The Study of Racialism

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 Post subject: The paper bag test
PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2005 00:45 
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MAXWELL

By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003

Each year, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission receives about 85,000 discrimination cases, a phenomenon to be expected in a society that touts itself as a "melting pot."

Many of these cases involve the complaints of minority groups against majority groups. We rarely expect a member of a minority group to discriminate against someone else in the same group. But that is exactly what happens among African-Americans.

More than any other minority group in the United States, blacks discriminate against one another. The discrimination, called "colorism," is based on skin tone: whether a person is dark-skinned or light-skinned or in the broad middle somewhere.

Most African-Americans refuse to discuss this self-destructive problem even in private. According to the EEOC, though, the number of such cases are steadily increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002, a figure that represents about 3 percent of all cases the agency receives yearly.

The most recent case making news in the black press involves two employees of an Applebee's restaurant in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta. There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter, who has left the restaurant, filed a lawsuit against Applebee's and his light-skinned African-American manager.

In the suit, Burch alleged that during his three-month stint, the manager repeatedly referred to him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby." The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin, and Burch was fired after he refused to do so, the suit states.

Colorism has a long and ugly history among American blacks, dating back to slavery, when light-skinned blacks were automatically given preferential treatment by plantation owners and their henchmen.

Colorism's history is fascinating: Fair-skinned slaves automatically enjoyed plum jobs in the master's house, if they had to work at all. Many traveled throughout the nation and abroad with their masters and their families. They were exposed to the finer things, and many became educated as a result. Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields. They were the ones who were beaten, burned and hanged, the ones permanently condemned to be the lowest of the low in U.S. society. For them, even learning - reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic - was illegal.

When slavery ended, light-skinned blacks established social organizations that barred darker ex-slaves. Elite blacks of the early 20th century were fair-skinned almost to the person. Even today, most blacks in high positions have fair skin tones, and most blacks who do menial jobs or are in prison are dark. Believe it or not, popular black magazines, such as Ebony as Essence, prefer light-skinned models in their beauty product ads.

For many years, entrance to special social events operated on the "brown paper bag" principle, which I will explain. Until quite recently, black fraternities and sororities, for example, recruited according to skin tone. Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes the problem, and Alice Walker's novel The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.

In his 1996 book The Future of the Race, Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the Afro-American studies department at Harvard, described his encounter with the brown paper bag when he came to Yale in the late 1960s, when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced: "Some of the brothers who came from New Orleans held a "bag party.' As a classmate explained it to me, a bag party was a New Orleans custom wherein a brown paper bag was stuck on the door.

"Anyone darker than the bag was denied entrance. That was one cultural legacy that would be put to rest in a hurry - we all made sure of that. But in a manner of speaking, it was replaced by an opposite test whereby those who were deemed "not black enough' ideologically were to be shunned. I was not sure this was an improvement."

Gates was overly optimistic. The brown paper bag test remains in black culture in various incarnations, as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's statistics confirm. We separate ourselves by skin tone almost as much as we ever did. If, say, you check out the "desired" female beauties in rap videos, you will find redbones galore.

Back to the Applebee's case. A spokesman for the chain issued this statement: "No one should have to put up with mean and humiliating comments about the color of their skin on the job. . . . It makes no difference that these comments are made by someone of your own race. Actually, that makes it even worse." Although the chain denied the allegations, it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.

Now for the irony of ironies: Applebee's has added a protection, along with cultural sensitivity training, against skin-tone discrimination to its antidiscrimination policies.

In other words, the company must protect African-Americans from other African-Americans.

Discrimination from whites and other groups remains a big problem for blacks. But colorism is just as serious, if not more so. Colorism saps our strength from the inside. It weakens our power and ability to fight the outside forces that keep us marginalized in larger society.


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 Post subject: The paper bag test
PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2005 17:27 
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This isn't the first time....There was a case in the late 80s or early 90s in Atlanta involving a light skinned black woman lodging a complaint of color harassment by her darker skinned supervisor. She made the rounds of the talk shows. I don't know what happened to the case, but I remember how incredulous people were when she came out with her story.

Among Latinos in the U.S. this happens, but it is rarely taked about inside or outside their communities. My cousin's husband-who is black and from Panama-attempted to join the Hispanic Chamber of Commerce in Atlanta. He told me he was made to feel less than welcome by many of the members.

A Haitian friend of mine who lives in Miami and speaks fluent Spanish told me this kind of color-based discrimination happens to some black Cubans and the hands of white and lighter Cubans there. He told me that it's not openly discussed and usually poo pooed (we're all Cubans, etc., so this doesn't happen) when others bring it up.


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2005 18:10 
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Well generally speaking, I never found it that serious a problem(in the AA community) besides the occasional annoyance seeing every show magically have a light skinned wife paired with a dark skinned husband and: 1.) have a daughter much lighter than the parents' cast and 2.)the sons being too darn dark to be the couples actual children...........

I've never witness blantant discrimination this man speaks of......


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PostPosted: Tue 13 Sep 2005 19:53 
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the occasional annoyance seeing every show magically have a light skinned wife paired with a dark skinned husband and: 1.) have a daughter much lighter than the parents' cast and 2.)the sons being too darn dark to be the couples actual children...........


Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

Original Mother
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New Version
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On a side note, I believe the actors who play the children - aside from Will Smith - identify as West Indian, Biracial, and Puerto Rican? I may be mistaken... Anyway, to U.S. viewers at least, I believe they were all seen as Black American young people.

Cosby Show
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Updated picture
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My Wife and Kids

Old Family (I know this is a very unclear picture but it's the only one I could find. It's almost as if the dark-skinned black daughter was never a part of the cast at least when it comes to finding images online...)
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New Family
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The two young women on the show are both obviously biracial. Jennifer Nicole Freeman has a black mom and I'm not sure of her fathers background. http://abc.go.com/primetime/mywifeandki ... eeman.html

Brooklyn Sudano is Donna Summer and Italian American Bruce Sudano's daughter.
http://abc.go.com/primetime/mywifeandki ... udano.html

I strongly suspect the younger children are as well. Especially that little boy Noah Gray-Cabey. As cute as a button!
http://abc.go.com/primetime/mywifeandki ... cabey.html

I also remember in the movie introducing Dorthy Dandridge, the little girl playing Halle's daughter was horribly miscast. She was blacker than either her, or the actor playing one of the Nicholas brothers. Her supposed father.

Also, in Monster's Ball, I thought the boy playing her obese son was miscast. He was also blacker than Halle and Puffy combined. He looked like a little Idi Amin.

There are probably countless other examples... I find it mildly offensive.

The casting in Feast of All Saints was also VERY strange and gentically impossible at times. Most - of course not all - "octoroons" and "quadroons" are indistinguishable from "pure" white or "Latin" people because they are majority white. Yet, in the film, this was not portrayed sufficiently IMO. With the exception of White/Black-Canadian/Chinese actress Nicole Lynn who played the quadroon daughter of actress Gloria Reuben.
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Felicia


Last edited by zsana on Thu 15 Sep 2005 01:08, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2005 12:48 
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zsana wrote:
Quote:
the occasional annoyance seeing every show magically have a light skinned wife paired with a dark skinned husband and: 1.) have a daughter much lighter than the parents' cast and 2.)the sons being too darn dark to be the couples actual children...........


Fresh Prince of Bel-Air

Original Mother
Image

New Version
Image

On a side note, I believe the actors who play the children - aside from Will Smith - identify as West Indian, Biracial, and Puerto Rican? I may be mistaken... Anyway, to U.S. viewers at least, I believe they were all seen as Black American young people.


Did a little search and it turns out Alphonso Ribiero is of Dominican descent. Here's some information about him from Wikipedia

Alfonso Ribeiro (born in New York City on September 21, 1971) is a Dominican-American actor and singer. His parents had immigrated to New York from the Dominican Republic.

He began his acting career on the drama Oye Willie at the age of eight. By the time he was ten, he had released such songs as: "Dance Baby", "Not Too Young", "Sneak Away with Me", and "Time Bomb." Ribeiro also starred in one of Michael Jackson's Pepsi commercials as a dancer. Ribeiro was also cast as Rick Schroder's best friend on the TV series Silver Spoons in 1984.

Ribeiro is best known for his role as spoiled rich-kid Carlton Banks in The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air, starring Will Smith, from 1990 to 1996. He also was the director of some episodes of The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air. The Carlton character was often called upon to do a comic dance routine to Tom Jones' "It's Not Unusual", which Ribeiro later stated as having hated doing. He is also known for his role on LL Cool J's show In the House and as host of Your Big Break. Ribeiro has acted and been part of the crew on many movies and TV shows. He has also appeared in Smith's "Wild Wild West" video in 1999, and in a McDonalds commercial in 2003.

He currently lives in Los Angeles and has developed an interest in auto racing. He is a two time winner of the Toyota Pro/Celebrity Race (in 1994 and 1995).


Tatyana Ali's information from the same source: Wikipedia

Tatyana Ali
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia.
Tatyana Marisol Ali (born January 24, 1979 in North Bellmore, New York) is an American actress and R&B singer. Ali is half Black and half Indian; her mother, Sonia Ali, is an Afro-Latino from Panama while her father, Sheriff Ali, is an Indo-Trinidadian from Trinidad and Tobago. Ali herself is a native of Long Island, New York.

At the age of four, Ali began singing, and by seven she won the Star Search television contest two times.

Ali's breakthrough came when she was cast as "Ashley Banks" for the popular television sitcom The Fresh Prince of Bel-Air.

She sang on various episodes of the show, and Will Smith asked her if she seriously considered pursuing a musical career. Despite her singing ability, she concentrated on her acting career on Fresh Prince the next few years.

In the penultimate season of Fresh Prince, Ali began preparing herself for her musical debut. The result was the album Kiss The Sky, which peaked at #6 on the Billboard 200. The album spawned the hit song Daydreamin.

Ali once dated American actor Jonathan Brandis († 2003).

In 2002, she graduated with a Bachelor's degree from Harvard University.

Soon after, she found relative difficulty getting back into show business. But as of 2005, she completed work on the film Glory Road and is recording her sophomore album.


She's also on the list of Latinos Incognitos (undercover Latinos): http://www.lasculturas.com/aa/spec/incognito.php


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2005 13:02 
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zsana wrote:
The casting in Feast of All Saints was also VERY strange and gentically impossible at times.

That is odd. I really liked that movie. I thought it was historically accurate, especially its highlighting the strong endogamous barrier between the "Coloured Creoles" and "Blacks" (those with slave ancestry). The movie's denoument, in fact, was the revelation that the main Coloured Creole character (who as an infant was rescued from the Haitian bloodletting) was actually of slave parentage.

The main complaint I have heard about the "genetics" of the casting was Robert Ri'chard's portrayal of a young man with medium skin tone, a visible mixture of African features, but kinky blonde hair and blue eyes. This combination is not unusual. In Puerto Rico, it is called "jabao." My son's father-in-law looked just like that as a young man. (His eyes are still blue but his hair is now gray.)

And Jennifer Beals did a magnificent job, as usual.

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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2005 14:04 
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Yes - my great grandfather looked like that too (Puerto Rican) - He was jabao

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Quote:
The main complaint I have heard about the "genetics" of the casting was Robert Ri'chard's portrayal of a young man with medium skin tone, a visible mixture of African features, but kinky blonde hair and blue eyes.


I admit I should have been more specific. This casting choice was my sole bone of contention.

Peter Gallagher and Gloria Reuben were supposed to be the parents of Robert Ri'chard.

I know anything is possible, but it just doesn't seem plausible to me...

Image

Image

Image(His hair was so obviously bleached in the film as we all know)

What I also found peculier was how Gloria's character was supposed to be 75% white (I believe, it's been a while since I've seen the film...) having Victoria Rowell as a mulatto mother and a white father.

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At least to me, they appear to be of identical type. From personal observation, most "quadroons" I've seen look more like Peter Gallagher. And whiter.

I have to agree that Jennifer Beals was perfectly cast and was excellent in her role.

IMO the media is still very uncomfortable portraying black/white -specificaly African-American/White - biracial people as sometimes having totally white appearances. Even when this is clearly the case. It's like a taboo to actually show it in film.


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2005 15:03 
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http://www.webcom.com/intvoice/sheine7.html

Susanne M.J. Heine wrote an editorial on Interracial Voice about this movie. I think she did an EXCELLENT job! I've always enjoyed reading her work on IV.

Politically Correct Revisionism:
Or why mixed-race heroes blacken over time
By Susanne M.J. Heine


Image

Here in Sweden where I live, I have access to many of the cable-TV stations that people in America can also tune in to. When I've finished my work for the day and feel like relaxing, I sometimes watch dramas on the Hallmark Channel. For the most part, Hallmark seems to strive for a very socially conscious -- though nevertheless entertaining -- policy when it comes to the material they present. With the exception of a few costly dogs (like their production of Cleopatra, which featured a stunning actress whose Valley accent and vapid schoolgirl pout somewhat diminished her credibility as the Empress of Egypt), their films tend to be morally uplifting, spiritually satisfying, and dramatically valid. They don't seem to shy away from controversial themes, and their frequent use of black actors and actresses in stories that deal with the "black experience" can only be commended.

Anyway, a few weeks ago I was happy to see that they were presenting a dramatisation of Anne Rice's novel, A Feast for All Saints. I have not read the novel myself, but the blurb in the TV program promised an intriguing piece of Americana -- the story of a mixed-race family in the city that the French called Nouvelle Orléans. At the time in which the story is set, New Orleans was still the jewel of the Louisiana Purchase, a bargain-basement deal that the USA pulled off neatly because Napoléonic France needed money for its war-emptied coffers.

I know a thing or two about those days (the early 1800s) -- things that I have picked up, as it were, along the way, my mother's people being from Charleston by way of Louisiana. (Charleston closely resembled New Orleans in its racial makeup.) One of the most unusual aspects (from an Anglo-Saxon point of view) of race relations under the French before Louisiana was sold to the United States, was the fact that the French saw the "civilising" of the blacks as one of their most important cultural missions. And not only the civilising of blacks, but the lightening of their colour through deliberate interbreeding. My own mother's people were "gens de couleur libres", in other words, "free coloured people", who, under the French, were seriously expected to be more capable of, and more disposed to, emulating their white betters by virtue of their relation -- by blood -- to them than pure blacks could be expected to be. In other words, they were "créoles". ("Créole" is a word that comes from the same root as "create"; thus, a créole is someone whom a master has created in his own image.)

The film featured some of our handsomest mixed-race stars (granted that there aren't that many of them; mixed-race seems to scare Hollywood off.) The cast included the exquisite Gloria Reuben (whose performances in ER we so enjoyed), the blindingly beautiful Jennifer Beals, and Pam Greer, who seems only to become more gorgeous with the years. (The first film I ever saw Ms Greer in was Fort Apache, the Bronx, where she played a strung-out, heroin-junkie hooker who blows two cops away in cold blood in the first scene of the movie. It occurred to me at the time that her performance was one of the best I've ever seen, and that with her serpentine grace and Native American good looks she was probably one of the five most beautiful women in Hollywood. She's a matron now, but by God, she still is beautiful.)

The bone I have to pick is with the casting of the lead character, who is played by a young actor called Robert Ri'chard. In the story, the business of "plaçage" is explored. Plaçage was the keeping of part-black mistresses by rich French plantation owners. These men often kept parallel families, one white, one black, paid all the coloured family's expenses and saw to it that they enjoyed a relatively comfortable life, but only on the condition that they never interfered with the "white" life of their patron.

For those who would argue the moral decrepitude of this arrangement, I can only say that it is part and parcel of French life as a whole, even to this day. The latest public figure known to have pursued this way of living was the late Prime Minister, Mitterand, whose parallel family came to light only after his death. In other words, plaçage has very little to do with race or colour; it is a common feature of French life at high levels, and something that the French inherited from the Roman legions that once dominated their world.

In "A Feast for All Saints", the main character is a young man whose mother is a high-yellow New Orleans woman kept by a Frenchman. The boy and his sister are supposed to be white enough to pass, and in the case of the actress chosen to play the girl, Nicole Lyn, this is so. However, on casting the boy, the producers chose a completely negroid-looking young actor, whose only claim to resembling a white man is his blue-green eyes, fair skin and kinky, lightish hair (which was obviously peroxided into a whole new dimension for the role). Now why or how a Mediterranean-looking Frenchman and a mixed-race woman with at least three-quarters French ancestry herself (both of the actors cast were altogether physically believable in their roles), neither of whom is either green-eyed or blond-haired, could give birth to a child with kinky blond hair, green eyes and a physical appearance far more African than his mother's, is a total mystery to me.

It's as if Hollywood (which is to say, "the entertainment powers that be") cannot get through their thick heads that an octoroon is -- dare I say it? -- white, for all intents and purposes. That's the whole damned point! Had they used a white-looking actor instead, the entire story would have been more focused, even more understandably cruel in a way. The young hero of the story is a white man, the son of a French aristocrat, whose tragedy is that he is denied the privileges that otherwise would have accrued to a man of his birth, because he is sullied by his mother's origins, her "black blood". Instead of focusing on that aspect of the tale, the producers of A Feast for All Saints chose to pander to a modern-day black audience by casting an obvious mulatto in the role. I would guess, having lived in Scandinavia for 38 years and seen his type many times before, that this young actor is the child of an African and a Scandinavian, or a couple who conform to those phenotypes. (Incidentally, one of the more interesting aspects of genetic research is that it has been found that Europeans and Africans are far more closely related to each other than either group is to yellow-skinned Asians [Chinese, Japanese and Koreans] who are descended from the very first group to leave Africa. It seems the forefathers of Europeans were among the last to leave; thus, blacks and whites share a number of very specialised genes -- among them, genes for blondness and light eyes -- even though these genes are more or less latent in Africans. That's why one can see first-generation mulatto children with these traits, whereas the same traits are extremely rare in the children of white-and-Asian unions.)

The young actor, whom I found quite bad -- given to petulant pouting and a delivery of lines that was incredibly uneven, pendulating between the period-language of the role and the up-to-date black street-dialect that he obviously speaks privately -- was totally unbelievable as the son of a French aristocrat. As he was portrayed, he was a "black" boy, which robbed the role of any dynamic it could have had, or any clue to the blatant absurdity of the racial dilemma that we are still in the throes of. All subtlety was abandoned.

My fellow IV contributor A.D. Powell has written at some length about the revisionism that seems to have overtaken "black" history over the last thirty years. As if overnight, people who were in fact quadroons and octoroons -- in other words, "mixed-race" people -- are being called "black" and made to decorate the pantheon of "black" heroes and heroines, regardless of whether that designation would have been applicable to them in their time or not. Thus, we have the spectacle of a quadroon ship's captain who was considered a "white" man in his day, being extolled as "one of the first black captains of a ship", when in fact, had he been considered "black", he would never have been assigned that commission. The same is true of the selfless Louisiana nun who sacrificed herself so completely during a time of plague; had she been considered "black", she would never have been allowed to take part in the contexts in which she figured so prominently. In the TV film of her life, she was played by Vanessa Williams, a beautiful woman, certainly, but hardly one who could be taken for "white".

In 1932, Standard Oil sent my uncle Edward, a corporate lawyer, to Venezuela to handle their business there. Edward, like my mother, was a quadroon, but he was extremely fair-complexioned with wavy blond hair, green eyes and decidedly European features. If we are to acquiesce to the current demands for political correctness, it can be said that he was the first "black" lawyer to be employed by Standard Oil, but that would, in fact, be an outright lie. Standard Oil had no idea that he was anything but just as lily-white as they themselves were. They sent him to Venezuela because he was fluent in Spanish, charming, elegant, well-versed and a damned good lawyer, not because they were trying to fill some kind of equal opportunity quota. The truth is that had they known that he had "negro blood" they would no more have sent him to represent them abroad than they would have sent Steppin Fetchit. We must bear in mind that the thirties were a time of some of the most turbulent, virulent race hatred that the American nation has ever suffered through. So in the film of my uncle's life, if I write the script, who will they get to play him? A fair-skinned but recognisably "black" actor? In that case, the whole story falls apart like a house of cards and becomes a complete non sequitur -- just like A Feast for All Saints.

Revisionism is devastating in its lack of respect for the times that it misrepresents; it reduces everything to politically correct, up-to-date, comic-book simplicity, when in fact a quite different and more complex reality obtained in the past. It's wrong of us to dismiss that reality, no matter how unpleasant or painful or incorrect we may find it. Take the quadroon captain, for example. Thanks to his more or less white face, his black blood obviously meant nothing in the light of his gifts as a navigator. But, had that black ancestry been more physically evident, it is unlikely that he would have been allowed to pursue his craft, except in a very subordinate role. Markin' on the twain!

What's wrong with reality? Why do we have to re-invent it to make it more palatable? Why do we have to re-write history in order to believe it? And why are the mixed-race heroes and heroines of America being co-opted into a context that they themselves never would have recognised, and which the mores -- that is to say, the customs and attitudes -- of their own times would never have made possible?


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PostPosted: Wed 14 Sep 2005 16:44 
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zsana wrote:
Peter Gallagher and Gloria Reuben were supposed to be the parents of Robert Ri'chard. I know anything is possible, but it just doesn't seem plausible to me...

I agree. The character's phenotype is not uncommon (although done with peroxide for the movie), but it is exceedingly unlikely to have sprung from Gallagher and Reuben.

zsana wrote:
What I also found peculier was how Gloria's character was supposed to be 75% white ... From personal observation, most "quadroons" I've seen look more like Peter Gallagher. And whiter.

I agree (as would the physical anthropologists who have studied the heredity of Afro-European mixture). Gloria Estefan (or even Heather Locklear or LeAnn Rimes with darker hair) would have been more genetically probable.

zsana wrote:
IMO the media is still very uncomfortable portraying black/white -specificaly African-American/White - biracial people as sometimes having totally white appearances. Even when this is clearly the case. It's like a taboo to actually show it in film.

It is odd, isn't it. Sometimes they do: recall Ava Gardner's role in the second "Showboat," the young actress in the Lana Turner version of "Imitiation of Life" and, of course, Tony Hopkins's role in "The Human Stain." And yet other times (most of the time, I suspect) they are utterly unreal. I recall an episode of ER where a Nordic mom with a mulatto husband gave birth to a kid as dark as the tar-baby in the original Joel Chandler Harris stories. I have come to suspect that most White Americans do not have the foggiest notion of real heredity.

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Last edited by fwsweet on Wed 14 Sep 2005 19:12, edited 1 time in total.

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fwsweet wrote:
zsana wrote:
IMO the media is still very uncomfortable portraying black/white -specificaly African-American/White - biracial people as sometimes having totally white appearances. Even when this is clearly the case. It's like a taboo to actually show it in film.

It is odd, isn't it. Sometimes they do: recall Ava Gardner's role in the second "Showboat," the young actress in the Lana Turner version of "Imitiation of Life" and, of course, Tony Hopkins's role in "The Human Stain." And yet other times (most of the time, I suspect) they are utterly unreal. I recall an episode of ER where a Nordic mom with a mulatto husband gave birth to a kid as dark as the tar-baby in the original Joel Chandler Harris stories. I have come to suspect that most White Americans do not have the foggiest notion of real heredity.


It's sort of like in the movie Roots when they casted Ben Vereen as the son of Chuck Connors and his slave mistress. Since I haven't seen this since 1977, I cannot remember who was casted to play the mistress, but I can bet you she was not a pure African. But it all plays into the One Drop mentality what many Americans are trained to have. I had a hard time with that part of the movie because of the way I was trained to think. It was during that part when I learned that my grandmothers father was white, but she looked white herself. But I think they were trying to enforce the notion into people that if you mix with a "black", the kid will always be "black", so don't do it. Particularly white women. That's my take at least.


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The actress's name that played Kizzy is Leslie Uggams
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Chuck Connors played the slavemaster who raped her.

Here's Ben Vereen, the actor casted to be their son
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Thanks mixedmom!!! I could see the Leslies picture in my head but couldn't think of her name.


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My husband Grahame and our beautiful and talented daughter Danielle. A proud night hearing and watching Danielle debut, which was at 88's. She was awesome.

http://www.leslieuggams.com


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Does anyone remember when Sidney Poitier was cast as Thurgood Marshall in the movie Seprate But Equal (1991)?
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Now this was casting at it's worst. Mr. Poitier is an excellent, well respected actor. But he bares NO resemblance what so ever to the late great Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall.
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 Post subject: Feast of All Saints
PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2005 00:27 
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fwsweet wrote:
zsana wrote:
The casting in Feast of All Saints was also VERY strange and gentically impossible at times.

That is odd. I really liked that movie. I thought it was historically accurate, especially its highlighting the strong endogamous barrier between the "Coloured Creoles" and "Blacks" (those with slave ancestry). The movie's denoument, in fact, was the revelation that the main Coloured Creole character (who as an infant was rescued from the Haitian bloodletting) was actually of slave parentage.

The main complaint I have heard about the "genetics" of the casting was Robert Ri'chard's portrayal of a young man with medium skin tone, a visible mixture of African features, but kinky blonde hair and blue eyes. This combination is not unusual. In Puerto Rico, it is called "jabao." My son's father-in-law looked just like that as a young man. (His eyes are still blue but his hair is now gray.)

And Jennifer Beals did a magnificent job, as usual.


I liked the movie too. However, I thought some of the characters were miscast, for in Ann Rice book, Cecile Ste. Marie was dark-skinned with European features and that she was just half-black as opposed to a quarter black. Gloria, who played Cecile Ste. Marie, has light skin with African features. Tracy Bingham, Shar Jackson or my favorite, Chilli of TLC would have been perfect cast for the Cecile character.

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Annabella Monroe character was also miscasted, for she was described in the book as light colored with broad features. Gloria Reuben or Faith Evans could have played Anna Bella Monroe instead of Bianca Lawson from "Save the Last Dance."

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Do you think Vin Diesel should have been cast as Marcel instead of Robert Richard?

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As for Jennifer Beals' character, it was superb and was perfectly cast.

My two cents,


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 Post subject: Hollywood casting versus interracial heredity
PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2005 22:34 
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Frank wrote:

Quote:
It is odd, isn't it. Sometimes they do: recall Ava Gardner's role in the second "Showboat," the young actress in the Lana Turner version of "Imitiation of Life" and, of course, Tony Hopkins's role in "The Human Stain." And yet other times (most of the time, I suspect) they are utterly unreal. I recall an episode of ER where a Nordic mom with a mulatto husband gave birth to a kid as dark as the tar-baby in the original Joel Chandler Harris stories. I have come to suspect that most White Americans do not have the foggiest notion of real heredity.


I have noticed that a character known to have "black blood" is almost always played by a black or dark mulatto (even if the person was as white as Dr. Daniel Hale Williams) UNLESS the script calls for the person to "pass as white."

Look at this actor, Harry Lennix, who was hired to play the very white Adam Clayton Powell, Jr:


http://www.reelimagesmagazine.com/txt_features/conversations/reel_conversation__harry_lennix.htm


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 Post subject: Maxwell's myth of the "light-skinned black"
PostPosted: Thu 15 Sep 2005 23:09 
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Notice that Maxwell never defines "light-skinned." Compared to what? Are we talking Gregory Howard Williams or slightly lighter than Maxwell himself?

By BILL MAXWELL, Times Staff Writer
© St. Petersburg Times
published August 31, 2003

Each year, the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission receives about 85,000 discrimination cases, a phenomenon to be expected in a society that touts itself as a "melting pot."

Many of these cases involve the complaints of minority groups against majority groups. We rarely expect a member of a minority group to discriminate against someone else in the same group. But that is exactly what happens among African-Americans.

More than any other minority group in the United States, blacks discriminate against one another. The discrimination, called "colorism," is based on skin tone: whether a person is dark-skinned or light-skinned or in the broad middle somewhere.

First, we don't know how many of these people he accuses are not black at all. The Southern "Mulatto Elite" were and are far closer to whites in culture (and often looks) than blacks. When a forced marriage is this unhappy, an ethnic divorce is the best solution. Then neither blacks, mulattoes nor the various layers of government would get so confused. I would also point out that plenty of legitimate ethnic groups (as opposed to the legacy of the "Negro" caste) discriminate on the basis of phenotype (which Maxwell simplifies as skin color alone, e.g., American Indians, South Asians. Latinos, etc.).

Most African-Americans refuse to discuss this self-destructive problem even in private. According to the EEOC, though, the number of such cases are steadily increasing, jumping from 413 in fiscal year 1994 to 1,382 in 2002, a figure that represents about 3 percent of all cases the agency receives yearly.

The most recent case making news in the black press involves two employees of an Applebee's restaurant in Jonesboro, Ga., near Atlanta. There, Dwight Burch, a dark-skinned waiter, who has left the restaurant, filed a lawsuit against Applebee's and his light-skinned African-American manager.

In the suit, Burch alleged that during his three-month stint, the manager repeatedly referred to him as a "black monkey" and a "tar baby." The manager also told Burch to bleach his skin, and Burch was fired after he refused to do so, the suit states.

How much of the manager's behavior is due to the common belief among "blacks" (and many liberal "whites") that courtesy and restraining one's bigotry in public are required of "whites" but not "blacks"? Almost any "interracial" couple can tell you that's the case.

Colorism has a long and ugly history among American blacks, dating back to slavery, when light-skinned blacks were automatically given preferential treatment by plantation owners and their henchmen.

Colorism's history is fascinating: Fair-skinned slaves automatically enjoyed plum jobs in the master's house, if they had to work at all. Many traveled throughout the nation and abroad with their masters and their families. They were exposed to the finer things, and many became educated as a result. Their darker-tone peers toiled in the fields. They were the ones who were beaten, burned and hanged, the ones permanently condemned to be the lowest of the low in U.S. society. For them, even learning - reading, 'riting, 'rithmetic - was illegal.


Maxwell cites common "one drop" mythology. Those evil white racists decided to treat mixed-race people better as part of a plot to weaken "blacks," not because it is normal to treat one's children (the mixed-race) better than folks who are not your kin. Maxwell also pretends that all mixed-race folks were just privileged slaves. The fact that the "free colored" population was at least 75% "mulatto" is not mentioned. Of course, when it is time to claim credit for their accomplishments, these mulattoes and quadroons and mixed whites are transformed into "free blacks."

When slavery ended, light-skinned blacks established social organizations that barred darker ex-slaves. Elite blacks of the early 20th century were fair-skinned almost to the person. Even today, most blacks in high positions have fair skin tones, and most blacks who do menial jobs or are in prison are dark. Believe it or not, popular black magazines, such as Ebony as Essence, prefer light-skinned models in their beauty product ads.

Golly, could it be that those people were not "black" at all and were trying to tell you so?

For many years, entrance to special social events operated on the "brown paper bag" principle, which I will explain. Until quite recently, black fraternities and sororities, for example, recruited according to skin tone. Spike Lee's film School Daze satirizes the problem, and Alice Walker's novel The Color Purple makes it a biting subtext.

In his 1996 book The Future of the Race, Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the Afro-American studies department at Harvard, described his encounter with the brown paper bag when he came to Yale in the late 1960s, when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced: "Some of the brothers who came from New Orleans held a "bag party.' As a classmate explained it to me, a bag party was a New Orleans custom wherein a brown paper bag was stuck on the door.

"Anyone darker than the bag was denied entrance. That was one cultural legacy that would be put to rest in a hurry - we all made sure of that. But in a manner of speaking, it was replaced by an opposite test whereby those who were deemed "not black enough' ideologically were to be shunned. I was not sure this was an improvement."

While mulattoes and mixed whites had a right to their private clubs, just like any other group, I have not seen any historical documentation of a "paper bag" test. I classify it as a myth. Membership was probably decided in a "Latin" way - You needed more money and professional status if you were on the darker end of the spectrum and less if you were on the lighter end. Maxwell's example is only a fraternity prank based on the myth.

Gates was overly optimistic. The brown paper bag test remains in black culture in various incarnations, as the Applebee's case and the EEOC's statistics confirm. We separate ourselves by skin tone almost as much as we ever did. If, say, you check out the "desired" female beauties in rap videos, you will find redbones galore.

Then don't classify those "redbones" as "black" and you will give the real black beauties a chance - if you REALLY want to!

Back to the Applebee's case. A spokesman for the chain issued this statement: "No one should have to put up with mean and humiliating comments about the color of their skin on the job. . . . It makes no difference that these comments are made by someone of your own race. Actually, that makes it even worse." Although the chain denied the allegations, it paid Burch $40,000 to settle the suit.

Now for the irony of ironies: Applebee's has added a protection, along with cultural sensitivity training, against skin-tone discrimination to its antidiscrimination policies.

Irony? Where has this fool been? American discrimination law forbids discrimination on the basis of "race" AND "color." It was well known that these contradictions could occur. Latinos would be a good example. The 20th century practice was to classify all of them as "white" regardless of skin color.

In other words, the company must protect African-Americans from other African-Americans.

Discrimination from whites and other groups remains a big problem for blacks. But colorism is just as serious, if not more so. Colorism saps our strength from the inside. It weakens our power and ability to fight the outside forces that keep us marginalized in larger society.

What weakens your power, Maxwell, is your devotion to the myth that your "race" needs to forcibly claim the descendants of your alleged "enemy" in order to succeed. Stop classifying nonblacks as "black," and they can no longer be used to discrminate against you in your own category.


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 Post subject: Re: The paper bag test
PostPosted: Sat 15 Oct 2005 07:25 
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Felicia, quoting Bill Maxwell, St. Petersburg Times staff writer wrote:
Henry Louis Gates Jr., chairman of the Afro-American studies department at Harvard, described his encounter with the brown paper bag when he came to Yale in the late 1960s, when skin-tone bias was brazenly practiced: "Some of the brothers who came from New Orleans held a "bag party.' As a classmate explained it to me, a bag party was a New Orleans custom wherein a brown paper bag was stuck on the door.

"Anyone darker than the bag was denied entrance. That was one cultural legacy that would be put to rest in a hurry - we all made sure of that. But in a manner of speaking, it was replaced by an opposite test whereby those who were deemed "not black enough' ideologically were to be shunned. I was not sure this was an improvement."


If the minority identity civil rights establishment in this country worked for racial justice -- disassembling the pseudo-scientific "subspecies, races" folly instead of enriching race-hustlers, which is all that it does -- effective, beneficial things might be done. One of these, I suggest, is substituting straight "color," or phenotype, for the recursive metaphysical abstraction of "blood race." It would come down to paper bag-style criterion -- basically that which offended H.L. Gates, Jr., in his student days at Yale.

"Profiling" and the rest of racial discrimination are visually motivated, usually. This actual focus of racism is the rational nexus for correction. Provisions of civil rights law sanction discrimination based on "looks," "color." Offender-victim genealogies, their "blood"-proportions, are not elements of enforcement actions. By contrast, persons' description is objective, fact. Racial appearance is scant basis of State interest. But it is the only empirical, true basis for government involvement with the folk-"science" of taxonomic "races."

Whether a "paper bag test" ever was imposed exactly has been questioned. Its functional equivalent class snobbery may have been common long ago when signs hung over drinking fountains. (I witnessed these sign "color tests.") Professor Gates made known (above) his commendable disdain for tests of "brown bag" and also "not black enough; for both of them. He took umbrage at "colorism" practiced within the insular Negro community. But who is outraged at "colorism" defining alleged evolutionary cleavage of our human species in "colored races"? How is a simple, empirical "paper bag test" more offensive than our Government-run cosmological "taxonomy" proclaiming "pure whiteness"? Where is Professor Gates's wroth toward institutionalizing immutable "black essentialism" capable of transcending any "white" phenotype (the ODR)? Is government classifying all individuals in "different blood races" not infinitely more offensive than holding up a paper bag to swarthy skin? Why doesn't Learned Professor Gates take umbrage at the Mother of All Color-Tests? Where is his protest of this cosmic sack?

Time has come, I think, to withdraw the legal fiction of "white" people being ODR victims of racism equally as the obviously "black." Henry Louis Gates, Jr., may still not like it. The objective "paper bag test" would ignore the ODR. Potentially it might liberate "black" people from the regime of oxymoronic "light skinned blacks" (incl. Gates) who live white privilege and claim black entitlement. Nonetheless, I think directing justice to demonstrable facts, sticking to practical ends, is far better than our over-long, historical will-o'-the-wisp-chasing "breeder-lot" abstractions of racial "blood" sub-humanization. A simple "paper bag test" might even start civil rights inching forward again.
George


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat 15 Oct 2005 08:16 
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You're missing the point about Hollywood casting. A film is not reality. If that were the case, Jesus would never be blonde and blue-eyed. Movies are cast not for realism but most often for artistic and financial reasons.

Harry Lennix played Powell because he was bankable and was obviously mixed-race but bankability counts. Also, who do you think championed the movie's production? Lennix. Sydney Poitier played Thurgood Marshall because he's SYDNEY POITIER, a legendary, bankable film star. To get a film made is often a Herculean task, requiring known names. Did Martin Sheen resemble JFK enough to play him? How often have you seen a movie about Napolean Bonaparte in which he spoke English with a French accent? Pretty funny considering he was Corsican and was teased for Corsican accented French.

Similarly, look at Hollywood's presentations of Ghengis Khan, a Mongol (an Asian), played most often by Caucasians. And how about Charleton Heston as Moses! Yep, tall, blue-eyed Heston played a pre-Exodus Jew. Why stop there. How about Woody Allen's and Friends' versions of nearly all white New York.

On the other hand, film is a work of art. If a director is making art, she is not going to cast a film for realism as much as symbolism. An artist who's trying to make a statement might cast actors who represent an idea.

Let's think about Pocahontas and John Smith. Disney had a wonderful animated film that purported to show the love between these two characters. Except in real life Pocahontas married someone else, and, by the way, she was a pre-teen (around 11 or 12) when she met Smith. Audiences wouldn't react too well to a pre-teen dating a 20- or 30-something man.

How often does Hollywood cast Northern Europeans to play ancient Romans? Have you watched HBO's Rome? The cast is all British, with nary a Roman nose or swarthy skin to be seen.

As for a paper bag test, a look at the pictures of the members of the Congressional Black Caucus reveals a very multi-hued collection of people. http://www.congressionalblackcaucus.net/


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