea. For years physical anthropologists thought that these features delineated an "Australoid race." Furthermore, since H. erectus also had prominent brows, some even suggested that Aborigines were a sapiens/erectus hybrid.

As it turns out, these notions were wrong on three counts. First, meticulous tabulation of craniofacial features as well as DNA markers show that there is no such thing as an "Australoid race" (any more than there is any other "race"). Every human trait varies independently over the globe. Populations with the most prominent brows are not those with the greatest prognathism, etc. Second, the ancestors of today's Australians had skulls that were similar to today's inhabitants of southeast Asia (Vietnamese, Thais, Laotians, etc.). Apparently, today's Aboriginal features are mere familiy resemblances that were common among the small band that colonized Australia 50kya. Third, far from having erectus DNA, the Aborigines are close genetic kin to all the other non-Africans who descend from the out-of-Africa band who crossed the Straits of Bab-el-Mandeb 70kya. (Also, H. erectus had a receding chin, narrow nose, and two widely separated ridges, one over each eye; Aborigines have protruding chin, wide nose, and only one ridge that spans the face.) Physicians searching for an organ donor match know that Australian Aborigines are more closely related to, say, Englishmen than typical adjacent Nigerian populations are related to each other. (As explained in my essay The Paleo-Etiology of Human Skin Tone, the dark skin tone adaptation is a feature that all of us -- save Amerinds -- carry in our genes; it is triggered whenever a population migrates to low latitudes.)

The lesson is that, for whatever reason, we are hard-wired to find otherness in those whose features are unfamiliar. But our "instinct" for otherness hinges on trivial superfical family resemblances. Our intellect understands how very closely related all members of our species are under the skin.

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PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov 2005 19:17 
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MivharMeni wrote:
The South Pacific is a beautiful place, has beautiful people, and a beautiful culture.
I wish the Missionaries would stay the hell out. They make everything ugly.


Could you elaborate? And hasn't the damage been done already since most (?) people in the South Pacific are Christian and have been for some time?


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 Post subject: Beautiful kids
PostPosted: Wed 23 Nov 2005 19:51 
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Nice pictures. Are people from the Solomons Malenesians? Does Malenesian refer to a variety of groups within a location (the South Pacific)or to a specific ethnicity/cultural group within the South Pacific? Are the origins of some Malenesians more mixed (for lack of a better way of wording it) than other groups?

The reason why I'm asking is because I came across some pictures of Fijians (I was looking for exotic vacation spots). Many of them look strikingly like "black" people in the U.S., but look nothing like the kids from the Solomon Islands. I thought Fijians (native Fijians) were Malenesian. Are they?

Fijians:
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PostPosted: Thu 24 Nov 2005 02:43 
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Don't forget that Afro-American admixture has produced many features that resemble many people out of Africa. I have Afro-American friends that resembe everything from Philipino, Indian, to polynesian.


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G-Man wrote:
MivharMeni wrote:
The South Pacific is a beautiful place, has beautiful people, and a beautiful culture.
I wish the Missionaries would stay the hell out. They make everything ugly.


Could you elaborate? And hasn't the damage been done already since most (?) people in the South Pacific are Christian and have been for some time?


Not all, there are small pockets, but nor christianized yet.

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PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2005 11:56 
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I found a cline map of Austalian Aboriginal hair color.
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PostPosted: Tue 13 Dec 2005 16:19 
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fwsweet wrote:
I found a cline map of Austalian Aboriginal hair color.
Image

Some of those spots, the kids start out with an almost platinum blond coloring.

People of New Guinea / Solomon Isles tend to have kinky hair that remains blond and light brown.

Rabaul
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Solomon Isles
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PostPosted: Sun 26 Mar 2006 17:42 
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More Rabaul
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Malaita
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Australia
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On another forum they claimed that these kids were all just part of the Lost generation. I wonder about that.

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(Click on picture)

Also they claimed that kids thal looked just like the Solomonians existed in the Caribbean.


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Mar 2006 13:32 
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Thanks for sending these Jaime,

I love to see the shock on mostly white peoples faces when they see these. Most people in the this country don't even realize the ethnicity of Australia and the other Islands around it.

I guess the Neo Nazi's don't have a claim on the blond hair after all


Salsassin wrote:
More Rabaul
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Malaita
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Australia
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On another forum they claimed that these kids were all just part of the Lost generation. I wonder about that.

Image
(Click on picture)

Also they claimed that kids thal looked just like the Solomonians existed in the Caribbean.

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"I am Black & I am White, and know there is no difference. Each 1 casts a shadow, and all shadows are dark." -Walter White


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PostPosted: Mon 27 Mar 2006 19:08 
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http://www.gnxp.com/blog/2005/08/blonde ... ginals.php

Quote:
Friday, August 19, 2005


Blonde Australian Aboriginals


It's really frustrating when you can't find information via google, but, it just reminds you how shallow the the data mining of search engine crawlers can be. On this weblog people have mentioned blondeness among Australian Aboriginals multiple times, and ultimately we really haven't gotten anywhere (no one has brought up novel data) because no one has any information to offer aside from what they read in C.S. Coon's books when they were younger. There isn't much out there on the web.

Luckily, I decided to check the local college library, and I found Joseph Birdsell's Microevolutionary Patterns in Aboriginal Australia, which has a large section addressing the issue of blondeness among the indigenous people of the antipodal continent. Below, I will summarize most of Birdsell's data and analysis so that google will at least have this to crawl now.

But first, I want to address a minor point that often comes up. One hypothesis about Australian Aboriginal blondeness is that it is due to admixture with Europeans, in particular Dutch sailors who entered into undocumented liasons with native women prior to British colonization. This to me seems like a ludicrous assertion for the following reason: if the blonde alleles introgressed from another population, they can be thought of as proxies for the ancestral admixture of Western Europeans into these tribes. Though a very high frequency of tribal members exhibit preadult blondeness, there are almost no other European diagnostic phenotypes in evidence! That is, their skins are rather dark and their features classically Australian Aboriginal. Most people talk about European blondeness as if it is a recessive trait. I have issues with that simple idea, but, taking it at face value the frequency of blonde alleles in a panmictic population should be higher than the frequency of the blonde phenotype,1 so we are talking about a rather high level of admixture if the blondeness is due to European ancestry. On the other hand, there are no other visible signs of this ancestry. One could hypothesize of course that the initially low frequency (attained via admixture) spread through the population because of positive directional selection on the trait. So in that case the alleles are of European origin, but the frequency of blondeness is not diagnostic of ancestry because it is not a neutral trait. But Birdsell's data points away from a European origin for blondeness, and many of the recollections of readers of GNXP are correct as to the character of this trait among Australian Aboriginals.

To review, there are two primary melanin pigments, dark eumelanin and red-gold pheomelanin. The dosage of these two pigments results in the various hair colors we see in people. Redheads tend to have a great amount of pheomelanin, but almost no eumelanin. Ash blonde people are the reverse when it comes to pheomelanin, while golden blonde individuals tend to be somewhere in the middle. People with auburn hair have relatively high levels of both. But note that pheomelanin is more diffuse and less abundant, and it is no a surprise that black haired individuals may simply mask their "red" pigment. Many people with black hair (including yours truly) go through a "red blonde" phase during hair bleaching, as the dense eumelanin granules are stripped away by the bleaching agents first. It seems that the expression of the phenotype is dependent on many genes, though a few, like MC1R, have an outsized influence (perhaps through regulation of other loci). This is probably one reason that despite the typological division of Europeans into "blondes," "brunettes" and "redheads," there tends to be a continuous gradation of color. Not only do the combinations of eumelanin and pheomelanin dosage add "mixed" categories (strawberry blonde, auburn) to the triplet, the expression of these pigments is not an "on" or "off" matter as one would expect if one locus was at the heart of the process. I have made the repeated argument that the "recessive" character of blondism and the "dominant" character of brunette hair is partially an artifact of how we classify hair color. All the various non-blonde hair colors, from brown to black are slotted into the "dominant" category, when I would argue that even among black haired people there is a wide variance of pigment concentration of eumelanin that visual inspection might miss, for example between a light skinned Japanese individual and someone from southern India or Africa (basically, one can not get below a certain level of reflective, so all the extra melanin does not register any change in color).

Now, to the Australian Aboriginals.

1) The perception (based I assume in color plates in older anthropology books) that the blonde Aboriginals were ash in their coloration is correct. The reason, according to Birdsell, is that they exhibit very little pheomelanin in their hair. Of course there is a lack of eumelanin in the hair samples as well. Unfortunately Birdsell did not assay the concentration of granules quantitatively, but inspected them visually under a microscope. Nevertheless, he saw what was going on at the proximate level pretty well. It wasn't, to consider an outlandish example, a case where a yellow pigment was being produced that obscured the eumelanin.

2) There is both sexual dimorphic and paedomorphic tendencies to the trait. In short, pre-pubescent children are blonder, as are females.

3) This is not a rare trait that is expressed by a few individuals in many tribes. Rather, the frequency of the phenotype can approach 90-100% in children, and still remain significant even in adult males. Also, the "darkening" is often to a brown color, rather than black.

4) Birdsell suggests that the allele which causes this blondeness, in reality the loss of function or expression of both traits (dark and red pigment), is characterized by "incomplete dominance." The frequencies for the expression of the trait are extremely high. If it was a "recessive" trait the allele(s) must be close to fixed. I don't find his arguments persuasive because he didn't mention crosses between dark haired aboriginals and blonde aboriginals, in part because the unmixed peoples of this sort (that is, without European ancestry) are also not likely to go on cross-continental searches for husbands or brides from other Aboriginal groups. But, that being said, Birdsell offers the following observation: hybrids between Europeans and dark-haired (eastern) Aboriginals never exhibit hair that is lighter than brown. Obviously, not all Europeans are blonde, or carry blonde genes, but the conclusion of blonde phenotypic recessiveness is hammered home. Hybrids between blonde Aborigines and Europeans almost always exhibited the ash blonde phenotype of the Aborigines as children. I don't put too much stock in terms like "incomplete dominance," aside from that it is saying "hey, we don't know much about this gene." Nevertheless, I think the hybrid phenotype is a strong line of evidence that it isn't localized on the same part of the genome as the blonde loss-of-function alleles in Europeans. Crosses between dark haired Europeans and blonde Europeans do not almost always result in blonde children (many times the children are blonde and they become dark haired as they develop, but, Birdsell seems to suggest that inheritance pattern is more deterministic when one of the parents is an Australian Aboriginal blonde).

5) Birdsell notes that the blonde phenotype does not apply to all body hair. Almost all the rest of the body hair is rather dark, the only exception being the hairs on the forearm, which tend to be even blonder (that is, those who darken with adulthood retain blonde forearm hair).

I would like to end with a tentative hypothesis. Obviously Birdsell is trying to convey the impression that this is a trait that is "incompletely dominant," even though it is a "loss of function" trait (eumelanin and pheomelanin seem to not be found in the hair). The "incompletely dominant" part suggests that there is a locus of large effect at work here. Additionally, Birdsell only mentions gradation in hair color as a function of development or maturation, not population. What I mean by this is that one doesn't get the impression of individuals with light brown or dark blonde shades as youth who become black haired as adults. Continuity (normalish distribution) is a feature of polygenic traits, while discrete or binary tendencies are exhibited by classical mendellian traits. With this in mind, I offer that perhaps these Australian Aboriginals carry an allele which results in the synthesis of a trans-acting factor which suppresses gene expression on the loci which control for melanin production (or, it could be interfering with a crucial regulatory step). This suppression is obviously dependent on factors relating to development and cell-cell differentiation, because the melanin is found in copious amounts in other body hairs as well as in the skin. A sequencing of the loci which we know affect melanin dosage might not turn up anything out of the ordinary in comparison to other dark skinned people. In contrast, I suspect many Europeans have multiple polymorphisms which result in the overall reduction in melanin production via melanocytes throughout their skin, their body hair as well as their irises.

So why is this trait expressed in frequencies of 90%+ (that is, adults who started out ash blonde as youth) in the west-central deserts of Australia? Birdsell doesn't offer any selectionist reason, and I can't think of any environmental ones. There was obviously constraint on skin color, which makes sense in light of the protection that dark skin confers against radiation. The only thing I can come up with is sexual or social selection (ie; it might have been preferences for a particular type of child as opposed to males and females choosing each other for this trait). But it is basically a default hypothesis (I do not credit genetic drift in this case, but I do not know the demographic history of these tribes, so that is a possibility I suppose). Also, blondism might just be a byproduct of the allele's function, which we do not know yet (or, we know it, but have not made the connection).

I was going to scan the map up, but I'm having some driver issues, so no go in that direction (if someone wants to find the book and scan it up and put it on flickr I will link to it-it's on page 196). Descriptively, you have a modal frequency of this phenotype in the middle of western Australia of 90-100%. The frequency drops off to around 50% by the southwest coast and the geographic center of the continent, and more sharply north toward Arnehm Land until the phenotype is almost nonexistent on the north coast. The phenotype is absent from the eastern third of the continent. Overall, one can imagine an area of the map where the phenotype is absent like a crescent, thick and rotund in the southeast, and becoming a relative sliver as it arcs around the zone of blondeness around its northern edge.

Related: Black and strawberry.

1 - p2 + 2pq + q2 = 1. The "recessive" allele is usually signified by q. The q2 is the frequency of expression of the recessive phenotype, so for example, if the blonde allele is present in a frequency of 0.5 throughout the random mating population, 1/4 of the individuals will express it. If a population is 1/2 blonde, than 70% of the alleles floating in the population are blonde. So, if you had a tribe that was 50% blonde, if blonde alleles are neutral (no selective advantage), ignoring drift one could assume that 70% of the ancestry was European if the alleles had to have come from that source population. Of course, I don't think that the dominance-recessive concept really works well a lot of the time, and I certainly don't think that blondism is a one locus mendellian trait, contrary what they taught us in high school.

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PostPosted: Tue 28 Mar 2006 01:01 
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Thanks!!


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